Fokker DVIII color concept (Full Version)

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ZoomZoom-RCU -> Fokker DVIII color concept (10/17/2006 6:15:42 PM)

Well, I'm about 3/4 of the way to finishing a scratchbuilt Fokker DVIII, and I'm still having some issues with the final color scheme decision. Its a roughly 1/4 scale size AC, composite build, for those interested. Anyway, when I first began this project, I thought I would do the standard, (I believe its jasta 6) scheme with the black and white sun style cowl/lozenge body/white striped wheels and stab. You've all seen this one before. So about half a year ago i was poking around online and came across some pretty cool, lesser know schemes, one of which featured a lozenge body/wheels and stab/ dark green cowl/green wing of course/.....and unique to this scheme, a black and white band aft of the cockpit with a five pointed black star in it. This star is duplicated on both sides of the fuse as well as on the back of the turtle deck in the white band. I was wondering if anyone here knows what this site might have been or where I can get a version of this image? Also, does anyone know if this is a legitimate scheme, or simply a contrived one? I did find a similar scheme in a German modeling site where the person who did it did the star in red, but I dont know if this a real version either. Any info/help would be much appreciated. TIA.

ZZ



allanflowers -> RE: Fokker DVIII color concept (10/17/2006 6:47:47 PM)

According to my Windsock Data File 25, that is an E.V from Jasta 36. There is an image at http://www.wingstrut.com/fokker_EV.htm
and here is (the same one) from my files.
When I look closely at the two photos in the Windsock Data File 25 (pg.21) I suppose one could make an argument that the star is slightly lighter than the black on the cross, and therefore MIGHT be red, with the film of the day. You could ask the history experts on the Aerodrome site and maybe get clarification.
Allan



ZoomZoom-RCU -> RE: Fokker DVIII color concept (10/17/2006 7:23:37 PM)

Allan you Rock!!! Thats the bird. Thanks so much for this plate. I have a few related questions for you. Where was jasta 36 located, and secondly, would the bottom lonzenge on the underside of the fuse be the lighter type (like underwing) or would it be the same as the sides? You may not have this info, but thought I'd ask.

Thanks Again!! ZZ.



allanflowers -> RE: Fokker DVIII color concept (10/17/2006 7:44:22 PM)

The plywood skinned wing was painted or stained, not covered with lozenge fabric. It probably would had had different colors on the bottom and both sides would have had a streaked finish in four bands, not a simple flat olive. I assume the horizontal tail surfaces were camo fabric however. The fuse and stab would have had the lighter 4 color lozenge on the underside, unlike the fuse sides and top which had the standard 4-color lozenge. The color drawing shows a gray cowl and olive struts with lozenge on the wheels. I don't know about the wheels but I believe the struts were probably gray and the cowl a light blue, like many other Jasta 36 aircraft. Most stub wings were probably painted olive.
I will look into my materials for the Jasta assignments.



allanflowers -> RE: Fokker DVIII color concept (10/17/2006 11:04:55 PM)

According to "The Jasta Pilots" (Franks, Bailey & Duiven), Jasta 36 was on the 7 Armee front., first in Ercheu, then Chambry during August 1918 - after the E.V was put in service and before it was pulled out for wing repairs. Of course this squadron had served in many places during the war.
On your wing, look up the Fokker E.V/D.VIII post on this site or go to Glen Torrence's site.



Stachel -> RE: Fokker DVIII color concept (10/18/2006 4:10:57 AM)

Hello,
I found a thread at the Aerodrome that deals with this color scheme specifically, and there's some interesting ideas floated around as to the star color and cowling. Your choice! I like the possible Heineken connection...[:D]
Jasta 36 Fokker E.V



ZoomZoom-RCU -> RE: Fokker DVIII color concept (10/18/2006 1:58:46 PM)

[:D]Thanks again Allen, and Stachel! You guys are fountains of information. Like you mentioned Allen, I'll likely do the wing in the all olive color, as this seems to be the most commonly accepted version, although there are some folks claiming now that there were possibly some brown and olive streaked wing finishes around. Stachel, thats an awesome actual shot which I've never seen before of this scheme, but I see what you mean about the "interpretation" issue which often arises with these old black and white shots........that being.......what exactly is that color anyway!!?? Those stars could be red or black....who can tell. I'm leaning towards black, but the Heinekin version as you mentioned is quite fetching. As for the cowl...hmmmm....totally could be light blue....or grey. Hard to say, but it does leave some room for interpretation. All in all though, I really like this scheme as it is one which you don't see modeled often (actually I never have seen it), and it will make a unique and unusual finished aircraft.

ZZ.



abufletcher -> RE: Fokker DVIII color concept (10/18/2006 4:38:58 PM)

The reflection on the underside of the wing is very imformative! Looks pretty darn glossy to me.



