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RE: Spektrum DX-7 - 9/9/2009 1:32 AM   
smooreace


 

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Status: offline 		I cant really find any reason to ahve a second radio, but I can surely pt those unrelaible POS recievers to use wastfully wieghing down a few plane I have that are without recievers ATM. I can always use ballast, especially when it has the Spektrum name on it!

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RE: Spektrum DX-7 - 9/9/2009 1:38 AM   
onewasp


 

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ORIGINAL: smooreace

I cant really find any reason to ahve a second radio, but I can surely pt those unrelaible POS recievers to use wastfully wieghing down a few plane I have that are without recievers ATM. I can always use ballast, especially when it has the Spektrum name on it!



I take it that is based on all 3 years of your experience right?

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RE: Spektrum DX-7 - 9/9/2009 3:10 AM   
TexasSkyPilot



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ORIGINAL: BaldEagel

Why do we put up with a manufacturer that does not fix the problem of Brown out, but just makes the Rx turn back on quicker, it is unacceptable in my opionion for Spektrum not to have fixed this very real problem so that the Brown out does not happen so close too the maximum voltage of a four cell pack.

My DX7 Spektrum will not be flown in any of my airframes, a sad fact, but I just don't trust this manufacturer anymore.

Mike



People have ALWAYS pushed it too far and flown when they KNEW their batteries were too low. So, YOU are saying that when people push it too far that it's the MANUFACTURER'S problem? And when the manufacturer gives the flying fool's a possible reprieve from their foolish flying foibles, you say it's NOT ENOUGH?

What do you think, that this is the FIRST time planes have fallen from the sky due to low batteries? I've watched this happen in various ways for 30 years now. AM, FM, PCM, it doesn't matter. Run the battery too low, and the plane goes bye-bye.

If your battery is low-spiking to below 3.5, then your voltage is TOO LOW. Complaining that the battery should last longer? Why? because the other AM, FM, PCM styles lasted longer? The batteries in your TX don't last nearly as long, and WE ALL know why....it's because the computerized components take more juice to run. SO......WHY would you think that in your MUCH SMALLER battery pack that they would last as long as those you used to use with the other styles? After all, your RX is a computerized component.

Many of us go out and buy higher mAh batteries for our Transmitters. I go out and buy not only higher mAh batteries for my RX, I buy the 6Volt, which ADDS voltage to it! Keeps it further from the brownout voltage and adds another cell to enhance it futher.

MAN, I AM A GENIUS!!!!

Well, I suppose I could just complain about it when I've been well-informed as to the actual brownout voltage point. THAT will keep my planes flying.

Nah. I've never lost a plane to this. In fact, every one of my (also genius) friends in the many clubs in this city of well over a million people have never lost one. Like me, all they did was to take reasonable precautions. Like.....Not flying too many times without checking and/or charging. Like using 6-Volt packs when they have anything more than 4 basic style servos or higher Amp-draw servos. Like.....well, I'd say I've made my point here.

Don't blame the Manufacturer for having engineered radios that have prevented countless crashes due to taking hits from good friends who eventually will turn on a transmitter by accident without thinking when you're flying. We've all seen that. From garbage trucks with RF noise just CRUSHING the flying band. Train counters, door openers, and a hundred other things that could shoot planes down mysteriously....they've ALL been rendered virtually ineffective now.

Now, if we've ALL seen these things happen, and virtually ALL of us HAVE.... then why haven't we ALL seen all these Spektrum radios dropping planes willy-nilly from the sky? You make it sound like an epidemic. In point of fact, the number of incidents is SUCH a small fraction it's amazing the Manufacturer even bothered to admit that an issue could arise. They could have put spin on it and made a fortune selling all the gear that everybody ELSE is selling to "Combat" this deadly issue.

I....and every single one of my friends have taken multiple hits over the years due to RF incursion....I and every friend I have has lost multiple planes to mysterious radio problems. We've all seen THAT. Now, when about a QUARTER or a THIRD of my flying buddies can report having seen THIS phenomenon I'll start worrying. When HALF of them can report it I'll become concerned. But until ALL of them can report having seen it with regularity, I'm not even worried a little bit. It's STILL WAY BETTER THAN ANY OTHER RADIO I'VE EVER SEEN ANYWHERE, PERIOD!!!!

Remember where RC'ers came from. Ya pays yer money and ya takes yer chances!! Kinda like skiing. Ya might take home a broken leg here and there.

