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RE: ASP 180 fs - 4/9/2007 12:46:05 PM   
GMoneyPit



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Are you sure the low end isn't too rich? Will it die as soon as you remove the glow starter, or does it die even without removing it?

Gary

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RE: ASP 180 fs - 4/9/2007 3:25:03 PM   
Patxipt


 

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yallaair, try richenning the low speed needle a quarter turn more.
I had the same problem with my FS30AR, with the needle just set for a good transition (and given the OK by the pich test) the engine would die after half a minute at idle. 4 glowplugs later, I opened the low speed needle until I could hear a good detonation, with the engine thumping strongly at idle and it's set!
These ASP take a while to break-in, especially if running on full synth oil, needing a bigger fuel charge at idle to sustain the heat on the glow plug.

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RE: ASP 180 fs - 4/9/2007 4:27:59 PM   
IronCross



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As Patxipt said above... I went through the same thing with my Mag .01's... Was used to running Saito's... I had the Mag set for good transition and the pinch test also sounded good.. Still the idle was very undependable.. I richened the low end until it sounded like it was running too rich (compared to a Saito) and it is now a very dependable sweet running engine... Can't believe the price and performance on these... It's a win win..
I am running 15 percent PowerMaster and a OS F plug in mine with no problems...

< Message edited by IronCross -- 4/9/2007 4:30:09 PM >


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RE: ASP 180 fs - 4/9/2007 5:39:26 PM   
yallaair



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FYI
I've been adjusting the low end and high end needles in and out. The high speed setting is OK. But the low end has been adjusted in / out approx. 1/8 of a turn at the time, till the engine stopps of too rich and too lean setting. Nothing helps.

However, there is a significant leakage from the exhaust gas valve. When I crank the engine slowly by hand, there is a air leakage that can be easily heard. The engine has "no compression" if turned slowly by hand. I don't know if this is normal on this engine size, by the smaller ASP 91 fs is nothing like this at all.

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RE: ASP 180 fs - 4/20/2007 10:45:09 PM   
yallaair



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I have been testing the ASP 180 FS quite extensively. I found out that I have to install a on board glow system to make this engine run safely. The leakage though the exhaust valve is concerning me a little bit. Maybe the leakage is reducing the compression at idle, and therefore it is impossible to get a steady running below 3000 RPM? Any suggestion how to grind this valve? Use a 400 grit grinding paste and grind the valve into the seat?

Appreciate any comments....

B.E

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RE: ASP 180 fs - 4/20/2007 11:42:00 PM   
mtwister


 

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Why don't you send it in for repairs? If you have to ask how to repair it, I'd assume you're not mechanically inclined enough to make the repair, so why try?
quote:

ORIGINAL: yallaair

I have been testing the ASP 180 FS quite extensively. I found out that I have to install a on board glow system to make this engine run safely. The leakage though the exhaust valve is concerning me a little bit. Maybe the leakage is reducing the compression at idle, and therefore it is impossible to get a steady running below 3000 RPM? Any suggestion how to grind this valve? Use a 400 grit grinding paste and grind the valve into the seat?

Appreciate any comments....

B.E


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RE: ASP 180 fs - 4/21/2007 11:44:39 AM   
yallaair



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The reason for not sending the engine back to sender or a workshop, is that the shipping costs will exceed or be quite close to the value of a new engine. It's sold by Peakmodel together with the edge 540. Had several problems with earlier SPE 26 engines from that vendor. Don't want to spend more money on shipment without any return on already payed S&H.

I'll just face the loss and try to repair it myself. I'm capable of repairing this myself. I'm doing this kind of repair regularly on big bore engines from 1000 HP to 14000HP Just want some feedback from people who has done this before on small (30ccm) model engines.

Not quite sure if this valve is a chorme-Nimonic plated valve or just a high tension steel valve. This is of importance how to grind the exhaust valve. Maybe 400 grit is too coarse, should consider 800 grit??

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RE: ASP 180 fs - 4/21/2007 1:13:05 PM   
Ed Cregger



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quote:

ORIGINAL: yallaair

The reason for not sending the engine back to sender or a workshop, is that the shipping costs will exceed or be quite close to the value of a new engine. It's sold by Peakmodel together with the edge 540. Had several problems with earlier SPE 26 engines from that vendor. Don't want to spend more money on shipment without any return on already payed S&H.

I'll just face the loss and try to repair it myself. I'm capable of repairing this myself. I'm doing this kind of repair regularly on big bore engines from 1000 HP to 14000HP Just want some feedback from people who has done this before on small (30ccm) model engines.

Not quite sure if this valve is a chorme-Nimonic plated valve or just a high tension steel valve. This is of importance how to grind the exhaust valve. Maybe 400 grit is too coarse, should consider 800 grit??



----------------


I'm just coming into this thread at this point, so please forgive me if my thoughts have been covered previously.

Are you using any castor oil in the fuel? The reason I ask is that the Chinese seem to put as much stock (faith) in castor oil as some of the old American engine makers and they seem to rely on castor varnish to help seal things up, so to speak.