Stachel -> RE: Fokker DVIII color concept (10/18/2006 6:03:00 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: abufletcher

The reflection on the underside of the wing is very imformative! Looks pretty darn glossy to me.


Precisely! The stains (or olive streaking, if you subscribe to that theory--I think we all agree now the wing wasn't solid green as shown in the past) were coated with a coat or two of clear varnish for weatherproofing. I don't think they had satin or flat varnish in 1918.
I think it's a great color scheme, too. You never see one at the fly-ins or contests painted this way, just the usual Jasta 6 markings. Don't get me wrong, they are gorgeous, too! But variety is nice. ZoomZoom-RCU, post some pics of your D.VIII when you are at that stage of showing it off...
Love this site, gets me all excited to get back on my 1/4 scale D.VIII project. Right now I'm building an AerodromeRC Fokker D.V, 1/8 scale and what can I say? It's a great kit. Happy building!




ZoomZoom-RCU -> RE: Fokker DVIII color concept (10/18/2006 6:21:55 PM)

[:D]Thanks Stachel. I will get some of those pics up once I'm at the finishing stage. I might throw a few in here before then even.....just to give people an idea of the wierd construction process I've used, cause when its done it'll be pretty hard to tell the difference from a traditional build. So what do you all think is the most accurate wing finish.....all olive green?.....or the olive green with brown streaked patches intermittant? Just curious on what the "expertens" would recommend. Also, your right Abufletcher about that glossy wing, it really does have a shine.....was that a point of debate somewhere?....as to the glossiness of the wing finishes? Just curious.

ZZ.


PS....good luck with the DV Stachel......photos?



allanflowers -> RE: Fokker DVIII color concept (10/18/2006 10:34:31 PM)

Just about every photo I have seen of these planes shows gloss on the wings, particularly on the bottom where the weathering would not kill it. These were not fabric covered wings so there really isn't any debate.
On the wing colors, the attached pix is one of the CAD versions I tried but there is a whole thread on the Aerodrome site worth going through, probably more accurate.
[image]http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a53/allanflowers/EVwing8-9-05.jpg[/image]
[image]http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a53/allanflowers/fuse1Fa.jpg[/image]
[image]http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a53/allanflowers/fuse1H2.jpg[/image]



ZoomZoom-RCU -> RE: Fokker DVIII color concept (10/19/2006 4:48:37 AM)

[:D]Thanks Allan, that helps clarify things a great deal, and your pics are awesome. I don't have a current membership at aerodrome, but I do at rcscalebuilder.com, and there was a discussion about the same issue, and a fellow who did his wing in this style. There was an interesting musing about this very topic.....but the only thing I came away unsure of was whether or not they were implying that all DVIII wings were done in this fashion, or if only some were and others were the all olive green variety. If anyone knows definitively, it would be good to know. If its simply strong speculation (based on some sort of historical evidence of course), then I suppose you could do your wing either way and have it be accurate.....to the best of our current knowledge. Otherwise, I guess a lot of guys with green winged DVIII's will have some repaints to do.[;)]

ZZ



Prop Nut -> RE: Fokker DVIII color concept (10/19/2006 11:25:24 AM)

ZZ, you would like cruising the forums at TheAerodrome, tons of info on not just models but anything related to WWI. There is a great forum on full scale replicas. Many planes being constructed using the exact techniques of the originals. And alot that are not, lol.

I had thought that this color scheme was pretty rare...until I had it of course, then I see it everywhere :D Shows that I didnt do much research. This is the second one that I have had, a friend built the first, I purchased it and destroyed it in a misfortune. I built this one from the plans, its lighter and flies great with a Briggs and Stratton 4 stroke gasoline engine.
Its not very scale but is an eye catcher at the field.

Please do post some pictures of your build. I would love to see them.



ZoomZoom-RCU -> RE: Fokker DVIII color concept (10/23/2006 3:44:41 AM)

[;)]Thanks prop nut. I did get hooked up over at the aerodrome forum and read thru every related bit of info. From what I've seen both informationally and photgraphically, it seems that some of these did have multi colored wings. I have however seen photos that I felt showed a homogenous color on these wings as well. Who knows for sure.....no one. Maybe some were one way , others....due to lack of time and materials etc..... were done another. The streaking on some as mentioned could've been due to wood grain, weathering, or just one color being applied with heavier strokes in one area than others and soaking in to the ply. I have a feeling this debate wont end any time soon. On mine I'm leaning towards an olive stained top with an attempt at a light one color streaking. The bottom I haven't decided on yet. I have seen another shot of this same bird as you showed above, but from the rear, and I'll be darned if I can make out any streaking on the top wing. The cowl will be light blue. Anyway, I'll keep you guys posted.

