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RE: ASP 180 fs - 4/9/2007 3:46 PM   
GMoneyPit



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Status: offline 		Are you sure the low end isn't too rich? Will it die as soon as you remove the glow starter, or does it die even without removing it?

Gary

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RE: ASP 180 fs - 4/9/2007 6:25 PM   
Patxipt


 

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Status: offline 		yallaair, try richenning the low speed needle a quarter turn more.
I had the same problem with my FS30AR, with the needle just set for a good transition (and given the OK by the pich test) the engine would die after half a minute at idle. 4 glowplugs later, I opened the low speed needle until I could hear a good detonation, with the engine thumping strongly at idle and it's set!
These ASP take a while to break-in, especially if running on full synth oil, needing a bigger fuel charge at idle to sustain the heat on the glow plug.

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RE: ASP 180 fs - 4/9/2007 7:27 PM   
IronCross



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Status: offline 		As Patxipt said above... I went through the same thing with my Mag .01's... Was used to running Saito's... I had the Mag set for good transition and the pinch test also sounded good.. Still the idle was very undependable.. I richened the low end until it sounded like it was running too rich (compared to a Saito) and it is now a very dependable sweet running engine... Can't believe the price and performance on these... It's a win win..
I am running 15 percent PowerMaster and a OS F plug in mine with no problems...

< Message edited by IronCross -- 4/9/2007 7:30 PM >

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RE: ASP 180 fs - 4/9/2007 8:39 PM   
yallaair



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I've been adjusting the low end and high end needles in and out. The high speed setting is OK. But the low end has been adjusted in / out approx. 1/8 of a turn at the time, till the engine stopps of too rich and too lean setting. Nothing helps.

However, there is a significant leakage from the exhaust gas valve. When I crank the engine slowly by hand, there is a air leakage that can be easily heard. The engine has "no compression" if turned slowly by hand. I don't know if this is normal on this engine size, by the smaller ASP 91 fs is nothing like this at all.

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RE: ASP 180 fs - 4/21/2007 1:45 AM   
yallaair



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Status: offline 		I have been testing the ASP 180 FS quite extensively. I found out that I have to install a on board glow system to make this engine run safely. The leakage though the exhaust valve is concerning me a little bit. Maybe the leakage is reducing the compression at idle, and therefore it is impossible to get a steady running below 3000 RPM? Any suggestion how to grind this valve? Use a 400 grit grinding paste and grind the valve into the seat?

Appreciate any comments....

B.E

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RE: ASP 180 fs - 4/21/2007 2:42 AM   
mtwister


 

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Status: offline 		Why don't you send it in for repairs? If you have to ask how to repair it, I'd assume you're not mechanically inclined enough to make the repair, so why try?
quote:

ORIGINAL: yallaair

I have been testing the ASP 180 FS quite extensively. I found out that I have to install a on board glow system to make this engine run safely. The leakage though the exhaust valve is concerning me a little bit. Maybe the leakage is reducing the compression at idle, and therefore it is impossible to get a steady running below 3000 RPM? Any suggestion how to grind this valve? Use a 400 grit grinding paste and grind the valve into the seat?

Appreciate any comments....

B.E



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RE: ASP 180 fs - 4/21/2007 2:44 PM   
yallaair



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Status: offline 		The reason for not sending the engine back to sender or a workshop, is that the shipping costs will exceed or be quite close to the value of a new engine. It's sold by Peakmodel together with the edge 540. Had several problems with earlier SPE 26 engines from that vendor. Don't want to spend more money on shipment without any return on already payed S&H.

I'll just face the loss and try to repair it myself. I'm capable of repairing this myself. I'm doing this kind of repair regularly on big bore engines from 1000 HP to 14000HP Just want some feedback from people who has done this before on small (30ccm) model engines.

Not quite sure if this valve is a chorme-Nimonic plated valve or just a high tension steel valve. This is of importance how to grind the exhaust valve. Maybe 400 grit is too coarse, should consider 800 grit??

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RE: ASP 180 fs - 4/21/2007 4:13 PM   
NM2K


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: yallaair

The reason for not sending the engine back to sender or a workshop, is that the shipping costs will exceed or be quite close to the value of a new engine. It's sold by Peakmodel together with the edge 540. Had several problems with earlier SPE 26 engines from that vendor. Don't want to spend more money on shipment without any return on already payed S&H.

I'll just face the loss and try to repair it myself. I'm capable of repairing this myself. I'm doing this kind of repair regularly on big bore engines from 1000 HP to 14000HP Just want some feedback from people who has done this before on small (30ccm) model engines.