Your pal,

Jim

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RE: Spektrum DX-7 - 9/9/2009 4:43 AM   
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MAN, I AM A GENIUS!!!!

Well, I suppose I could just complain about it when I've been well-informed as to the actual brownout voltage point. THAT will keep my planes flying.

Nah. I've never lost a plane to this. In fact, every one of my (also genius) friends in the many clubs in this city of well over a million people have never lost one. Like me, all they did was to take reasonable precautions. Like.....Not flying too many times without checking and/or charging. Like using 6-Volt packs when they have anything more than 4 basic style servos or higher Amp-draw servos. Like.....well, I'd say I've made my point here.


Straight to the point! I guess I'm a genius too, I've never had a problem in 3 years. (I'm in the process of changing to A123 rx batteries). I have been shot down on 72MHz. I'll never go back.

bigbird

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RE: Spektrum DX-7 - 9/9/2009 4:50 AM   
TexasSkyPilot



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RE: Spektrum DX-7 - 9/9/2009 9:32 AM   
BaldEagel



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quote:

ORIGINAL: dick Hanson


quote:

ORIGINAL: BaldEagel

Why do we put up with a manufacturer that does not fix the problem of Brown out, but just makes the Rx turn back on quicker, it is unacceptable in my opionion for Spektrum not to have fixed this very real problem so that the Brown out does not happen so close too the maximum voltage of a four cell pack.

My DX7 Spektrum will not be flown in any of my airframes, a sad fact, but I just don't trust this manufacturer anymore.

Mike

You can't please everyone -
BTW- your evaluation of the low voltage cutoff is incorrect.


Your right Dick you can't please everyone, but the fix is just that, it was not a cure for the problem, just a quick fix that has not been taken to the extent of a permenant cure.

Why is my evaluation of the low voltage cutoff incorrect?

Oh and by the way I am also a genius, having never had a hit on my Spektrum, use only A123 batteries and flew other systems to evaluate against the Spektrum, my point is the manufacturer supplied 4 cell Nimh for the RX and servos and its been proved to be lacking and can be the cause of an inherant problem, this can not be justified even if I typed it in capitals.

Mike

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RE: Spektrum DX-7 - 9/9/2009 9:41 AM   
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RE: Spektrum DX-7 - 9/9/2009 2:18 PM   
smooreace


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BaldEagel



Oh and by the way I am also a genius, having never had a hit on my Spektrum, use only A123 batteries and flew other systems to evaluate against the Spektrum, my point is the manufacturer supplied 4 cell Nimh for the RX and servos and its been proved to be lacking and can be the cause of an inherent problem, this can not be justified even if I typed it in capitals.

Mike


I have been using, with whatever luck you want to infer, the original 4 cell pack that was included with my radio when I bout it 4 years ago. It still flies but PTS with the original servos and I have had NO issues with it... EVER. The only thing that has been proven is that some people have brownout issues, but most can easily be explained away as being the users failure to use a little common since with there individual plane. I don't care what power system you choose for your given aircraft, if you don't have a clean install, if you don't have a proper charge, if you fly with physically damaged batteries, if you have more draw in your system than a power plant can produce.... YOU WILL HAVE ISSUE! Extra insurance from A123 power might be a safer route, but is in no way needed if the Tx/Rx is used as shipped, as it is intended to be used. Modify that shipped package... modify the power source accordingly. Its a friggin no brainer. People are all to quick to blame someone else... its always someone elses problem, responsibility, fault. Screw it, lets sue the FCC for opening up the 2.4 gig freq. If they hadnt then we would have this debate, or the issues related to it.

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RE: Spektrum DX-7 - 9/9/2009 2:32 PM   
TexasSkyPilot



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quote:

ORIGINAL: BaldEagel

quote:

ORIGINAL: dick Hanson


quote:

ORIGINAL: BaldEagel

Why do we put up with a manufacturer that does not fix the problem of Brown out, but just makes the Rx turn back on quicker, it is unacceptable in my opionion for Spektrum not to have fixed this very real problem so that the Brown out does not happen so close too the maximum voltage of a four cell pack.

My DX7 Spektrum will not be flown in any of my airframes, a sad fact, but I just don't trust this manufacturer anymore.

Mike

You can't please everyone -
BTW- your evaluation of the low voltage cutoff is incorrect.


Your right Dick you can't please everyone, but the fix is just that, it was not a cure for the problem, just a quick fix that has not been taken to the extent of a permenant cure.