I do not feel that your leaking exhaust valve is relevant to the situation. I do feel that a lack of break-in time and the possible absence of sufficient castor varnish in the engine is the real culprit. The engine is still not sufficiently broken-in, making it hyper sensitive to carb settings, fuel type, engine load (prop), etc. My Sanye engines (ASP, Magnum) steadily improve in their handling as they acquire running time. A gallon of fuel isn't much when one is breaking-in a 1.80.

I wouldn't panic just yet. I would continue to acquire running time before disassembling the engine. If you must use onboard glow for a while, so be it. It would not be unusual for an inverted engine installation anyway.

Forget making the engine idle reliable for longer than 30 seconds. That is an unreasonable goal for a glow equipped model airplane engine. These engines were not designed to idle like a lawn mower for minutes at a time, if this is a concern of yours. I've seen others post here express concern because their engine would not idle, or successfully recover, from a longer than 30 second idle. This is seldom used and is not required in typical model airplane usage.


Ed Cregger



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RE: ASP 180 fs - 4/21/2007 3:16:18 PM   
yallaair



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You are problably right Ed.

Have also a couple of guys here in the club that says the engine needs more breaking in. However, this engine has only been broken in on synth oil, and your theory that the engine will be better "sealed" with a high viscosity castor oil is plausible! Test done with a lot of oil (23%) is supporting this theory. The engine is running better on this type of fuel.

The reason for the panic, is that my other 15ccm SANYE engines is running much smoother at idle. BTW, there is one factor I have not considered before you mentioned it, is the orientation of the engine. It's mounted approx. at 220 deg. looking from front and aftwards. The other engines is mounted at 270 deg. Problably that's the reason for the poor idle....

Previous tests of this type of engine ( my club mate's ASP 180 FS), has har shown a reliable idle at 2000-2200 RPM. But this one was mounted up right in a sturdy test stand. Also broken in and fuled with synth oil...

I'll run it with a onboard glow system and settle with that!

Best regards
B.E

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RE: ASP 180 fs - 4/22/2007 9:25:05 AM   
XJet


 

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Several of the ASP 4-strokes in our club seem to have leaky exhaust valves for some reason (we use fuel containing a percentage of castor) but they still seem to run okay -- although the FS180 a friend uses has a very rough idle indeed.

If you were going to grind the valves I'd be tempted to use a very fine past (perhaps some Solvol Autosol metal polish) rather than conventional valve-grinding paste.

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RE: ASP 180 fs - 4/22/2007 8:31:17 PM   
asmund


 

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One more thing to consider is the fuel tank height? Maybe fuel is siptoned when the engine is at idle. There are many problematic engines out there due to incorrect fuel tank placement because of badly designed ARF`s. Didn`t Dar Zeelon start a thread about this problem some time ago???

< Message edited by asmund -- 4/22/2007 9:10:37 PM >

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RE: ASP 180 fs - 8/15/2007 1:09:01 AM   
PA BEN


 

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This might help.
REQUIRES: Glow Plug: Hot heat range specifically designed for Four-Stroke
engines, can use O.S. Max type-F (OSMG2692). Do not use cold heat
range plug or plug designed for Two-Stroke engines.
Fuel: Break-in 10% nitro & at least 18% castor/synthetic lubricant,
5%-30% nitro & 16%-11% castor or synthetic lubricant after break-in
Propeller: Break-in 16x8, 16x6-18x6 after break-in

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RE: ASP 180 fs - 8/15/2007 9:13:55 AM   
fiery


 

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Yallair,

Your new engine should not require glow heat to idle properly. I assume it is well run in, at least a couple of litres of fuel through it? If so I suggest as folllows:

Rough running at idle ... fuel is known to be fresh and good? Yes; plug tested by substitution? ... Yes; then; it may be an air leak on the intake side of the equation ...

Suggestion:

Remove Carb and intake manifold.

Strip carb and replace all "O" rings on the carb needles with new; and the "O" ring that seals the carb spigot to intake manifold union. Your local auto / speed store will have suitable "O "rings in stock. Take existing "O" rings in to get them matched up. As a last resort by them as spares ... at least Magnum/SC/ASP spares are reasonably priced!

Sometimes the "O" rings in new engines are damaged from new ... it can happen as they are installed "dry".

Always "lube" with synth oil any new "O" rings and the needle before installing. Take great care that they are not damaged when installing. Incorrectly seated, or the smallest nick, will result in an air leak - and the engine will never idle properly.

Check, and seal with suitable gasket compound, the flange between intake manifold and head. The smallest air leak ... and you will never have an acceptable idle.

Then test re-run on a new O.S. "F" plug, and the prescribed fuel.

I hope you get the big fellow sorted!

fiery

P.S

A good "whitening" toothpaste ( the type advertised for polishing stained teeth) should be sufficient as a grinding paste to lap in the exhaust valve.; If not, I would use Autosol metal polish, as suggested by X-jet. Automotive valve grinding pastes are too coarse (as a rule) for our engines.





< Message edited by fiery -- 8/15/2007 9:20:42 AM >

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RE: ASP 180 fs - 8/24/2007 7:24:25 PM   
stew007


 

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