RE: Starting the BPA

RE: Starting the BPA
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RE: Starting the BPA - 10/13/2006 4:06:46 PM

roncoleman

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Mike what do you mean by " 3 pattern within each "?

Why not do four classes Novice, Sportsman, Expert, and Masters? Engine size
limit, cutoff year for aircraft and No Pipes for Novice, Engine size limit and cutoff
year for aircraft for Sportsman. Aircraft size limit for Expert and anything goes
for Masters

Ron

< Message edited by roncoleman -- 10/13/2006 4:08:39 PM >

(in reply to MHester)

Post #: 51

RE: Starting the BPA - 10/13/2006 4:15:25 PM

MHester

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Absolutely positively pipes required in novice!!!!!!!! In fact I suggest a radar gun and if the novice's plane doesn't break 140 mph, they're disqualified!LOL

Too many rules. This should be about pattern, speed, cool planes and fun. Not hamstringing a guy due to a bank account issue.

-M

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Post #: 52

RE: Starting the BPA - 10/13/2006 4:17:21 PM

MHester

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I was joking in my previous post.

I like 3 in each, 2 classes. That's already breaking people into 6 groups. if participation is staggering, maybe we could add a 4th class within.

-Mike

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(in reply to MHester)

Post #: 53

RE: Starting the BPA - 10/13/2006 4:26:57 PM

MHester

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by the way, in case you're all wondering where the name came from and how far back this idea goes, click this link and check the dates

I never thought that term would catch on like it has....hehe.

-Mike

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Post #: 54

RE: Starting the BPA - 10/13/2006 4:44:58 PM

grcourtney

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From: huntsville, AL, USA
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quote:

Why August? It is too stinking hot to breathe in August. September or October would be better.

aug is when my field has an open date no more than one event closing the field per month, aug is after the ama nats which a majority of the people that have committed to fly at my fields contest will be flying in, aug gives those that say they want to fly a chance to get something together, steve byrum held a couple of spa events with a open class and there were only a few takers that showed to fly maybe there wasn't sufficient warning for people, maybe people talk the talk but don't walk the walk another reason for not limiting ourselves right out of business the more that show the regardless of variation in engine and wing size (within reason) the better, aug is when real pattern pilots like to fly. lol. aug,aug, aug,aug,aug,augaug,aug,aug!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

but if someone else has a earlier date in mind at there field i am willing to listen

gary

(in reply to MHester)

Post #: 55

RE: Starting the BPA - 10/13/2006 4:47:56 PM

Deadstik

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No question.. retracts are mandatory.....I'm good w/the 72" limit...what about banning tail draggers????? LOL

Dan

Carolina Custom Aircraft

(in reply to MHester)

Post #: 56

RE: Starting the BPA - 10/13/2006 4:57:47 PM

roncoleman

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Okay, I'm online with you now. I don't konw about todays fliers but if
I remember correctly back in the 70's & 80's most of your pattern fliers
were in the two lower classes and then the numbers dropped off in the
upper class. So maybe the expert class should be dropped. I think you
would get a better showing of fliers if the BPA is kept simple at first.

Ron

(in reply to MHester)

Post #: 57

RE: Starting the BPA - 10/13/2006 5:16:46 PM

MHester

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Ron......heads up......

I know for a fact that Joe Walker, Ryan McLaughlin and....Jason Shulman are interested in this. No BS, they'll do it. SPA just dodged one heck of a bullet and they don't even know it LOL These guys are top level FAI pattern competitors. Some of the rest of us aren't too shabby either. Not near thier level, but we can fly a bit. Not trying to be condescending, but these guys actually compete regularly....and they're young, and can freakin flat out FLY.....and they need a top class. I for one know how bad Joe would kick my tail, because he's flown ballistic style up until like....this year. And it has always worked for him, nobody does it better. That doesn't mean I won't have fun TRYING to beat him!!!!

My thought is just to make it pretty wide open so we attract all of the people and planes who for whatever reason have been left out of AMA and SPA competition because the planes they really like to fly won't work in either.

I'm lucky I guess, I love both. My priority is AMA pattern, for many reasons. It's feeding my kids right now, and thanks to the great guys in AMA pattern, and I do mean the best guys in the world, we're doing better than we have in quite some time. But I for one would love this as a break. I really wanted to do SPA for years, but just simply put, I can't get behind the rules. They are too strict in my personal opinion, and to exclusive. I am a creative person. I am looking for an outlet that doesn't add stress. this looks like that outlet. just what the doctor ordered, and that is probably more of a literal sense than you know.

Guys, this is it. Look at that link I posted, and note the dates. The iron was hot and we let it die on the vine. The time to do this is now, because we have active, traveling competitors involved. I for one look forward to the first contests, and the first empty green bottles over this one!