Why is my evaluation of the low voltage cutoff incorrect?

Oh and by the way I am also a genius, having never had a hit on my Spektrum, use only A123 batteries and flew other systems to evaluate against the Spektrum, my point is the manufacturer supplied 4 cell Nimh for the RX and servos and its been proved to be lacking and can be the cause of an inherant problem, this can not be justified even if I typed it in capitals.

Mike


Nope, that is INCORRECTOMUNDO......

The Manufacturer supplied an 1100 mAh 4-cell pack that comes with standard servos, and that setup is fine as froggie hair and will do perfectly. It has been proven to be no problem at all. I and many of my friends use that setup as well.

Should you start adding high-draw components and fail to add any of the basics in supporting gear, you have NOBODY to blame but yourself when you crash.

Do you know that my Thunder Power charger shuts itself off when the voltage supplying it drops to 10.5 volts. I wonder why that is? Who cares? Let's blame the manufacturer. I don't care WHY some kind of safety is built into a piece of technology, I just want to BLAME somebody when I fail to use it right.

Speed controllers are set up with a shutoff that disconnects the LiPos when they drop to a certain voltage. I wonder why that is? Let's BLAME THE MANUFACTURER!!! I don't care that the safety is designed to save my expensive batteries, I wanna BLAME somebody!!!!

Now let's look at the Spektrums again. These are computerized RXs, so their effective voltage had to be set to blink at SOME voltage. If these were run at a base Voltage of 48 Volts on batteries that are charged to usually around 53 volts, and your batteries were wearing down, where would YOU set the cutoff? It's computerized, there is a cutoff, get over that part. Where would YOU put it??? Let's see, we've run it from 53 all the way down to 35, that's more than HALF of the battery's voltage!! (51.42% to be exact...) I'd say that, using a chart that shows the normal usable voltage of a niCad or a NiMh battery that we've pretty much taken ALL of the usable voltage. Beyond this it's going to just dump... so you're gonna crash anyway.

So, WHERE exactly do you expect it to come from? As I already pointed out, they have provided a battery that is quite sufficient for the setup they come with. Provided that you are actually smart enough to use a Voltmeter and charge your battery when it needs it, and the Manufacturer has to extend the trust at some point that you are at least THAT capable.

This leaves the only logical assumption. It has to come from YOU. YOU have to have enoughs brains to know that more draw requires more battery. YOU have been told about the voltage cutoff, so YOU are forewarned AND forearmed. YOU want to use the system for MORE than it comes standard with, so YOU need to increase the voltage, increase the battery size, COMPENSATE for YOUR CHANGES to the stock setup.

There IS NO CURE REQUIRED. If you put a bigger engine on the nose, you beef up the nose. If you're gonna fly it hard, you wrap the wing joint in fiberglass tape. You know the engine can pull the nose off. You know the wing can fold.

And here you KNOW the voltage where it cuts off. Quitcher B[]TCHIN and use your head. BEEF IT UP. USE YOUR KNOWLEDGE.

Many tens of thousands of us are using these without incident. And to be sure, we are all genuises. Or maybe we realize that a tiny fraction of one percent of us having problems statistically means it's almost PERFECT. Because prior to these radios coming out, WE ALL lost planes to the hundreds of diffrent kinds of hits out there.....hits these radios prevent.

Some of us just can't seem to enjoy anything, almost like they need to B[]TCH about SOMETHING. Not this boy. I love my DX7 Spektrum radio. More piece of mind, and one less potential reason for bringing home the dreaded Bag-O-Balsa!! And so do ALL of my flying buddies here in San Antonio, TX!!

Jimbo

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RE: Spektrum DX-7 - 9/9/2009 2:42 PM   
TexasSkyPilot



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quote:

ORIGINAL: onewasp


quote:

ORIGINAL: smooreace

I cant really find any reason to ahve a second radio, but I can surely pt those unrelaible POS recievers to use wastfully wieghing down a few plane I have that are without recievers ATM. I can always use ballast, especially when it has the Spektrum name on it!



I take it that is based on all 3 years of your experience right?



I think he's saying that he would like to HAVE those Rxs that the other guys just don't seem to want or like. Sounds like a great solution for all involved! See ya at the flying field with all those newly-enabled, newly balanced planes, smooreace!

Jimbo

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RE: Spektrum DX-7 - 9/9/2009 2:51 PM   
TexasSkyPilot



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quote:

ORIGINAL: bigbird007

quote:

MAN, I AM A GENIUS!!!!

