The aileron dilemma for a beginner  
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Tower Hobbies
Enter up to 4 keywords or Tower stock numbers
Logged in as Guest



Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
       

All Forums >> RC Airplanes >> RC Gliders, Sailplanes and Slope Soaring >> The aileron dilemma for a beginner
Page: [1] 2   next >   >>  

Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
The aileron dilemma for a beginner - 10/19/2006 3:36:22 AM   
livid2


 

Posts: 17
Joined: 4/7/2005
From: Melbourne, AUSTRALIA
Status: offline 		Hi all, I fly powered aircraft but never flown gliders before. A friend of mine has been suggesting that I get into gliding. He had a bungee system he uses at his farm, so now I have to decide on a glider.

My problem is I like ailerons and flaps. My friend says that for gliding you don’t need them and a simple 2 channel will be fine. I am not particularly interested in a motor because we will use the bungee. I wanted to keep the price under AUD$200

I have been considering the GP Spirit Elite ARF. This has the flaps and ailerons, but I don’t know if this is too advanced and have also heard that they dont "stay up" long.

Basically, what I want to know is, how important are the ailerons for thermal flying on a farm. Is my fetish for ailerons warranted here or should I go for something cheaper without…any suggestions???

NB: the other glider I was looking at was the Global "Easy Answer" 2ch ARF. (about $60 cheaper)
       Post #: 1

RE: The aileron dilemma for a beginner - 10/19/2006 3:51:05 AM   
Tall Paul



Posts: 4692
Joined: 6/23/2002
From: Palmdale, CA, USA
Status: offline 		The Spirit Elite works fine with ailerons.
It doesn't hurt to hook up the rudder also.
A good 2-channel glider is the Spirit.
Or the Gentle Lady.

_____________________________

Sparky Paul
http://www.angelfire.com/indie/aerostuff

(in reply to livid2)
       Post #: 2

RE: The aileron dilemma for a beginner - 10/19/2006 7:52:37 AM   
slopemeno



Posts: 448
Joined: 5/24/2003
From: San Francisco, CA, USA
Status: offline 		Wing servos usually drive the price up pretty quickly. I'd go for the Spirit, and do the mods that the Charles River Soaring Society has on their website, i.e. reducing decalage, sheeting tips, etc. My Dads Spirit thermals well considering how heavy it is.

I just drug my Gentle lady out of mothballs for the first time in about 7 years, and it flies well. I took it on a road trip recently and had a ball flying it at some sites along Hwy 1 in California. Theres nothing wrong with a simple sailplane.

(in reply to Tall Paul)
       Post #: 3

RE: The aileron dilemma for a beginner - 10/19/2006 8:09:07 AM   
livid2


 

Posts: 17
Joined: 4/7/2005
From: Melbourne, AUSTRALIA
Status: offline 		Thanks for your replies. It seems that the Gentle Lady is a popular 2Ch. I am still unsure about the use of ailerons. Are having ailerons on a thermal glider worth the extra $. Eg: choosing the Spirit Elite over the gentle lady?

(I am aware I may be a little repetitive, but I just wanted to clarify the ailerons issue)

Thanks

(in reply to slopemeno)
       Post #: 4

RE: The aileron dilemma for a beginner - 10/19/2006 2:16:18 PM   
kwmtrubrit


 

Posts: 175
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Little Rock (via London Eng.), AR, USA
Status: online 		I don't think the issue is whether an aileron ship will thermal, it will. The issue is that a two (or three, RES) channel will be easier to fly because of the polyhedral, or high dihedral wing. This plane will pretty much self correct from a bad manouver. An aileron plane you will need to fly all the way. You've flown power, but sailplanes are a bit different. Stall in a turn is always a threat, no power to pull you through. Landings, one shot, no missed approaches.

Enjoy, you will love it

Keith

_____________________________

Be an organ and tissue donor. Tell your family your wishes. It's your last chance to make a difference.

(in reply to livid2)
       Post #: 5

RE: The aileron dilemma for a beginner - 10/19/2006 3:22:51 PM   
kevin mcgrath


 

Posts: 739
Joined: 1/24/2002
From: Sault Ste Marie, ON, CANADA
Status: offline 		All that dihedral or polyhedral works with the rudder to give more response than you would imagine.You dont "fly" a glider .........you help it do what it will do without you.......ie glide.
I would consider a Bird of Time ARF which is easily in your price range and is a v good thermal hunter.


