RE: SIG 1/4 Piper J-3 Cub -> PA-18 Super Cub conversion build  
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RE: SIG 1/4 Piper J-3 Cub -> PA-18 Super Cub convers... - 11/20/2006 3:25 PM   
HHjul


 

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Status: offline 		All right! Looks good!

About the tail feathers, there is one EXCELLENT web site for Super Cub fans, now I don´t know if you are familiar with this already, but you can find a majority of real Super Cub´s plans as a small pdf files. So, you can search and print small original plans of rudder, elevator and stabilizer. The original fin can be left untouched.

(I think there will be some modellers downloading plans in next couple of days... )

Check out: http://www.supercubproject.com/drawings/

Then, you just scale the tail feather plans to correct 1/4 size.

I purchased a CD-ROM including the very same plans from North Land Aircraft about two years ago.

Now it´s up to you if you wish to build the tail feathers using same manner Sig plan shows. Check the pictures enclosed, in my earlier project I made the tail parts except the fin from 2,0 mm balsa sheet. It´s a very light and still quite strong way to build them.

Anyway, this is going to be a sport model so I recommend the same structure as in Sig Cub originally but the size and shape must copy from Supercubproject plans. I´ll do mine that way.



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RE: SIG 1/4 Piper J-3 Cub -> PA-18 Super Cub convers... - 11/20/2006 3:54 PM   
szig



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Status: offline 		What a nice site. Thanks HH

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RE: SIG 1/4 Piper J-3 Cub -> PA-18 Super Cub convers... - 12/3/2006 5:33 AM   
WacoCabinaero



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Status: offline 		Throwing in link to keep the ball rolling. I am thinking about going to a Super Cub with fenders. Of course this would mean I would need a Cub Spinner.

Ta Da......

http://www.truturn.com/cgi-bin/store/agora.cgi?p_id=tth1500bcu&ppinc=prophubs&exact_match=on


Looks just perfect on the face of the 18 x 6 props I have on hand. An adapter kit is needed.

I always liked the stubby cones on the Cub.

< Message edited by Stearman Flyer -- 12/6/2006 4:15 PM >

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RE: SIG 1/4 Piper J-3 Cub -> PA-18 Super Cub convers... - 12/6/2006 4:50 PM   
WacoCabinaero



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Status: offline 		I'll talk to myself a bit for those wanting this thread to continue. I remember reading about an aircraft company wanting to buy the rights to manufacture the Piper Cub by that name. They liked the plane and wanted to take all of the hours of objective observation and experience by the so very many pilots who really knew what they were talking about and apply the benefit of all this accumulated wealth of info to the venerable Piper Cub by making the recommended changes accordingly. I understand that Piper was agreeable to this if the Company in question would assume the manufacturer's liability for the entire existing production. This was not an option for whatever reason. The Company designed their own Aircraft around the need for this type of Aircraft and the immense wealth of knowledge of those who fly, had flown, and knew what was needed of this workhorse. It doesn't have quite the same charm but it's quality and innovation speak for themselves.

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RE: SIG 1/4 Piper J-3 Cub -> PA-18 Super Cub convers... - 12/6/2006 10:37 PM   
Rob C



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Status: offline 		Hi Stearman Flyer. I recently acquired a 1/4 scale cub that I think is an old Sig kit and i was wondering if you could give me the dimension's of the opening of the Sig supercub conversion cowl where it fits over the firewall. ( height and width) Great work on your project so far, great thread. It will help me out when I start on mine. Thanks Bob.

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RE: SIG 1/4 Piper J-3 Cub -> PA-18 Super Cub convers... - 12/8/2006 4:02 AM   
WacoCabinaero



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Status: offline 		Hi Rob_C,

I am attaching 2 pics of the Super Cub Cowl by

http://www.fiberglassspecialtiesinc.com/

It appears earlier in the thread. That pic came from the manufacturer who does all parts pictures here. This cowl is intended to pop on without doing any modifications to the Sig 1/4 Cub fuselage. It's dimensions are 7" wide x 7" deep x 7.5" tall.

I will leave my above remark, but now that I have the SIG Super Cub conversion part in my possession and with help from Rob_C I have determined that modifications are needed to make this cowl fit. It is rather flat sided compared to a true Super Cub cowl rear x section but still a couple inches wider than the the J-3 firewall. Although the cowl protudes beyond the firewall, it is a bit wide for a straight change out.