Well, I suppose I could just complain about it when I've been well-informed as to the actual brownout voltage point. THAT will keep my planes flying.

Nah. I've never lost a plane to this. In fact, every one of my (also genius) friends in the many clubs in this city of well over a million people have never lost one. Like me, all they did was to take reasonable precautions. Like.....Not flying too many times without checking and/or charging. Like using 6-Volt packs when they have anything more than 4 basic style servos or higher Amp-draw servos. Like.....well, I'd say I've made my point here.


Straight to the point! I guess I'm a genius too, I've never had a problem in 3 years. (I'm in the process of changing to A123 rx batteries). I have been shot down on 72MHz. I'll never go back.

bigbird



bigbird,

We've ALL been shot down. As a matter of fact, prior to the outcome of these lovely radios, the percentage of pilots that had NOT been shot down by interference, THOSE were the Tiny fraction of a percentage point. The Spektrums have completely reversed those numbers. I'm amazed that people can complain about them after what they've achieved. It's nearly a miracle if you ask me.

Any of us who have been around a while know the REAL story. We KNOW the value of these radios.

Jimbo

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RE: Spektrum DX-7 - 9/9/2009 4:08 PM   
smooreace


 

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Status: offline 		The problem may also be that some see that Spektrum radios are significantly cheaper with 7 channels (the Dx7 anyway) that the oh so great overpriced JR and Futaba models with their 10 and 12 channels. What are the specs of the smaller JR radio as far as brownout power level vs. batter supplied with the kit? Do we think that the $1000 FAAST system has no power cutoff? Is it Fords fault that the Mustang seems to stop running abruptly after the gas gauge hits empty? Dodge needs to create a bottomless fuel cell of sorts so they don't have the same issue. BMW and Mercedes have work on this for years, but in the end... sh][t doesn't run any more when its out of go juice!

< Message edited by RCKen -- 9/17/2009 1:39 PM >

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RE: Spektrum DX-7 - 9/9/2009 4:53 PM   
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Status: offline 		Spektrum and JR use the same receivers and the TX's use the same tech so don't try to separate them. Also don't try to claim that Futaba never said they don't have a power cutoff level as they never did. Their cutoff is simply much lower, in the order of 2.4 volts approx. The servos slow/stop before the RX drops out. This can NEVER be said for a JR/Spektrum system no matter what battery system is used. The JR/Spektrum system would be a much better system IMO if they could lower the cutoff point of the RX. Until then I'll stick with Futaba and the JR/Spektrum proponents can have their favorites. It's just that simple.

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RE: Spektrum DX-7 - 9/9/2009 5:10 PM   
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Status: offline 		Why in the world would you let the voltage drop that low. A 4.8 volt batt. is considered dead at 4.8 volts. If I remember the low volts for the Spekrum is around 3.6 volts. I fly a 1/4 scale Starlet on the 4 cell Spektrum batt. with full confidence recharging it when it gets to 5.2 volts. That's two 10 min flights. It's those that don't pay attention that get in deep doo doo.

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RE: Spektrum DX-7 - 9/10/2009 1:42 AM   
TexasSkyPilot



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ORIGINAL: Flypaper 2

Why in the world would you let the voltage drop that low. A 4.8 volt batt. is considered dead at 4.8 volts. If I remember the low volts for the Spekrum is around 3.6 volts. I fly a 1/4 scale Starlet on the 4 cell Spektrum batt. with full confidence recharging it when it gets to 5.2 volts. That's two 10 min flights. It's those that don't pay attention that get in deep doo doo.



Exactly, and well said. Low volts for the Spektrum is about 3.4 to 3.5, but you've got the idea, it's WAY low. Any fool flying at 2.4 volts on a 4.8 cell battery is REALLY, REALLY, REALLY,REALLY,REALLY not TOO AWFUL BRIGHT! Kinda like a light bulb powered by those 2.4-Volt batteries. These guys are fighting for the rights of lazy pilots to endanger people and property.

The mods won't let me say that somebody is a &^*&%$#%^&*&$# Id[]0T.....


Jimbo

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RE: Spektrum DX-7 - 9/10/2009 7:44 AM   
BaldEagel



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Status: offline 		Well that certainly got everyone going didn't it, including some very rude replies, nothing came out of this that changes the fact that the Spektrum Rx's will brown out before the servo's stop working, most other Rx's will still keep working until the servo's start to slow down an indication on the field that something is wrong, I suppose I have to say here that I don't let my batteries get that low before some smarty pants tells me I am being stupid again.

