RE: Need Redefined SPA or New Class!!  
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RE: Need Redefined SPA or New Class!! - 10/25/2003 1:26:01 AM   
humptybump


 

Posts: 7
Joined: 10/24/2003
From: Glen Allen, VA,
Status: offline 		I keep hearing about the want for loud.....screaming.....retract equipt. planes......You know...The 105DB piped stuff that KILLS flying sites.

Gentlemen...........................As my good buddy Steve B. posted.........Join the SPA.....Try it....It's a BLAST.......I travel 500 to 800 miles to contests from Central Va. and it has always been fun. Even my wife likes SPA contests.....I am not kidding.

Go to the SPA website and read the rules.....It ain't all 4-strokes if that is not your bag.....You CAN fly a P8 at 120 mph if you want......You don't need a tuned pipe to do that today. It isn't just the plane......It's the guy on the sticks that wins.

The reason the OS .91 Surpass is so popular with SPA is because it is quiet(er) and it is better in the verticles. The POWER of a good running 4-Stroke is still under estimated. Go to a contest.......you will see both 4S and 2S engines. My OS 91 FS Daddy Rabbit ain't slow......It HAULS....., and flys like you wouldn't believe.

I have a very good friend in Ala. that flew his Daddy Rabbit in AMA Advanced and BEAT most of his competition flying modern 2M planes.....You know those guys were SICK to see that.....I still laugh about it.

If you REALLY like the old non-turn around stuff................Join the SPA and BECOME a voting member. and...If you live in Va. , NC , MD...?...........e-mail me.......humptybumpty@earthlink.net..........I'd love to get you started again.......John

(in reply to astropuppy)
       Post #: 26

RE: Need Redefined SPA or New Class!! - 10/25/2003 2:43:19 AM   
ramcfarland



Posts: 3182
Joined: 11/4/2002
From: Waldorf , MD, USA
Status: offline 		Daddy Rabbits Daddy Rabbits how about a well constructed Ron Cidgey Tiger Tail. It seems I'm about the only one flying one or two if you count my 80's Cidgey designed Tiger Tail IV;by the way if any one out there has the Tiger Tail IV as produced by Cajun RC (PLEASE)LET ME KNOW. Back to the Daddy Rabbit It must be good................

_____________________________

Fast Richard

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       Post #: 27

RE: Need Redefined SPA or New Class!! - 10/25/2003 2:57:40 AM   
ramcfarland



Posts: 3182
Joined: 11/4/2002
From: Waldorf , MD, USA
Status: offline
quote:

..As my good buddy Steve B. posted.........Join the SPA.....Try it....It's a BLAST.......I travel 500 to 800 miles to contests from Central Va. and it has always been fun. Even my wife likes SPA contests.....I am not kidding.


I'm also an SPA member in good standing and will also continue to support the Senior Pattern Association I feel, as Steve Byrum suggested to me,that being to start a "spark plug" in the Md. D.C. Virginia areas and organize type S.P.A. contests in our region,what do you all think. I'll bet we have enough interested vintage pattern flyer's. Not to mention the later style pattern birds providing they meet regional noise limits!

_____________________________

Fast Richard

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       Post #: 28

RE: Need Redefined SPA or New Class!! - 10/25/2003 10:56:32 AM   
mups53


 

Posts: 1088
Joined: 1/15/2002
From: Hoffman Estates, IL, USA
Status: offline 		There are plenty of pattern contests around the whole country that could combime SPA into a regular contest. Say that we have 25 guys flying 2 meter and 8 or so of them would bring a vintage plane and fly a few rounds of that also. This would be a good way to bring the SPA to other parts of the country. If it grew it would warrent it's own stand alone contests. It'll have to start slow like this in the midwest because it needs exposure. Mike

(in reply to ramcfarland)
       Post #: 29

RE: Need Redefined SPA or New Class!! - 10/25/2003 6:01:21 PM   
humptybump


 

Posts: 7
Joined: 10/24/2003
From: Glen Allen, VA,
Status: offline 		Combining SPA and AMA would be nice. The problem i see (as a CD) is the fact that the number of rounds for the AMA portion would most likely have to be short to accomodate the SPA rounds. Some pilots may like that , but several will not make the trip causing a low turn out.