_____________________________

Kevin
MAAC 6401L,CD.

(in reply to kwmtrubrit)
       Post #: 6

RE: The aileron dilemma for a beginner - 10/19/2006 4:31:13 PM   
slopemeno



Posts: 448
Joined: 5/24/2003
From: San Francisco, CA, USA
Status: offline 		Thats a good suggestion. That BOT flies great. A friend of mine used one for his light-lift sloper and it can really cover ground if necessary, but will core tiny thermals and climb like crazy in light air. Plus Tower is always bombarding you with those $20.00 off coupons, so you can knock the price down a little.

(in reply to kevin mcgrath)
       Post #: 7

RE: The aileron dilemma for a beginner - 10/19/2006 5:33:11 PM   
Liberator


 

Posts: 804
Joined: 3/2/2005
From: Sandy, UT, USA
Status: offline 		THe BOT ARF is exactly the way I am sending all my folks in terms of high start and beginner. Learning to fly it is as easy in my opinion as any 2 meter ship, its as good a selection price wise and I think that it is easier to learn to themal on and have success than a 2 meter ship.

The other side of that coin is that as you progress, it is a simple mod to put spoilers in to help in landing.

The spirit Elite is fine in more experienced hand, but it flies very quickly which makes it more difficult to themal for a beginner.

_____________________________

One man's crash is another man's carefully planned landing maneuver.

(in reply to slopemeno)
       Post #: 8

RE: The aileron dilemma for a beginner - 10/19/2006 7:36:17 PM   
Tall Paul



Posts: 4692
Joined: 6/23/2002
From: Palmdale, CA, USA
Status: offline 		Ailerons on planes which fly as slowly as the GL aren't worth spit.
All they do is add drag on the wrong side.
For a 2-channel airplane, the GL is supreme.

_____________________________

Sparky Paul
http://www.angelfire.com/indie/aerostuff

(in reply to Liberator)
       Post #: 9

RE: The aileron dilemma for a beginner - 10/19/2006 10:33:20 PM   
aeajr



Posts: 5581
Joined: 1/14/2003
From: Long Island, NY, USA
Status: offline 		Power pilots like ailerons because they are accostumed to flying stunts and zooming around the sky. Glider pilots know that the key to thermal soaring is flying smoothly and keeping your hands off the sticks.

Now, you can do that with a full house glider like the Elite or you can do it with a 2-3 channel R/E/S like the Spirit 2M.

When thermaling, you often ride the thermals high and can get out to significant distances. The poly wing planes are easier to fly in this situaiton as they tend to be self leveling so you can relax more when you fly. The aileron planes tend to have flatter wings and typically need more attention from the pilot. When you are at a distance it can be difficult to see the orientation of the plane making the aileron planes a bit more work.

On the other hand, when it is windy, the aileron planes are more positive in their control. The 2-3 channel poly wing planes then to get tossed around more.

For precision spot landings, flaps win over spoilers in my opinion. For ease of use, in my opinion, spoilers win over flaps.

So, that is the story as I see it.

_____________________________

Clear Skies and Safe Flying!
Ed Anderson
Moderator
Park Pilot Program Partner

(in reply to Tall Paul)
       Post #: 10

RE: The aileron dilemma for a beginner - 10/20/2006 2:16:19 AM   
livid2


 

Posts: 17
Joined: 4/7/2005
From: Melbourne, AUSTRALIA
Status: offline 		Thank you all for your replies, they have REALY helped me understand more about gliders and helped over come my powered obsession for ailerons. It seems that a 2Ch is the way to go for me as a first glider. I do have one other question. I looked into the Bird Of Time but I cant seem to get it here in Australia. The postage from the U.S blows the budget.

It seems the Gentle Lady gets good reviews; unfortunately here they are around $225 ARF. However my local Hobby Shop has a Global "Easy Answer" for $120. Does anyone know anything about this glider; is it similar to the Gentle Lady what do people think?

Thanks again all for your replies.

(in reply to aeajr)
       Post #: 11

RE: The aileron dilemma for a beginner - 10/20/2006 3:30:44 AM   
aeajr



Posts: 5581
Joined: 1/14/2003
From: Long Island, NY, USA
Status: offline 		I don't know the Easy Answer.