The real answer to this problem is to never use a 4 cell pack, preferably use a two cell 2300Mah A123 pack at least its voltage stability will prevent a Brown out from happening until it reaches the cliff which in my experience is not until you have used 2000Mah of its capacity, not that I let it get that low, had to say that before someone jumps on me again, recharging after four flights on the field is not a problem with the chaging capacity of A123's its only the last 10% that takes the time to put back in for full capacity.

Even JR have suddenly realised the benifit of higher voltage servo's, for years you could only use 4 cell packs with them, I wonder if the new servo's being able to operate on higher voltage has anything to do with the 2.4Ghz Rx voltage??

Mike

EDIT: Anyone come accross the false Delta Peak that the latest Nimh batteries can give? this would give you a false sence of security on how much charge you have in your batteries.



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RE: Spektrum DX-7 - 9/10/2009 12:50 PM   
TexasSkyPilot



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Status: offline 		Spektrum and JR standard servos are as strong as anybody else's standard servos, and tough as nails. That's all one needs for a standard 4-channel application, which is simply a baseline, base-cost setup for getting into the hobby with a good radio.

The real answer.......is to use the 4-cell pack for what it was intended for, and to beef up the battery pack and voltage when you beef up your usage. Accomodate your setup and you'll never have a problem. Simple. The voltage at cutoff is so low that nobody should ever be flying when it's that low. The only other way to drop the voltage to that level is in a reverse "spike" caused by something momentarily pulling a heavy draw, which is another way of saying that they overtaxed their setup and didn't accomodate.

I've used 5-cell 6-Volt packs with my JR radios for many years now, 14 years I think. I didn't use retracts so I've never had an issue. Most of their other servos can handle 6V, as could the RXs.

And you're not stupid. Stubborn, perhaps, but hey, it's a guy thing.

I HAVE noticed that my newest batteries are showing awfully good numbers. You say it's a false Delta peak? I did wonder about that .....

Jimbo

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RE: Spektrum DX-7 - 9/10/2009 3:06 PM   
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Status: offline 		The brown out thing is a a dead issue.
The 6100 rx DID have this issue to be sure two years ago
the issue of trying to se who can run on the least amount of of remaining power is part of an intelligence test in my book
IF you look at the total package of THE Rx /batts/ ESC/regs/BEC and servos working in concert, you will see that a weak link anywhre gives the same net reult.
The Spektrums quit at a bit over constant 3 volts
so does power on any modern servo
The brown outs occurred when low voltage spikes hit the processor (the rx is an itty bitty computer)
If you look at some ignition systems for gassers - this same thing occurred.
A scope will show what's happening -but if one simply looks at the voltage rating on a battery pack - nothing is learned.
The A123's mentioned are -in my book easily the best battery technology presently available
Howevere they will just like the rx - stop working at a certain level and th warning is very abrupt.
I use em on everything including power source for some of my really hard core aerobatic electrics.
regulators are devices of last resort -in my book - the very best of em still can act as a "power restriction. heat em up and power flow drops.
When I got my first 2.4 radios (Spektrum) the obvious difference from the previous technology was the antenna size .
Some guys p and moan about secondary rx but there is no disputing the fact that the rx must have a path to see the tx signal
The secondary rx are just good insurance -Ithink Spektrum was right in trying to alert users to the need for antenna and rx diversity.
a long set of whisker (coax extensions ) do the same thing
Some models don't need it but for a couple of grams well worth th e increase safety margin
I have watched 200 mph jets with the rx buried in the electronics compartment - but the secondary rx pull in all the info needed.
If you bear in mind that you need ood signal reception and batts that wil lhandle ANY possible loads - you cover 99%of 2.4 problems By the way the higher voltage servos were done to permit more power to be moved in th small conductors we all use (servo wires
By raising the the voltage (especially the true voltage ) mor watts can travle in the same small wire
get yer mom to explain this if necessary.





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RE: Spektrum DX-7 - 9/11/2009 5:07 AM   
TexasSkyPilot



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Status: offline 		heheheh.....

Jimbo

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RE: Spektrum DX-7 - 9/11/2009 5:39 AM   
fast_eddie70



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Status: offline 		I agree with Dick H, Nice write up. Let’s PLEASE get this forum back to a Technical Forum and not a place to argue and complain.



