RE: CD ScaleDesigns Sopwith Snipe build  
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RE: CD ScaleDesigns Sopwith Snipe build - 10/29/2006 8:16:22 AM   
CTDavies



Posts: 266
Joined: 9/1/2003
From: Weeze, GERMANY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: abufletcher

Here's a step I couldn't wait to do! Last night, I added the front firewall formers so I can finally see how my cowl is going to fit. As you can see from the pencil line in the photo my cowl's diameter (18cm pot) is just slightly smaller than the firewall, about 2mm smaller around the edges. While I would have loved for it to be a perfect fit (actually the pot I made my Nieuport cowl out of IS a perfect fit but not curved enough), I doubt anyone will notice the !QUOT!non-scale!QUOT! diameter. Obviously I'll need to be making some minor changes to the other side formers as well.



Hi Abu,
is the pencil line the outside or inside diameter of you cowling? Please not that you will also be adding your ply side sheeting to the front part of the fuselage sides as well. But you're right; the difference in diameter should be hardly noticeable. So far your fuselage looks great. This goes to show my theory once again; model designs must be tried and tested, before you start cranking out kits and spending on advertising. I'm grateful for this opportunity.

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       Post #: 101

RE: CD ScaleDesigns Sopwith Snipe build - 10/29/2006 8:35:57 AM   
CTDavies



Posts: 266
Joined: 9/1/2003
From: Weeze, GERMANY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: abufletcher

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mode One
1/5th scale WW1 birds can use normal radios and .90/1.20 4 stroke sized engines. They're bigger, present better and in all likelihood fly better.


Actually I entirely agree, there's no serious different in cost or transportability between 1/6 and...um...!QUOT!2/10th!QUOT! scale.

Maybe Chris could weigh in here on the work (additional costs?) involved in scaling a kit like this.


We would love to do 1/5th versions of all our biplanes as well, but don't have the time for so many ongoing projects. Upscaling a 1/6th design to a 1/5th scale, can be done without changing too much of the design, so we'll surely do it eventually, but we don't know when. Maybe next year, maybe the year after.
1/4th scale is a different number; this would a) mean more changes, that might come close to a complete re-design, as you're looking at the feasibility of scale wing profiles, more formers, more scale landing gear and strut attachments etc, and b) there are so many excellent 1/4th scale designs already out there, we don't really want to add ours to an already great selection.

_____________________________

"there is no Dark Side of the Moon really,
as a matter of fact it's all dark"

(in reply to abufletcher)
       Post #: 102

RE: CD ScaleDesigns Sopwith Snipe build - 10/29/2006 8:52:24 AM   
CTDavies



Posts: 266
Joined: 9/1/2003
From: Weeze, GERMANY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: abufletcher

You know, thinking about it, I may not have to cut down the firewall at all. Since I'm going to be make a cut out on the bottom of the cowl, I can probably "stretch" the cowl out those extra couple of mm's. Given the downward slope of this bottom cut out and the shape of the top cowling, I doubt anyone would notice any distortion that might result.

Also, I need to take the size added by the 1mm side sheeting (ply) into account here.


Ah, you've already thought about your 1mm ply sheeting. I think cutting the cowl will be your best option, as the difference in diameter is only very small.

_____________________________

"there is no Dark Side of the Moon really,
as a matter of fact it's all dark"

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       Post #: 103

RE: CD ScaleDesigns Sopwith Snipe build - 10/29/2006 10:30:20 AM   
abufletcher



Posts: 5177
Joined: 2/13/2004
From: Zentsuji, JAPAN
Status: offline 		As I was out and around today I looked hard at some of the 20cm pots. As is, the firewall measures 18.3cm and if you add 2mm for the sheeting and another say, 1mm for glue (or whatever) that still brings it to only 18.6cm. So the choice would be either to go with the 18cm pot/cowl and be 6mm too small or the 20cm size pot and be 14mm+ too large.