Generally....A contest with 25 or more pilots takes a complete day on Sat. and at least 1/2 day on Sun. to get in 6 rounds. If..... the weather is perfect , the sun is not a problem in the AM , everything is well organized early in the AM , and the contestants get to the field before 8:30 etc etc.

A Tiger Tail would be great. It's not all Daddy Rabbits. I've seen Intruders , Compensators , King Altair (Very cool plane and Big) , Miss Norway , Taurus , Sun Fli's , Kaos's.....all kinds of planes.

Since SPA has been around for about 11 to 12 years now , i think there may be an upgrade in approved models for the future. I'm not sure on this, but it may happen.
For instance.....Maybe adding 1976 thru 1980 designs. Something like that will be a big decision. SPA is very competitive , but a little more laid back than AMA in my eyes. Believe me.....If something like that happens......Everybody will be building and testing new planes and it will be an expense to stay competitive....Just like AMA. The idea of SPA is to keep things simple and CHEAP(er).

I had a nice talk with Mickey Walker (founder of the SPA) at "Hotlanta" this past July. His original idea was to be able to be competitive with a Kaos sporting a standard .60 and a basic 4 channel radio. It did start out that way , but competition is competition and everybody always looks for an edge....Hence....the hunting for the best flying plane with as much power as is legal , and most of the radios are 7-8 channel computer ard up. So.....now you got fast , smooth ,dialed in planes with top of the line servos and unlimited electronic mixing to be competitive. It wasn't like that back in the 60's and early 70's.

I think if the floodgates are opened that the cost of an SPA plane will be almost as high as a current 2-meter. So the idea of simple and inexpensive is out the door IMHO........But hey......Those are just my personal thoughts and not necessarily that of the SPA organization..........................J

(in reply to mups53)
       Post #: 30

RE: Need Redefined SPA or New Class!! - 10/25/2003 8:33:59 PM   
mups53


 

Posts: 1088
Joined: 1/15/2002
From: Hoffman Estates, IL, USA
Status: offline 		I agree that mixing may not always work but there atre plenty of under attended AMA events and this would possibly spice things up a bit.
The thing that I don't understand is how would a post 76 plane cost more if the rules on engines were to stay the same.
Had to mention 1 other thing I remember the King Altar, the engines back then were underpowered for the big frame but I'll bet it's a great plane with a YS 91 on it.
Mike

(in reply to humptybump)
       Post #: 31

RE: Need Redefined SPA or New Class!! - 10/26/2003 4:18:23 PM   
humptybump


 

Posts: 7
Joined: 10/24/2003
From: Glen Allen, VA,
Status: offline 		Mike.....My thoughts on the cost increase included epoxyglass kits with retracts. 99% of the planes that are flown now are all wood w/foam wings. Simple and cheap to build. Even the World Models A6 Intruder ARF is inexpensive. You can build a Rabbit for about $100 excluding the radio and engine.

An epoxyglass EU1 A (basic kit w/o wood) would probably run $400. Then add wood , retracts , etc etc , and you've spent $600 or more before you started building. That's what i was thinking with the increased cost comment.

The King Altair is not too bad with a strong OS .91FS. It really needs a 120. It was way ahead of it's time. I have a new set of plans that i keep looking at for a future project. Need a bunch of light wood for that bird. Lots of carving and sanding.

Have a great weekend.....................John

(in reply to mups53)
       Post #: 32

RE: Need Redefined SPA or New Class!! - 10/29/2003 3:29:57 AM   
spbyrum


 

Posts: 113
Joined: 11/22/2002
From: Cullman, AL, USA
Status: offline 		Too bad Astropuppy, Mach I has been legal for years. I've had guys ask for MachII plans (also legal) but no one seems to be able to come up with a set.

Chicagp?!?!? Do they fly pattern there? Bruce might just have some fun with Yankees that can really fly.

Put skis on the Rabbit yet??