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RE: Spektrum DX-7 - 9/11/2009 1:11 PM   
TexasSkyPilot



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Status: offline 		The arguing is actually on-point. We call this phenomenon; "points of view" and as far as I can see there are many technical points being presented.

I agree with Dick Hanson that the brown-out is a dead issue. To me, NOT to others who want to try to create a panic about it. So, as much as I wish that Dick COULD be the Brown-out police and judge and truly declare it a dead issue, that isn't the case.

And to be honest, Dick's post hemmorhaged technodata, and about 5 percent of the folks who are in here to get a handle on what the Spektrum brown-out is all about actually could stay awake through to the end of it. Don't get me wrong, I LIKED what he wrote. But I'm an engineer and we actually have college courses on how to stay away while reading through piles of data that could cure an insomniac.

A technical thread this is, but it is frequented by the lay-folk of the hobby. And ideas are always black and white, and to be honest, some people just enjoy stirring up trouble. As is the case with these brown-outs.

Knowledgeable people who have taken the time to research this know that nobody who takes even a normal amount of care making sure their setup is right will experience the brownouts. But those aren't the ones running around claiming that JR/Spektrum has invented a new way for the sky to fall.

There is NO WAY to do this thread without arguing. Both sides are going to present positions and things will get heated up here and there. Understand that the people who are stirring things up KNOW they are stirring things up, KNOW it's not really an issue out there, KNOW that the occurrance is a tiny fraction of one percent, KNOW that those numbers anywhere else would establish the technology as almost PERFECT.

But they also know that if they keep pushing that they'll get a snowball rolling downhill and maybe they can make a mountain out of a molehill. And me? Why, I'm here for one reason as well. To spoil THEIR day. To be the Ying to their Yang. The be the voice of reason standing there right after Chicken Little has run past us screaming out....

To do something worthwhile in here.

We're on point. Believe it.

Jimbo

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RE: Spektrum DX-7 - 9/11/2009 1:32 PM   
king_arthur1953



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Status: offline 		Well said Tex. And yes I read the whole post..... and yes I am in the geek club..... just an old geek. Also I am living proof the A123 batteries fall off the cliff. Charge those dang things. I'm going back to sleep now.

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RE: Spektrum DX-7 - 9/11/2009 6:34 PM   
BaldEagel



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Status: offline 		Human nature is a strange phenomenum, if you disagree with even the smallest thing that someone thinks is the Bees Knees you will be told the issue is dead, you are an idiot and that your mother may know something you don't, I do find some of the replies to be over emotional, the facts of the matter are that the Spektrum/JR Rx's still switch off if the supply voltage drops to a level where most other Rx's will keep on working, The fix was to make the Rx capable of switching back on quicker, not to stop it happening, not to raise the threashold of the voltage drop out, but to enable the Rx to switch back on quicker, IMO and it is my opinion to wich I am entitled this is a stop gap fix and not a cure for what is a potential airframe destroying fault.

No one is imune to this and plenty of big names out there had this issue when it first read its head, the current fix is to have two large battery inputs into the Rx bus, I can see this being of benift if you are using multiple digital servo's in a large 3D machine, but meanwhile I just wish Spektrum would come up with a cure for this fault and not just a quick fix.

Mike

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RE: Spektrum DX-7 - 9/11/2009 7:15 PM   
smooreace


 

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Status: offline 		I always thought that they had cured the problem when they told those that couldn't figure it out themselves to use larger batteries on setups that obviously needed them. I guess I should be more concerned now that I find out otherwise. Thanks for setting me strait!

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RE: Spektrum DX-7 - 9/11/2009 8:07 PM   
bruce88123


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: smooreace

I always thought that they had cured the problem when they told those that couldn't figure it out themselves to use larger batteries on setups that obviously needed them. I guess I should be more concerned now that I find out otherwise. Thanks for setting me strait!

Isn't that like telling you not to stand in front of a killer shooting at you with a gun instead of getting rid of the gun/killer? Placing the blame in the wrong place IMO. And before you ask, I'm NOT anti-gun or anti-Spektrum. I'm anti-crash. In my earlier post I was NOT advocating running batteries down to 2.4 volts, only stating Futaba operated that low, NOT that they should be. I would imagine Spektrum/JR is investigating to find a way to reduce their brown-out level in future incarnations. Only time will tell. Until then go ahead and use A123's or your boat batteries, I don't care. It's your stuff. Just please don't tell us we aren't allowed to have opinions because we are.

OK, time to hear from the Spektrum/JR shills again.

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