I have attached a pic as well of the mold from Balsa USA 1/4 super Cubs. It is 8.5" across and is scale by my measurements. This would require similar modifications as presribed in this thread.

Also is the mold from a Ken Runsterand 1/4 Super Cub. It looks like it would be perfect for a Quadra or similar installation. Note exhaust cut out.

There are other parts producers that do good work. These are what I use is all.

All of the construction photos are from HHjul, the thread author. I haven't added any as not to confuse things. The author is on Hiatus apparently. I will be off line for a while myself doing PC renos.

Good luck, Bill

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< Message edited by Stearman Flyer -- 12/12/2006 1:46 PM >

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RE: SIG 1/4 Piper J-3 Cub -> PA-18 Super Cub convers... - 12/11/2006 9:32 AM   
HHjul


 

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Status: offline 		Just a quick note to tell you what´s happening.

Right now I´m finishing my 1/9 Blériot XI to participate the 2007 Finnish Indoor Scale series. It takes couple of weeks until it is ready and my table is empty. So, I´ll be back mid January. Sorry for the delay and inconvenience. After starting again, there will be no delays until the Super Cub is finished.

I have finally learned one important thing about RC Scale hobby: Only one project at a time!!!!

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I have one idea concerning the cowl. I will offer an ABS cowl later when I get my vacuum forming mold done, but there´s some aftermarket cowls available from Fiberglass Specialties worth a closer look. I´m talking about their items DF-3, cowling for 1/4 Dynaflite Super Cub, and HN-6, cowling for Hangar 9 Super Cub 1/4 ARF.




< Message edited by HHjul -- 12/11/2006 2:57 PM >

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RE: SIG 1/4 Piper J-3 Cub -> PA-18 Super Cub convers... - 12/12/2006 12:49 AM   
jeff naul


 

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Status: offline 		i'm building the same kit now so heres my question for who ever is still watching this thread. my wing is showing to have a positive 3.5 degrees of wing incidence, i thought i needed -2 max. so how did i go the wrong way. i leveled the plane with the thrust line. i need to post some pics although i have no luck with doing this. i've built a custom brass fuel tank that's in the nose, robart scale gear, concealed elevator linkage, and i'm attemting the pull pull on ailerons, but i'm having trouble with the throws. the top horn is only 1/4" tall while the lower one is around an inch i believe. so since i'm pulling two different lengths it causes it to bind. i built the horns using drawings of the real horn. looks good but doesnt work good, ive tried using different hole in the servo arm with no luck. any help? thank's guy's. jeff

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RE: SIG 1/4 Piper J-3 Cub -> PA-18 Super Cub convers... - 12/12/2006 3:01 AM   
old git


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: jeff naul
i'm attemting the pull pull on ailerons, but i'm having trouble with the throws. the top horn is only 1/4" tall while the lower one is around an inch i believe. so since i'm pulling two different lengths it causes it to bind. i built the horns using drawings of the real horn. looks good but doesnt work good, ive tried using different hole in the servo arm with no luck. any help? thank's guy's. jeff


Hi Jeff,

You need to drive the cables with the same geometary as the aileron horns. Looking along the axis of the aileron hinge the cable driving levers should be the same as the horns, both in length and with respect to the position of the aileron hinge. I tried to use draw on my (fairly) new Mac power book. No good at all. I suggest you make a mock up using balsa sticks for the horns and the control wires with pins for pivots. In effect the drive and the driven should be the same.

In answer to a previous observation about finishing one job before starting another, I'm a pre WW2 model and still haven't got to grips with finishing one before starting another. I have in fact dozens of part finished projects throughout the house. I'm rather afraid if I finish everything before starting another that I myself will be finished.



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RE: SIG 1/4 Piper J-3 Cub -> PA-18 Super Cub convers... - 12/12/2006 2:43 PM   
WacoCabinaero



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I have to add pics from Toni Clarks site. A 1/4 Super Cub By Toni Clark's Co. with a ZG62 and dampening mount with a 90 degree intake (a personal favorite). The builders name is Ingo Patzelt. Magnificent model. What a Glider tug this would make. The model on the side line is from Toni Clark's site as well, Manfred Ricken's Super Cub. Great jobs.



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< Message edited by Stearman Flyer -- 12/12/2006 4:19 PM >

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RE: SIG 1/4 Piper J-3 Cub -> PA-18 Super Cub convers... - 12/12/2006 3:22 PM   
jeff naul


 

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Status: offline 		hey old git! what you said is sinking in now. it just dawned on me that i need the servo centered with the hinge line and then get the levers and the horns the same lenghth. can't wait to get home and see now. i was worried about the cables exiting in the correct location more than the geometry. i'll have to start over now. thanks jeff.