-Mike

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Post #: 58

RE: Starting the BPA - 10/13/2006 5:32:46 PM

rainedave

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From: Greensboro, NC, USA
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"Celebrities" (I know, a relative word) do draw attention. That could only be a good thing for a fledgling org.

(in reply to MHester)

Post #: 59

RE: Starting the BPA - 10/13/2006 5:44:58 PM

jquid

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From: st. charles, IL, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: jjpetro

Looks as if there are plenty of ideas. The BPA looks like it can be an awesome conduit for preserving more or of the classic planes and flying characteristics those of us in this forum desire.

It appears someone (jquid?) needs to bring this thing to consensus. Perhaps scan the posts, try to draw up a "constitution" and put it out for general vote, and go with the majority? Another question to consider, the VR/CS and SPA are "specialty groups" within the AMA. Will this group be the same? If so, is there a need to check any governing criteria from the AMA? I'm just "thinking out loud".

I think it is a great idea and I will join when it comes to fruition. In the past few months I have been researching appealing ballistic planes to kit. I hope to have one worthy of this group in the next year.

For what it is worth, I favor the cap on a .61 and 70"-72" spans. As noted earlier, we should probably make considerations for electrics. There have been a few electrics flying pattern in the SPA and they appear to be holding their own.

Hi Everyone,

What I want is to try to get everyones ideas on how this should be formed. I do not want to just make up some rules that will resrtict others from flying. There are places for people to fly within the SPA, as well as current modern airframes. I was hoping to get people who wanted to fly older designs but not limit or exclude people that have already been excluded. Example: If you had to put in .91 4S in your Curare and make it fixed gear to compete, you are sort of excluded from building it as originally designed. But here you could build it with retracts, a pipe, and whatever power you wanted to. Now could you compete with your Curare 4S fixed? Sure why not. maybe you fit into the Masters class or something. Not 100% sure, but this is sort of a club by the people, for the people thing. I have read all of the posts, and there is some really good discussions going on and a great framework being developed. I do not want to set rules or classes too early, as we may not take into account all opinions.

The other thing is not sure if we wanted to do something within the AMA or if we have to. Say we come up with a bunch of memebers, and want to hold contests, does anyone know if we need any paperwork? I really didn't expect this sort of turnout, but I am glad people are being friendly, enthusiastic, and having a good time developing this!

(in reply to jjpetro)

Post #: 60

RE: Starting the BPA - 10/13/2006 6:30:28 PM

MHester

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it would have to be sanctioned as a fun fly event, low priority. It is not an AMA rulebook event. We would be, for all intents and purposes, a special interest group.

I think the framework we have laid out is a great place to start. Any objections?

We're talking 2 classes, 3 schedules of difficulty in each. One is for classic planes like Tipos etc, the other is for the planes from the early-mid 80s to the 72" turnaround designs, 1.20 size limit, anything goes. And this is just a loose reference.

What I'd like to see is right now, pick it apart, find the flaws so we can ajust before we rule ourselves into a hole with unintended consequences. Being a competition by nature, we have to have some rules, I'd just like to see them kept extremely general.

I hope I'm not stepping on anyone's toes, just been rolling this one in my head for almost 5 years so now I'm excited

-Mike

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(in reply to jquid)

Post #: 61

RE: Starting the BPA - 10/13/2006 6:36:10 PM

MHester

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Also, I'd like to add that if there is enough interest, I'd be willing to produce some nice CNC kits of a few of these planes. Cores, composites, the whole works.

And don't worry, I would NEVER infringe on someone else's intellectual property. (There's a joke in there somewhere?) I'd just need some assistance in getting permission. Just the stuff you can't get anymore.

or maybe not. I'll probably do it for myself though, just because.....well, I can and it would save me a lot of time....

-Mike

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Post #: 62

RE: Starting the BPA - 10/13/2006 6:49:52 PM

stiletto660

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Why don't we have just one class instead of two? You could fly the "Tipos" against the "Desires" with this style of flying. It would greatly reduce the complexity when starting this organization. The diversity within the same class is what's going to make it so interesting (and surreal).

(in reply to MHester)

Post #: 63

RE: Starting the BPA - 10/13/2006 6:56:19 PM

MHester

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The way I proposed it, a tipo would be perfectly legal in the unlimited class, but a jekyll would not be legal in the classic class. That way those who wanted to fly thier classic planes against the more modern designs could, but those who wanted to keep to the old "classic" speed style would not be forced to fly against a Jekyll with a YS 120. Everybody wins.

That's the way I see it. I plan to compete in both classes.

-Mike

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(in reply to stiletto660)

Post #: 64

RE: Starting the BPA - 10/13/2006 7:03:05 PM

rainedave

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