The photo below shows my 18cm "pot" inside the cowl I made for my Nieuport inside of one 20cm pot. The Nieuport pot is almost exactly the right size (it was also officially a 18cm pot) and made of substantial 1.8mm aluminum. My just slightly smaller cowl is made of 0.7mm aluminum.

And Chris, I'd say that even though we've found some discrepancies, these have all been things the averagely skilled builder (like me) could handle and your kit is still considerably better and much more scale than any other sports scale WWI kits currently available. In my opinion, the BUSA and Flair kits aren't even in the same race.

Note: I'm trying to be as picky as possible so as to help you produce the best possible kit. I think we're getting there!



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< Message edited by abufletcher -- 10/30/2006 10:32:35 AM >

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       Post #: 104

RE: CD ScaleDesigns Sopwith Snipe build - 10/30/2006 8:07:57 AM   
abufletcher



Posts: 5177
Joined: 2/13/2004
From: Zentsuji, JAPAN
Status: offline 		A bit more work today. First I cut the remaining three slotted hardwood beams. They are not all the same length so check the plans carefully. The two botttom beams are the same but the forward cabane wire beam and the rear wire beam are slightly different. I took the measurements off the cross-section views (F1 and F4) -- not the fuse top view. I haven't glued these in place yet.

Then I added the forward side formers (F2b-F4b). This is pretty much of a no-brainer but still it's good to make sure they are positioned correctly and at 90 degrees.

I'm going to have to give some thought to the sheeting and if/how I will need to trim the formers to fit my cowl size.

Finally, I put together and tried out the cabane strut soldering rig that the kit provides. This holds the two 3mm pre-bent wires in place while 1mm cross-bracing wires (simulating rigging) are soldered in place. This creates a strong, stable support for the top wing. Later on the wires will be covered with wood (and possibly paper).

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< Message edited by abufletcher -- 10/30/2006 9:10:16 AM >

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       Post #: 105

RE: CD ScaleDesigns Sopwith Snipe build - 10/30/2006 12:50:10 PM   
abufletcher



Posts: 5177
Joined: 2/13/2004
From: Zentsuji, JAPAN
Status: offline 		Now seemed like a good time to look carefully at how the panels on the original Snipe were arranged. I'd like to be duplicating (or simulating) this to the greatest degree possible as it's one of the most distinctive features of this aircraft.

The drawing shows the different panels, their material, and how they overlap one another. The rear side panel and the decking on the sides and aft of the cockpit were ply. It's unclear from the photos if the top decking overlapped the side ply panel. Period photos show a slight ridge here that is either the overlap or (and I think this is more likely) a kind of thin molding that covered the seam. This cockpit decking only went a bit forward the rear cabane strut and did not completely encircle the cockpit.

The trapazoidal metal inspection panel in the middle overlapped the non-removable metal panel below it. This inspection panel slotted into a gutter riveted to the cowl and was bolted (?) to the ply on the aft edge. The top cowling (metal, removeable) was complexly shaped -- and will no doubt be tricky to model (Chris is eventually planning a vacuum formed part). It took the "hump" of the Camel one step further and covered even more of the Vickers guns. Like the side panel, the top cowling also slotted into a gutter on the cowl. It overlaps the very top of the side panel as well as the cockpit decking. One further complication is that on production models the rear of the cowling was asymetrical. The left side formed what appears to be a vertical line at the rear cabane strut while the right was was curved to allow the typical full cockpit cutout. It is unclear why this was done this way, but one can assume it had something to do with the fact that most pilots would have been right-handed!

Some photos of some aircraft show a further small long rectangular panel that enclosed the cabane struts (more or less extending the cockpit decking).

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< Message edited by abufletcher -- 10/30/2006 1:30:04 PM >

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       Post #: 106

RE: CD ScaleDesigns Sopwith Snipe build - 10/30/2006 1:11:50 PM   
abufletcher



Posts: 5177
Joined: 2/13/2004
From: Zentsuji, JAPAN
Status: offline 		I should mention that my "building philosophy" here is not to just "put together a kit." I don't believe any serious builder wants to just do a stock, build-by-number model. Rather I've always tried to think of a kit as a starting point. The better the kit the further you can take it. When I look at Chris' kit, I see the potential to scale it to my hearts desire (or at least my modeling abilities). In terms of the basic structure, this is all Chris' kit (or will be).