Not quite sure if this valve is a chorme-Nimonic plated valve or just a high tension steel valve. This is of importance how to grind the exhaust valve. Maybe 400 grit is too coarse, should consider 800 grit??



----------------


I'm just coming into this thread at this point, so please forgive me if my thoughts have been covered previously.

Are you using any castor oil in the fuel? The reason I ask is that the Chinese seem to put as much stock (faith) in castor oil as some of the old American engine makers and they seem to rely on castor varnish to help seal things up, so to speak.

I do not feel that your leaking exhaust valve is relevant to the situation. I do feel that a lack of break-in time and the possible absence of sufficient castor varnish in the engine is the real culprit. The engine is still not sufficiently broken-in, making it hyper sensitive to carb settings, fuel type, engine load (prop), etc. My Sanye engines (ASP, Magnum) steadily improve in their handling as they acquire running time. A gallon of fuel isn't much when one is breaking-in a 1.80.

I wouldn't panic just yet. I would continue to acquire running time before disassembling the engine. If you must use onboard glow for a while, so be it. It would not be unusual for an inverted engine installation anyway.

Forget making the engine idle reliable for longer than 30 seconds. That is an unreasonable goal for a glow equipped model airplane engine. These engines were not designed to idle like a lawn mower for minutes at a time, if this is a concern of yours. I've seen others post here express concern because their engine would not idle, or successfully recover, from a longer than 30 second idle. This is seldom used and is not required in typical model airplane usage.


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RE: ASP 180 fs - 4/21/2007 6:16 PM   
yallaair



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Status: offline 		You are problably right Ed.

Have also a couple of guys here in the club that says the engine needs more breaking in. However, this engine has only been broken in on synth oil, and your theory that the engine will be better "sealed" with a high viscosity castor oil is plausible! Test done with a lot of oil (23%) is supporting this theory. The engine is running better on this type of fuel.

The reason for the panic, is that my other 15ccm SANYE engines is running much smoother at idle. BTW, there is one factor I have not considered before you mentioned it, is the orientation of the engine. It's mounted approx. at 220 deg. looking from front and aftwards. The other engines is mounted at 270 deg. Problably that's the reason for the poor idle....

Previous tests of this type of engine ( my club mate's ASP 180 FS), has har shown a reliable idle at 2000-2200 RPM. But this one was mounted up right in a sturdy test stand. Also broken in and fuled with synth oil...

I'll run it with a onboard glow system and settle with that!

Best regards
B.E

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RE: ASP 180 fs - 4/22/2007 12:25 PM   
XJet


 

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Status: offline 		Several of the ASP 4-strokes in our club seem to have leaky exhaust valves for some reason (we use fuel containing a percentage of castor) but they still seem to run okay -- although the FS180 a friend uses has a very rough idle indeed.

If you were going to grind the valves I'd be tempted to use a very fine past (perhaps some Solvol Autosol metal polish) rather than conventional valve-grinding paste.

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RE: ASP 180 fs - 4/22/2007 11:31 PM   
asmund


 

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Status: offline 		One more thing to consider is the fuel tank height? Maybe fuel is siptoned when the engine is at idle. There are many problematic engines out there due to incorrect fuel tank placement because of badly designed ARF`s. Didn`t Dar Zeelon start a thread about this problem some time ago???

< Message edited by asmund -- 4/23/2007 12:10 AM >

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RE: ASP 180 fs - 8/15/2007 4:09 AM   
PA BEN


 

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Status: offline 		This might help.
REQUIRES: Glow Plug: Hot heat range specifically designed for Four-Stroke
engines, can use O.S. Max type-F (OSMG2692). Do not use cold heat
range plug or plug designed for Two-Stroke engines.
Fuel: Break-in 10% nitro & at least 18% castor/synthetic lubricant,
5%-30% nitro & 16%-11% castor or synthetic lubricant after break-in
Propeller: Break-in 16x8, 16x6-18x6 after break-in

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RE: ASP 180 fs - 8/15/2007 12:13 PM   
fiery


 

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Status: online 		Yallair,

Your new engine should not require glow heat to idle properly. I assume it is well run in, at least a couple of litres of fuel through it? If so I suggest as folllows:

Rough running at idle ... fuel is known to be fresh and good? Yes; plug tested by substitution? ... Yes; then; it may be an air leak on the intake side of the equation ...

Suggestion:

Remove Carb and intake manifold.

