2nd paragraph in Historical Notes says: """The entire wing was covered with 3-ply sheets just over ½ inch thick. It was then covered with doped fabric providing a tightly stressed surface. """
If this is true (the fabric and doping part) , wouldn't it be probable that standard fokker streaking, or even the possibility of four color lozenge fabric on the wings exist????
that pict of t. ostercamp on the wheel really does look like lozenge on the wing.
posit: would the time line be: E.V's have lozenge wings, or even olive streaking over lozenge (ha! that would explain why it only shows on the leading edge!) , then as they were repaired/re-winged and redesignated D.VIII's -- would they have been painted (overpainted) to help regain the pilots confidence??
quote:
ORIGINAL: ZoomZoom-RCU
Sorry to hear that Propnut, maybe Norm can help. In the meantime,just to prove to you guys I wasn't completely hallucinating, and that the illusion I was seeing was a pretty good one, here is the shot of the guy sitting on the wheel where the reflection from the glossy sub wing really looks like something it isnt. Add to the equation that the left hand side of the picture I had was cropped at right about the point where it becomes clear that this is a reflection, not a piece of pipe, and you'll see what I mean. Anyway, like I said B4, i'll snap some shots shortly and get em up here.
2nd paragraph in Historical Notes says: """The entire wing was covered with 3-ply sheets just over ½ inch thick. It was then covered with doped fabric providing a tightly stressed surface. """
One half inch?? I saw it too and it's no typo on your part! It's totally wrong--it was 2 mm plywood sheets, which might come out to a fat 1/16", or precisely, .0787".
quote:
If this is true (the fabric and doping part) , wouldn't it be probable that standard fokker streaking, or even the possibility of four color lozenge fabric on the wings exist????
This is unfortunately some of the mythology that's still going around about this plane's construction. The E.V/D.VIII had bare plywood to which the four stains were applied, then all of this was coated with clear varnish. No fabric was ever put on any Fokker Parasol in 1918. Now, the replica Brian Coughlin built has fabric doped to the plywood to make it very resilient to weather, but back then during the War, they were short on the niceties of doing stuff like that. This is also another reason why the wings were failing, they were basically falling apart due to moisture intrusion. Casein glue was what they used, again, no epoxies or aliphatic resin glues existed then.
quote:
that pict of t. ostercamp on the wheel really does look like lozenge on the wing.
Yes, there is something there that does look like a lozenge polygon, but it's just not the right size or shape and there just aren't any polygons adjacent to that particular one (next to the black stacking pad in the wing). Here's a pic of Stefan Stec's E.V which basically was still in German colors when the Polish Air Service used them, simply adding the red and white checkerboard insignia and some other decorations. The wing here is clearly in streaked finish on bare plywood.
Good questions asked--if you're trying to build something totally historically correct, then I guess one has to follow what your documentation and the historians are saying, but if it's for your own pleasure, do it any way you like!
< Message edited by Stachel -- 4/24/2007 3:47:35 AM >
Posts: 473
Joined: 6/30/2002 From: Louisa,
VA, USA Status: offline
Interesting points Stachel and Fokker Ace. I think there essentially is no question that 4 color streaking was used on some of these aircraft. It is clearly borne out in many photos. Fokker Ace I recommend you go to the aerodrome forum and check out the subject there. There is a lengthy and detailed discussion on the topic with many different theories and much information. However, I don't believe anyone can say definitively (although they may try to) that all these wings were done the same way on ALLof these planes. The photo evidence doesn't bear this out completely, and due to the fact that old black and white images are patently hard to figure/determine exact shades,its a topic which is subject to constant question. As one of you mentioned, due to wartime shortages, which is exactly the period when this craft was manufactured, there are no guarantees that proceedures of coloration were followed precisely, and what was close at hand was used. I think it is definitely possible, that in addition to the four color bands that have been recently been proven to have been used, there were also likely some solid green, and some streaked/banded green (in the Fokker style) wings as well. This would explain alot of the photos where the streaking is almost non-visible. This may be the result of a two tone greenish streaking as was done to some fokker fuselages, because the difference in brown to green is more sharp. I know some will say well its the angle of view in the shot, or the fact its stain and it soaks into the wood, but I have seen the brown and green shots, and they are clear. These not so much. So I guess it means we should stay open minded, cause just when you think you know it all.............hehe. Anyway, I'm almost ready to take some shots of my (more finished now) bird. I tried to do the wing in a way that would more reproduce what I saw in its original photos. If we really want to do a test, lets get somebody with a circa 1918 camera to take a shot. We'll post it online and see if everyone can determine what the colors really are! After all bets are down, I'll reveal the true colors and see who's closest to correct. Any Takers!!?? Hehe.
Posts: 388
Joined: 3/18/2007 From: Cortland,
NY, USA Status: offline
thank you, ZZ, Stachel & all. wasn't trying to perpetuate a myth, I hadn't heard the one about linen over plywood....just thought i might've had a brainstorm. got similar answers from 2 other sources too.
side note: is a Saito 90R3 ok for a BUSA D.VIII? (or too small)
Posts: 1560
Joined: 5/4/2004 From: Coral,
MI, USA Status: offline
The plane is light enough that a .90 might fly it....but it takes soo much nose weight to balance the plane out that a natural choice would be a gasser. A gasser would also give you a much bigger prop for scale looks. My Balsa USA DVIII is around 14lbs and flys with a 34cc fourstroke gasoline motor. The large engine balances with no extra weight added.
Posts: 732
Joined: 5/18/2006 From: Apple Valley,
CA, USA Status: offline
Guys, you are going way overboard with this color matching bit. In 1918 there were no color film and the black and white was orthochomtic which completely changed the colors of anything with red in it, Reg became black and all other colors were off. The sky was very dark because the blue didn't register. The only way to have a perfect Fokker D-VIII is to copy a reproduction such as Brian Coughlins. Then you will have color swatches to show the judges etc etc. Norm
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Joined: 5/18/2006 From: Apple Valley,
CA, USA Status: offline
Hi, of course you are right but in my opinion they are spinning their wheels when the time could be better used on some aspect that had an ending. I guess I have had too many years of judging high end scale contests and have a hard time adjusting to the new modeler. Norm
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RE: Fokker DVIII color concept - 
Those are awesome Norm. Thanks for sharing! 
Interesting points Stachel and 