(in reply to astropuppy)
       Post #: 33

RE: Need Redefined SPA or New Class!! - 10/29/2003 3:44:06 AM   
mups53


 

Posts: 1088
Joined: 1/15/2002
From: Hoffman Estates, IL, USA
Status: offline 		Steve as I remember there never was a production model of the Mach 2. Norm Page designed it and didn't like the way it flew. It was a swept wing version. He said it was bad so that was the end of that deal. I know these things because I was sort of Norms protege. The plane after that was the Mach 3. It had a fat wing and had a relativly short 58" WS. I flew that plane at the 75 Masters in Huntsville and it was a good plane but only a few were ever built. Norm pretty much gave it up shortly after that. He really left his mark on pattern in the 70's. He was in his time simply the best! Mike

(in reply to spbyrum)
       Post #: 34

RE: Need Redefined SPA or New Class!! - 10/29/2003 4:25:42 AM   
astropuppy


 

Posts: 196
Joined: 1/11/2002
From: Chicago, IL, USA
Status: offline 		See Steve, I may live in the land of ID, but the pattern part of me still lives in Chicago cica 1973. I would love to see Bruce fly aganist Mike. That would be a hoot. Especially, if Mike where flying a Mach I.

Not sure of the particulars but I believe a southern design (Tiger Tail?) won the Lake Charles Nationals in the early 70's. As a kid I remember many a conversation taking place in Chicago about why the Mach I was a better plane. I think Mike will agree, back then, Mr. Page (as I called him) was sort of a local hero for his Mach I design as Ed Kazmirski was before him with the Taurus.

There ya go Mike. Start a Yankee SPA group. SPA patterns and only allow planes designed north of the Maison Dixon line. Very Very Big Grin. I'll keep my Rabbit, thank you. I do have Mach I plans and have threaten to build one more then once.

Maybe in Alabama they put Skies on Rabbits, but, out here skis go on ones feet; Not, on ones Rabbit. <grin>

(in reply to spbyrum)
       Post #: 35

RE: Need Redefined SPA or New Class!! - 10/29/2003 4:30:20 AM   
astropuppy


 

Posts: 196
Joined: 1/11/2002
From: Chicago, IL, USA
Status: offline 		A note to prospective members of SPA Members.

Don't do it. True Story, tonight I delivered the last of my non SPA (Rabbit) airplanes to its buyer. After flying my Rabbit for the first time this year, I have sold 6 (flyable) airplanes. My wife thinks I'm getting out of the hobby, little does she know what I have in store. My entire arsenal of airplanes now consist of: Daddy Rabbit, Unfinished Kaos, 2m Sailplane and my kids park flyer. Yep I like SPA airplanes, even if there isn't a SPA contest within 2000 miles of me.

While we're on the subject of SPA rules: Does John's Rabbit have a Canopy yet?

(in reply to astropuppy)
       Post #: 36

RE: Need Redefined SPA or New Class!! - 10/29/2003 4:55:56 AM   
ramcfarland



Posts: 3182
Joined: 11/4/2002
From: Waldorf , MD, USA
Status: offline 		Here is a question: as some of you "southern gentleman" might know, that being the origional 1971 Nats winning Tiger Tail was later re designed by it's origional designer,Ron Chidgy in the early 80's and was called the Tiger Tail IV. Steve----if your reading this would my Tiger Tail IV be SPA legal gear down of course....

_____________________________

Fast Richard

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       Post #: 37

RE: Need Redefined SPA or New Class!! - 10/29/2003 7:08:26 AM   
Ed_Hartley


 

Posts: 11
Joined: 1/14/2003
From: Knoxville, TN, USA
Status: offline 		Those of you who like the SPA idea should check out the web site http://www.seniorpattern.com and join the mail list.

Present your ideas and enjoy the fellowship.

Here is a picture of my 4-Stroke Daddy Rabbit.

Best,
Ed Hartley

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(in reply to ewspears)
       Post #: 38

RE: Need Redefined SPA or New Class!! - 10/29/2003 12:39:02 PM   
GW



Posts: 540
Joined: 2/28/2002
From: Guntersville, AL, USA
Status: offline 		John, The King Altair is a great combo for SPA teamed with a OS 91 FS on CP Heli 30%. I built one 2 years ago when I flew in a few SPA contest. It was All up weight of 7.5 lbs. Alot of fun, flew at a much slower speed than the DR I was flying. Very Graceful and smooth flying . It was near like flying my 2 meter planes. It was the best flying SPA plane I have flown. It now has a new owner in town here, and he even commented ( along with a few of his competition) that it made him a more capable pilot. I have some templates made to ease constuctioon of the plane. Keeping the original planform, just different and lighter techniques in framing. If you build it with all the different parts as the