Strip carb and replace all "O" rings on the carb needles with new; and the "O" ring that seals the carb spigot to intake manifold union. Your local auto / speed store will have suitable "O "rings in stock. Take existing "O" rings in to get them matched up. As a last resort by them as spares ... at least Magnum/SC/ASP spares are reasonably priced!

Sometimes the "O" rings in new engines are damaged from new ... it can happen as they are installed "dry".

Always "lube" with synth oil any new "O" rings and the needle before installing. Take great care that they are not damaged when installing. Incorrectly seated, or the smallest nick, will result in an air leak - and the engine will never idle properly.

Check, and seal with suitable gasket compound, the flange between intake manifold and head. The smallest air leak ... and you will never have an acceptable idle.

Then test re-run on a new O.S. "F" plug, and the prescribed fuel.

I hope you get the big fellow sorted!

fiery

P.S

A good "whitening" toothpaste ( the type advertised for polishing stained teeth) should be sufficient as a grinding paste to lap in the exhaust valve.; If not, I would use Autosol metal polish, as suggested by X-jet. Automotive valve grinding pastes are too coarse (as a rule) for our engines.





< Message edited by fiery -- 8/15/2007 12:20 PM >

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RE: ASP 180 fs - 8/24/2007 10:24 PM   
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Status: offline 		I have an ASP 80fs, I had problems at the start with low end running and idle, turned out to be an air leak around carb/manifold, the o-ring was not sealing properly, (when priming you could hear and see fuel and air leak from it) so I fitted a new o-ring and now she runs very very well. With the cheaper engines, just have to keep an eye out for things like this, I suspect something like an OS FS200s to have higher quality control, but you pay the price! I have a SC 180fs on order, after battling for months with a duff Peak 26cc.

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RE: ASP 180 fs - 8/25/2007 1:28 AM   
yallaair



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Status: offline 		Hi and thanks for replay!

I've tested all what's been mentioned, replaced all o-rings, new glow plug ( o.s F), lapped exh. valve and seat with toothpaste, engine orientation, tested with 3 different fuels (Wilcat 30/23, Wilcat 15/18, and a local brand 15/15 synth fuel).

Removed headshims and tested to see any difference. This contributed nothing to improve performance.

Think the rough running problem is due to bad machining tolerances in tha carb and inlet / exh. valves. This leads to leaks during running, hence it looses compression when the engine exhaust valve gets cold during idle.

However, top end performance is good, 8200 RPM on a Volk 18x6 (17lbs thrust). Still the idle is rough. Problem partially solved with a onboard glow system. Still this engine will not idle nearly as smooth as my 30gal. old Saito 80....

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RE: ASP 180 fs - 8/25/2007 4:53 AM   
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Status: offline 		I went through all this BS with a Magnum .91 and I have to say, that after spending $180 plus shipping and ending up with an engine that did not perform well. I then bought an OS .91 which I paid $50 more for, but runs perfecct. It makes me think that the extra $50 is money well spent. Magnums are bit of a crap shoot or maybe some of us are just more picky, I don't know, but it is unlikely I will purchase another, no matter how cheap they are. Engines that don't run properly are just crash waiting to happen.

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RE: ASP 180 fs - 8/25/2007 5:01 AM   
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Status: offline 		I had a 61 with this problem. I think mine was leaking between the valve seat inserts and the head? It leaked at the intake and exhaust. Had a good lap pattern on both valves and seats. Head shim was not leaking.

It eventually smoothed out after 3 or 4 gal. I think the leaks filled with carbon?

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RE: ASP 180 fs - 9/20/2007 12:25 AM   
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Status: offline 		I bought my Son a Magnum 180 4st, in fact it's running on the bench as I type, I bought the Magnum over the other brands to save a bit on the price but mainly because I have seen how well the other Magnums run in our club,,

I have to say I do NOT believe any RC glow motor ( 2 st or 4) will brake-in within only 2 gallons, I had to replace the rear bearing in my OS 50 heli motor at 2.6 gallons and the ring was still black, so with that maybe after 4 or 5 gallons the ring would have been broken in,, it took about 1/2 to 2/3s gallon for the compression to come-up on this Magnum 180,,

on the stand with the Magnum 180 I am on the last tank of the 2 gallon of 0% nitro 21% oil (16% Synthetic/5% Castor),, when this last tank of 0% is gone and the motor is on the plane I will run 1 gallon of 10% 2st fuel threw it as the manual recommends, then I will go to 15% or 20% 4st fuel,,

with this 0% she will idle pretty good at 2400, she will turn an APC 16x8 over 9000, sometimes she will start good sometimes she will start hard, she doesn't like to start hot but I think that is do to she like's to start a bit rich, it's hard to prime with a hot muffler,, she will probably start better and idle lower and smoother once I start using nitro,,

I find the high-end needle leaks a bit of fuel but it only seams to leak at full throttle, yet she will keep a steady RPM, I will get a new O-ring,,

for the first 1 & 1/4 gallon I had to reset the rocker arms lash every 2 tanks (their lash was loosening) but now the rockers seem to be keeping their lash much better..