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RE: SIG 1/4 Piper J-3 Cub -> PA-18 Super Cub convers... - 12/15/2006 2:32 PM   
Scotsman


 

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Status: offline 		HHjul,

Wondering if you could help out a fellow Cub builder. I have a Sig 1/4 scale J-3 that needs a set of wings constructed. I have the wing plan to work from, but I don't have the instruction book or the remaining sheets of the plans. My question is, what is specified for dihedral on the wing? Do they give a dimension to the bottom of a rib near the tip or an angle somewhere. The single wing plan sheet I have does not include anything.. Any help is appreciated. Thanks and really neat project you have here. I'll enjoy watching it come together.

Scot

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RE: SIG 1/4 Piper J-3 Cub -> PA-18 Super Cub convers... - 12/15/2006 2:44 PM   
GerKonig


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Scotsman

HHjul,

Wondering if you could help out a fellow Cub builder. I have a Sig 1/4 scale J-3 that needs a set of wings constructed. I have the wing plan to work from, but I don't have the instruction book or the remaining sheets of the plans. My question is, what is specified for dihedral on the wing? Do they give a dimension to the bottom of a rib near the tip or an angle somewhere. The single wing plan sheet I have does not include anything.. Any help is appreciated. Thanks and really neat project you have here. I'll enjoy watching it come together.

Scot



Hi Scot I purchased a built clipped wing 1/4 scale cub. I installed a G-26, and now I will work to put on the Balsa USA Super Cub cowling, as it gives a lot of room for the G-26. The wing I have is completely flat, no dihedral at all.

Gerry

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RE: SIG 1/4 Piper J-3 Cub -> PA-18 Super Cub convers... - 12/15/2006 3:22 PM   
old git


 

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Hi again jeff,

quote:

ORIGINAL: jeff naul

i was worried about the cables exiting in the correct location more than the geometry.


You can still use the exits required but if that changes the angle of approach to the horn there must be a similar angle from the servo.

You can still use balsa sticks to simulate the cables but if the cable runs around a pulley, the sticks can change direction by simulating the pulley with balsa bell-crank.

As I said before, all the runs can be simply simulated with a balsa sticks and pins model. When I was lecturing at the local college (30+ yrs) I used 1/20" by 1/4" steel strips hinged with tiny 4BA bolts and nuts.
All sorts of structures and linkages could be both demonstrated and simulated by this means. It was interesting to see how much was learned in a very short space of time using a "hands on" method.
I used steel because it was available. These things can also be investigated and demonstrated using a drawing board etc but again "hand on" was much faster and the concepts stuck.

This is what I love about model building, it is so hands on and satisfying solving the problems.





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RE: SIG 1/4 Piper J-3 Cub -> PA-18 Super Cub convers... - 12/15/2006 4:07 PM   
WacoCabinaero



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Status: offline 		There is a bit of dihedral in the full span version. The list of materials describes a "Dihedral Brace" as opposed to wing joiner. The manual clearly shows a smidge in the photo on pg 16 bottom right corner. I see you don't have the manual. I need a new scanner. Presently I cannot tell what the angle is. It is slight, maybe 1 - 1.5 degree.

The Clipped Cub may have none for obvious reasons. Sometimes a little dihedral is added simply because without it there is an illusion of anhedral.

Sorry I could not be of more help.

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RE: SIG 1/4 Piper J-3 Cub -> PA-18 Super Cub convers... - 12/18/2006 8:38 PM   
jeff naul


 

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Status: offline 		old git, an engineer friend came over the other night and gave it a look over and has come up with some new ideas. i have in my mind what your saying but i havent put it to use yet. this is all thats keeping me from starting to cover and get flying but i want it right. my biggest problem was that i wasn't using the same length cables. i need to get close on the cables and then take up slack with a pulley. i need to use your advice and mock it up outside the airplane then install. i'm hoping to get it done this week then i will post some pic's. later fellas, jeff


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RE: SIG 1/4 Piper J-3 Cub -> PA-18 Super Cub convers... - 12/18/2006 9:43 PM   
WacoCabinaero



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Status: offline 		Go down the page a bit on this site to the PULL-PULL topics. It's all there.

http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~atong/

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RE: SIG 1/4 Piper J-3 Cub -> PA-18 Super Cub convers... - 12/18/2006 10:24 PM   
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Status: offline 		Jeff,

Over at RC Scale Builder, under the Construction, Pull-Pull, area was a link to an article by Brian Felice.

http://members.cox.net/bdfelice/index.htm

In there Brian talks about his set up and also has a discusion about Ackerman. The Ackerman article explains a lot of the technical stuff, but towards the end, talks about applying Pull-Pull to a top hinged surface. The arms have to be equal on both sides of the hinge, not equal on both sides of the surface (elevator or aileron) and connection points even with the hinge line.