Up to a year ago, the Spirit 2M has been my primary recommendation. However I now recommend the Multiplex Easy Glider as a first glider.

If you were not focused on building a wood kit, I direct new pilots is the Multiplex Easy Glider. It is elapor foam, 5.6 oz wing loading. Flies great off hi-start or on the slope. You can easily add 10 ounces of ballast to it. AND it has ailerons, but but the wing design is such that it will float like a Spirit and it is quite stable.

I would have recommended it right away but you seemed to have your planes picked.

It is available pure glider or as an electric.

I have the electric version. Mine is upgraded from the stock geared speed 400 to a brushless.

We have several Easy Gliders in our club without motors. They really fly well and will really take a beating without sending you back to the building table.

Just another option.

Easy Glider sailplane kit - $79
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXKHS7&P=7
Easy Glider Electric - ARF - $89
- This is probably too large to be considered a park flyer but
the combination of great flying ability, tough Elapor construction and great
thermal or slope soaring ability makes this an excellent first electric
sailplane.
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXKHS8&P=7
Flight Pack
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXKYM0&P=7
Receiver Ready
http://www.hobbypeople.net/gallery/240107.asp
Review of Receiver Ready Package
http://www.rcgroups.com/links/index.php?id=5042
Multiplex Site
http://www.multiplexusa.com/models/ParkFliers/EasyGliderE.htm
http://www.modelspot.com/mpx/easyglider.htm
Video
http://www.multiplex-rc.de/cms/vorschau/upload/d_videos/easyglider_electric.wmv
http://www.elflight.dk/video5/easy-gl-hang.wmv
Discussion Thread
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=347989

_____________________________

Clear Skies and Safe Flying!
Ed Anderson
Moderator
Park Pilot Program Partner

(in reply to livid2)
       Post #: 12

RE: The aileron dilemma for a beginner - 10/20/2006 9:06:48 PM   
BMatthews



Posts: 9004
Joined: 10/4/2002
From: Burnaby, BC, CANADA
Status: offline 		Livid, it's hard to suggest stuff when you don't know what's available to the person asking the question. Can you provide links to what you can find over in your area and then we'd be in a better position to suggest the best option.

Frankly as a guess I'd be inclined to stay away from anything with the word "Easy" in it. MOst likely it's intended more as a trainer and will have poor soaring and penetration charactaristics. You KNOW how to fly so the idea is to jump to the second level and learn to fly smoothly with minimal control inputs in a proper sailplane efficient manner and to read air. A basic trainer glider will hold you back.

I'm not suggesting a $1000 Graphite or Ava or similar but something that is the next level up would probably serve you better for longer before you feel the need to upgrade or just move on.

So let's see sum links! ! ! !

_____________________________

Witty saying to be plagarized shortly.....

(in reply to aeajr)
       Post #: 13

RE: The aileron dilemma for a beginner - 10/20/2006 9:54:21 PM   
kwmtrubrit


 

Posts: 175
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Little Rock (via London Eng.), AR, USA
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: kevin mcgrath

All that dihedral or polyhedral works with the rudder to give more response than you would imagine.You dont "fly" a glider .........you help it do what it will do without you.......ie glide.
I would consider a Bird of Time ARF which is easily in your price range and is a v good thermal hunter.


Funk and Wagnalls Standard Dictionary: FLY: "To move through the air on wings, as a bird." "To move of travel through the air by aircraft." "To cause to fly or float in the air."

FLIGHT: The act or manner of flying; also, the power of flying."

FLYER: "One who or that which flies."

Full size or RC, they are flown.


_____________________________

Be an organ and tissue donor. Tell your family your wishes. It's your last chance to make a difference.

(in reply to kevin mcgrath)
       Post #: 14

RE: The aileron dilemma for a beginner - 10/20/2006 9:59:50 PM   
aeajr



Posts: 5581
Joined: 1/14/2003
From: Long Island, NY, USA
Status: offline 		If you had the budget I would suggest you get the Thermal Dancer that I just built. It is not a wood kit, it is an all composit. Sort of an entry level contest plane.

$600 US. www.polecataero.com All up, including EVERYTHING, about $1000US but boy does she fly nice.



Attachments