One small detail, by way of example, that I'll be adding to the fuse at this stage will be small rectangles of balsa that will support the metal frames for the semi-circular footsteps. One looks like it was located between the 3rd and 4th stringers just aft of the F5 former and the other at the base of the fuse just behind the wing (a bit aft of F6 on this model).

Another nice thing about Chris' design is that it allows for a "full depth" cockpit -- though former F4 (only across the lower half) will effectively cut the pilot off at the knees. But given how tight and crowded the Snipe cockpit was, I don't expect this to be a visual problem.

As you can see here the formers on this kit align quite nicely with the scale panels so it should be easy getting them the right spots.

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< Message edited by abufletcher -- 10/30/2006 5:25:11 PM >

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RE: CD ScaleDesigns Sopwith Snipe build - 10/30/2006 3:19:39 PM   
abufletcher



Posts: 5177
Joined: 2/13/2004
From: Zentsuji, JAPAN
Status: offline 		Just noticed my first "oops" moments on this build (I'm sure there's lot to come). In CAing the side formers in place some CA has inadvertently dripped down into the area of the bottom hardwood beam and the forward wing tube (which I had temporarily had in place. Luckily the hardwood beam is in the right place but the wing tube is just marginally out of place! Argh!!!

Guess it's time to see if the CA debonder I bought this summer actually works.

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       Post #: 108

RE: CD ScaleDesigns Sopwith Snipe build - 10/30/2006 3:26:52 PM   
abufletcher



Posts: 5177
Joined: 2/13/2004
From: Zentsuji, JAPAN
Status: offline 		Nope. That's there to stay. Actually, in a "glass-is-half-full" sort of way, this can be thought of as a good thing. For one, I now don't have to worry about bothering to stitch and epoxy this tube to the right side of F3. It's ROCK solid with just the CA. Second, it looks like I'll be taking Chris' lead on his Pup and just cutting off the part of the tube that extends over the tank bay. All the tube really does is provide an anchor point for the music wire that passes between the two wings.

On one side about 1/4" is sticking out which I can easily cut down to the 1mm or so it's supposed to be. The other side got pushed flush with the 6mm balsa so it's technically 1mm too short (it should go through the thin ply wing root support. But I'm sure this won't cause any problems.

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       Post #: 109

RE: CD ScaleDesigns Sopwith Snipe build - 10/30/2006 3:51:24 PM   
abufletcher



Posts: 5177
Joined: 2/13/2004
From: Zentsuji, JAPAN
Status: offline 		FUN WITH BAMBOO (#853 and 854):

Thin bamboo dowel (available everywhere in Japan) very nicely simulates the cross-bracing in the cockpit area (previously there was a single 1/8" x 1/4" balsa diagonal. If anything it's now stronger. Eventually it'll get painted a dark metalic color.

Also just as a test I replaced the rearmost diagonals with bamboo pieces. If there were any showthrough whatsoever in the covering I'd do them all like this (with cross bracing) but with PC10 I needn't bother.



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RE: CD ScaleDesigns Sopwith Snipe build - 10/30/2006 4:53:34 PM   
Reg Hinnant



Posts: 297
Joined: 7/1/2002
From: Corpus Christi, TX, USA
Status: offline 		Hey Don, Very nice build!
Lou Proctor included bamboo dowels that were used for cross bracing in the fuselage & wing of his Antic kit. He advised using "Duco" brand model cement because it shrinks when it cures, effectively tightening the bracing. They were very effective in achieving a strong structure. He also used split bamboo, heated to form the curves of the tail leading & trailing edges for a strong, ding proof edge.
Reg

< Message edited by Reg Hinnant -- 10/30/2006 4:55:22 PM >

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