Just finish reading WacoCabinaero's post, it is the same as one of his links, but to the home page of Brian Felice. Good info on all the sites.

< Message edited by skylarkmk1 -- 12/18/2006 10:43 PM >

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RE: SIG 1/4 Piper J-3 Cub -> PA-18 Super Cub convers... - 12/18/2006 11:24 PM   
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Status: offline 		Well, I have been studying this site and have to get some ideas regarding a cowl.

I have just ordered a Balsa USA 1/4 J3 kit, with the intent of bashing it into a PA-18.

I know there are some differences in the firewall, and the cabin structure, but am curious about the cowl. Fiberglass Specialties offers two cowls. Are either of them scale in apperance. I know that HH was going to put together some type of kit that I would be interested in, just thought I'd get some feedback before proceeding too far.

Thanks for a great follow along site.

Dennis

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RE: SIG 1/4 Piper J-3 Cub -> PA-18 Super Cub convers... - 12/18/2006 11:38 PM   
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Status: offline 		The cowl mold in the previous batch of pics that says USA 10 which is the same as Part # SM-6 is 8.5" across the back and from scale 3 views I have deduced that it is 1/4 of the full scale width. I have the Fiberglass Specialties Sig Super Cub cowl in my hand here and as good as the quality is I have ordered the USA 10 as it is true scale in my opinion. I am going to use the their Sig Super Cub Cowl for bashing a Christen Eagle from Cub Plans. That mold USA 10 is for Balsa USA and Sid Morgan 1/4 Super Cubs. FG Specialties make about 10 different 1/4 Cub Cowls.

I have attached the photos of the part that I have ordered and using for my PA18 in place of the Sig SuperCub Cowl that appears under FG's Sig Kit parts category which I already have.

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< Message edited by WacoCabinaero -- 12/18/2006 11:56 PM >

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RE: SIG 1/4 Piper J-3 Cub -> PA-18 Super Cub convers... - 12/18/2006 11:43 PM   
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Status: offline 		Here is the Fiberglass Specialties Sig Super Cub cowl pic. Great quality but a little flat sided for my liking. Live and learn. Dimensions 7" wide x 7.625" tall.


It's a lot narrower than Part # SM-6 from the USA 10 mold which is actual 1/4 scale at 8.5" wide.

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< Message edited by WacoCabinaero -- 12/18/2006 11:51 PM >

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RE: SIG 1/4 Piper J-3 Cub -> PA-18 Super Cub convers... - 12/19/2006 4:46 AM   
old git


 

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Hi all,

I've been following this thread with interest and "may" attempt to follow along with your developments. I have just bought a J3 1/4 scale kit by Balsa USA on "tHat" website. I am now eagerly awaiting my Xmas box from USA to me here in UK. I have bought it now so I cannot reverse that decision, I would however be pleased to get any comments favourable or otherwise about my choice of kit.





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RE: SIG 1/4 Piper J-3 Cub -> PA-18 Super Cub convers... - 12/19/2006 6:35 AM   
WacoCabinaero



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quote:

ORIGINAL: old git


Hi all,

I've been following this thread with interest and "may" attempt to follow along with your developments. I have just bought a J3 1/4 scale kit by Balsa USA on "tHat" website. I am now eagerly awaiting my Xmas box from USA to me here in UK. I have bought it now so I cannot reverse that decision, I would however be pleased to get any comments favourable or otherwise about my choice of kit.





old git- - - - - - - -aka John L.


It's a great kit. The Sig is more expensive. It costs more to produce. It has a nice manual and a few more odds and ends. It looks a little more polished as a kit. It may be a bit more prefabricted. The parts are nice. Look at it this way. The Balsa USA Edo 1400 1/4 scale float kit is beautiful. The float plans are beautiful and you could build from them scratch no problem. I am. The Sig 1/4 scale float kit in my humble opinion although they work just fine on the Cub look like they are off a fun fly model by comparison and while they sell a plan for them you can't build the Sig float from the plan without a lot of extrapolation.