Jim

< Message edited by the Wasp -- 9/20/2007 12:30 AM >

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RE: ASP 180 fs - 9/20/2007 3:06 AM   
fiery


 

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Status: online 		Thanks Jim

Please post back with how she performs once you have a few tanks of the 10% fuel through her ...

I still have not run mine (ASP 1.80) due to personal issues, but hope to do so soon. How is the vibration, compared to say a Saito 1.80, assuming you have seen one run?

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RE: ASP 180 fs - 9/20/2007 11:14 PM   
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Status: offline 		you know I'm not sure what prop to us on the Magnum 180 4st,, I like to use large low pitch props because not only are they more efficient you don't need as much throttle for the prop to pull the plane,,

I would like to use an APC 18x6w but the prop-hub is to small for this prop, so I have an APC 17x8w coming, but I know it's not going to perform as well as that 18x6 would..

Jim

< Message edited by the Wasp -- 9/20/2007 11:15 PM >

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RE: ASP 180 fs - 9/21/2007 2:20 AM   
yallaair



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Status: offline 		I have been using Volk 18x6, and gets abt 17 lbf og thrust on this prop. Still, after a lot of testing and different fuels, glowplugs, headshims, leaktests and valve lapping, the idle is quite rough. There is a remarkable "leak" though the exhaust valve.... Maybe this is the reason for the rough idle. I have to use a glow system to get a good steady idle.

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RE: ASP 180 fs - 9/21/2007 7:37 AM   
XJet


 

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Status: offline 		The ASP180 in our club has settled down quite a bit now that it's on about its fourth gallon of fuel. We also switched it to Coopers oil and that's made a *huge* difference to the smoothness of the idle when compared to CoolPower.

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RE: ASP 180 fs - 9/25/2007 12:31 AM   
the Wasp


 

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Status: offline 		Magnum 180 4st,,

well after running 2 gallons of 0% I wanted to run at least 1 tank 10% 2st threw it (on the bench) before I mounted it to the plane,,

what a differences !! she ran "much" smoother (as I knew she would) and she started on the fist flip, she idled very smooth at 2500, at 2300 she was vibrating, but I didn't mess with the idle screw, I will do that once she is on the plane and at the field with the larger prop,, any hoo, she ran much smoother at all RPMs with the 10% and she turned the APC 16x8 at 8600, I have an APC 17x8 waiting for the plane,,

I like large diameter low pitch props, with such a prop you don't need to use so much throttle to fly your plane, and I have help many fliers straighten out tuning problems with going to larger ID lower pitched props,, I wanted to use an APC 18x6 in the air but the motor's hub is to small for that prop, so I bought the 17x8, it will be OK for a while, maybe I will just buy a wood prop..

Jim

< Message edited by the Wasp -- 9/25/2007 12:36 AM >

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RE: ASP 180 fs - 9/25/2007 7:19 PM   
alan turner


 

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From: mount george adelaide, RI, AUSTRALIA
Status: offline 		Hey Buddy
I have the same negine in a big sport biplane, I run it on 10-15nitro and a 17x6 zinger and she runs like a sewing machine it has an idle that no one would believe but I am at a loss as to what engine mount to use I have the largest great planes adjustable carbon glass mount and it is vibrating like an SOB any clues I have cruised the internet trying for a big ally one but to no avail I don't like the two piece du bro ones and help would be appreciated? Alan Turner Adelaide south australia

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RE: ASP 180 fs - 9/25/2007 9:13 PM   
stew007


 

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Status: offline 		I ran my new Super Custom 180fs at the weekend for the first time.

It's it the first engine that I have owned that has started on the very first flick straight into a reliable idle! running 20% castor and 5% nitro.

first tank I alternated between full throttle and idle, second tank started first bump, leaned her out a bit more, third thank leaned even more to get a slightly rich setting, also leaned the low end a little and she runs sweet as a nut! throttles superb right of a slow idle. A few more tanks and she will be ready for the air. This is a very nice engine

Stew

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