ZZ



deljon -> RE: Fokker DVIII color concept (10/23/2006 10:16:35 PM)

ZZ.........Check out Glenn Torrence (GTM) site WWW.flygtm.com He sell the 4 and 5 color Lozenge for 1/4 scale. Nice stuff but not iron on, it has to be doped.

Check out this site, shows a painting I had Steve Anderson do featureing my GTM DVIII, it shows very well how the top and bottom four color streaking blends in with the ground and sky.

http://www.theaerodrome.com/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=392&cat=500&ppuser=1643

Del



ZoomZoom-RCU -> RE: Fokker DVIII color concept (10/24/2006 5:16:36 PM)

[:D]Thanks deljon, thats good info. I'm actually printing out my own lozenge fabric, its part of my challenge to build this thing as completely from scratch as possible.....save the electronics of course. I've done this for my smaller ac, so scaling it up a bit is the method of choice. As for the wing streaking, I've looked at many photos of DVIII, or EV,s as they are referred to by some, and in some I can see some merit to the theory that they may have been streaked.....but in many othere there is no evidence of it at all from what I have seen after scrutinizing them quite closely. In addition....to claim a person knows unequivocably that all were treated in the same fashion is a sheer impossibility. Even if initial specifications called for certain pigments to be used, this doesn't mean they were in actuality....due to shortages by wars end...etc...and even if they may have been used on some....they may not have been used similarly on others. I have seen a shot....I wish I could find it to post it here....of this particular ac from the rear where the top wing is visible....and i'm sorry......no streaking can I detect. I think some folks are so determined to see it everywhere that they are trying too hard. In fact, I've seen castor oil stains (which had been wiped off) that had more definition. Long story short, I will likely do a one color olive drab "staining" that I think may have been used and may reproduce some of the "streaking staining uneven effects" that are occaisionally seen. Should be interesting.

ZZ.



normgoyer -> RE: Fokker DVIII color concept (10/24/2006 11:48:10 PM)

Hi Fokker lovers, I too have a 1/3 scale D-VIII finished, covered with Ceconite and clear doped 4 coats. I have located a color photo of a captured VIII in the United States with early Army Air Corp insignia. If I don't sell this huge airplane that will be my scheme. Norm



deljon -> RE: Fokker DVIII color concept (10/24/2006 11:57:41 PM)

normgoyer.........That sounds like a pretty neat scheme, can you share that picture with us??

Del



normgoyer -> RE: Fokker DVIII color concept (10/25/2006 12:19:11 AM)

Hi I found it in one of my researh books which if I remember is an old magazine. I will try. I am a slob when it comes to filing. Norm

I have i filed someplace to use when I am ready to paint the Fokker



ZoomZoom-RCU -> RE: Fokker DVIII color concept (10/25/2006 12:33:04 AM)

[:D]Yeah, that does sound really cool. If you can find it, please post it!

ZZ.



Stachel -> RE: Fokker DVIII color concept (10/27/2006 3:08:18 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ZoomZoom-RCU


PS....good luck with the DV Stachel......photos?


It will be very soon! I keep my models at my dad's house, no room here and I want to keep my wife happy by not taking over the dining room.
The top wing is under construction now, the fuse, bottom wing and tail surfaces are framed up, and next up is the struts and LG.
Sorry to hijack your thread--will create a seperate one when I have the pics ready.
Good luck with your D.VIII
Lyle



ZoomZoom-RCU -> RE: Fokker DVIII color concept (10/30/2006 6:06:08 PM)

[;)]Thanks Stachel. Don't sweat the hi-jack, we'd love to see it.

ZZ.



Stachel -> RE: Fokker DVIII color concept (11/1/2006 10:20:03 PM)

Here is one shot of the top wing almost done:



Stachel -> RE: Fokker DVIII color concept (11/1/2006 10:25:17 PM)

Here are two of the fuselage and tail surfaces



ZoomZoom-RCU -> RE: Fokker DVIII color concept (11/7/2006 2:05:43 PM)

[;)]Cool Stachel. Keep us posted as to further progress. At the same time I'm getting close to sticking up a pic of my DVIII before covering. I'm tempted to wait and stick up a finished version and see if anyone can tell the difference between it and a traditional build. They won't be able to easily, but some will claim they can. Anyway, who cares, as soon as I'm done with the framing up, and pre "guts installation" I will post some shots. Probably in the next few weeks. Speaking of the internals. Do you guys have any recommendations for what size battery pack I should use in this bird? The set up is a basic 8 channel reciever, I'm running two standard sized servos in the wings (ie. futaba 3000's or the like), and another standard to push the throttle, and two 1/4 size big boys for the elevator and rudder. I'm not sure what this combo will draw, but I'm looking for something that can handle the system. I'm also pretty sure those big ones will need a little more power, but do I increase the voltage, or simply the milliamp hours? Any help is much appreciated. TIA.


ZZ



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