You got no worries John. It's what "you" make of it entirely. The one thing I wonder about is the Balsa USA is 108 inch span. The Sig is 105 inch and that is more accurate. The Balsa USA will likely build lighter. Use 1/4 square spruce for the longerons and birch dowels for the top unless you are going to nurse it around. These few sticks don't add much weight overall but make it a lot stronger especially if you are using a gas motor. In the next couple years a lot of kits are going to go by the way side. I don't think the Balsa USA will be one of the ones that go. I think the other will be. This is definitely a case of the builder, not the kit. I am building 3 at once here. A Sig, A Balsa USA from plans except I do have a new wing kit and a Sid Morgan from plans, actually Robert Scweitzer designed it and Sid just sold his plans. I've had these on the burner for a little while and have just been cutting the 2 kits. This thread got me going the Cub route. As this thread has petered out, not that it matters really, it was fun while it lasted. I am going to go another route at the moment. I'm just going to finish the kitting then go on to another project. They take up so much room when they are glued together. This is how we end up working on a hundred things at once. We talked about that before. It's all good though. No worries.

Bill

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RE: SIG 1/4 Piper J-3 Cub -> PA-18 Super Cub convers... - 12/19/2006 9:06 PM   
old git


 

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Hi there,

Thanks for your positive remarks about the Balsa USA kit. Some time ago I bought a Goldberg "Anniversary Edition" Cub, I put it to one side after deciding it seemed to have more in common with flat pack furniture. Not that I consider that bad in itself but just not what I was looking for. I bought a 1/3 scale drawing of a Cub, I forget the designer. I found that very interesting, the cabin area was constructed with steel tubing which really appealed to me. It seemed to make the possibilities of scale rendering very attractive. I have the gear and skills to fabricate the fuselage but alas could not find a source of thin wall extruded tubing. I wanted it as a long term project that I could start and stop as my interest took me.

I find it rather frustrating here in UK, we are separated from manufacturers by a number of levels of intermediate suppliers. I know that thin wall tubing is produced but cannot find a supplier. Equally I have as yet to find a supplier of aircraft quality spruce. I have a fully equipped woodworking machine shop but the only spruce I find is in the local model shop in 3' lengths or 4' to special order.

I have read a number of modellers (USA) bemoaning their fate at what they see in their local hobby shop, there are other ways to buy items and I do believe they are available to them. One source I have found invaluable is the auction site that no one dare mention. It's been very good to me, kits, engines and any number of bits and pieces, the only drawback is when the Revenuers get hold of my packages and $50.00 and to add injury to insult the shipper adds a charge of $15.00 for collection of the duty. All this is added to the not inconsiderable shipping charges, nevertheless it is worthwhile.

What I find most useful is the information and assistance I can get from sites such as this one, the internet is invaluable, thanks for your help.




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(in reply to WacoCabinaero)
       Post #: 124

RE: SIG 1/4 Piper J-3 Cub -> PA-18 Super Cub convers... - 12/19/2006 10:04 PM   
WacoCabinaero



Posts: 115
Score: 100
Joined: 8/29/2005
Last Login: 3/10/2007
From: Owen Sound, ON, CANADA
Status: offline 		Hey John,

I get hit with taxes and the $7 surcharge for having them figure out what to nail me. Sometimes the tax is $1.10 plus the $7.00 to figure it out. Thanks a pant load, eh. Most of my stuff comes from the US so I just have to accept it.

That's a beggar not being able to get some good spruce. I buy Aircraft grade off cuts of white spruce and Sitka in any lengths. A clear 2"x2"x6' of clear tight grained AC grade white spruce is $15. I cut it all myself to the dimensions I need. I don't know what it would cost to ship across the pond. I'ts the length that is the problem. Do you have any Aircraft repair shops that would have bits to sell. Old ladders were often Sitka spruce. Watch the yard sales. Chaps do that here. Sitka is $25 a board foot now.

You'll like that BUSA Cub. The Goldberg Cub yields a very functional model and works well off their floats. It has the strip ailerons, but I hear what your saying about it.

I wanted to buy some thin wall 1/4" OD x .018" wall and it was $100 for 4 feet. I wanted it for a cabane. That was stainless steel but price of steel has gone through the roof. We have Metal Super markets here. Real handy. The smallest Chrome Moly is sill an.035 wall. Heavy for a model. The pound is about 2.2 dollars cdn.

Cheers, Bill

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(in reply to old git)
       Post #: 125

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