Saito 180 Break In Fuel (Full Version)

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firstclassplt -> Saito 180 Break In Fuel (1/19/2003 4:17:01 AM)

Anyone have a suggestion besides the operation manual, on a fuel that is sufficient for breaking in my new Saito 180? I understand what the manual suggests, but just wanted to know if there are Saito users that suggest otherwise.

Thanks,
Richard



Wildcat Fuels -> Four stroke fuels (1/19/2003 4:35:54 AM)

Any fuel with 18% oil content would be fine. I suggest an all synthetic fuel to keep the lifters and valves clean. Below is a reprint from our web site explaining this more fully:

Four Stroke Fuel Facts
There are many myths about four strokes and fuel composition; we will simply state the facts.

First - Four stroke engines require more lubrication than do 2-stroke engines. This is do to the number of moving parts. Unlike a 2-stroke, a 4-stroke does not have the benefit of raw fuel and oil pumping through its crankcase for lubrication. A 4-stroke draws it's fuel in from the top of the cylinder by the down stoke of the piston. Lubrication is accomplished by blow-by at the BDC (bottom dead center) and run-down of oil through the lifter tubes. This oil must migrate to the bearings as well, therefore, volume is essential. (See disassembled 4-stroke -vs- 2-stroke below for comparision). Yes, despite the nonsense that some would try to get you to believe it's that simple.

Second - Wildcat recommends the lubrication package be totally synthetic. The use of synthetic oil is important in four stroke engines to prevent gumming and varnishing of the lifters and coking of the valves. Varnishing will occur on castor based fuels. This can lead to sticking valves, which will cause the valve set to get knocked out of time. Coking of the valves will cause improper seating of the valves causing a reduction in compression and incomplete combustion. Four stroke engines also have high exhaust gas temperatures and the use of synthetics greatly reduces carboning at the exhaust ports.

Third - Some fuel manufacturers claim that the number of moving parts in a 4-stroke is irrelevant to the oil content of the fuel, and they produce and recommend oil contents lower than that recommended by the engine manufacturers. Remember they do not provide the warranties for your engines they have no investment in your engine.

Hope this helps.
Jerry



firstclassplt -> Saito 180 Break In Fuel (1/19/2003 5:09:49 AM)

Thanks Jerry,
What do you think about the heli (30%) fuel that alot of my friend are using in the Saito 180? Is this totally wrong? The performance is great but I dont know what the long term effect it will have on the engine life. What wildcat fuel do you recommend for breakin an after?
thanks,
Richard



Wildcat Fuels -> Saito 180 Break In Fuel (1/19/2003 5:18:05 AM)

firstclassplt,

The 30% will not damage the engine but is overkill. Considering the performance difference from 15% or 20% you have to decide if the few hundred RPM is worth the added expense. Personally I would run either the 2 & 4 cycle 15% or the 20/20, both will perform very well without breaking the bank.



firstclassplt -> Saito 180 Break In Fuel (1/19/2003 5:24:56 AM)

Thanks Jerry,
I appreciate your responses. Does your company offer club plans like Red Max Fuels? If you do please email me@ [email]Firstclassplt@aol.com[/email]
THanks,
Richard



Dr Nitro -> Saito 180 Break In Fuel (1/19/2003 10:04:30 AM)

If memory serves me correctly, Saito recommends 20% oil fuels.
Yes, 18% oil will probably do it, but why not use a 20% oil fuel? after all oil is less expensive than Saito's 180. I've had 4, I know.

You definatly do not need 30% fuel, 15% or 20% is more than enough.

Since fuel is being plugged here, I highly recommend Cooper's. They ship like everybody and gave us outstanding service.
Try : [email]ccbfuels@iserv.net[/email]



firstclassplt -> Saito 180 Break In Fuel (1/19/2003 12:30:43 PM)

Dr. Nitro,
I just wanted to know what all the hype was in using the 30% heli. It is definitely expensive. Glad to know that I dont have to spend the extra to make it perform like I want.
THanks for the tip,
Richard



Dr Nitro -> Saito 180 Break In Fuel (1/20/2003 7:26:37 AM)

Richard,
I am not certain what the hype is about 30% heli fuel for the Saito's. Personally I have had 4 Saito 180's since the day they became available and have never had a idle, transition or any performance related issue from running them on 15% fuel. I have run them on low nitro fuel (zero) up to 30% nitro. IMO the bottom line is: Saito's run fantastic on lower nitro fuels (10,15,20%) without tunability issues that others claim. With zero and 5% nitro fuels, I found the idle needle to be a bit sensitive and had to be right on the money to get crisp clean transition. My opinion is also that 15% to 20% nitro is all that's needed to make them exceptionally powerful and reliable. I know several folks that run 10% fuel in all their Saito's and have had wonderfull experiences with them, I like 15%.
Everything I have ever ran in all my Saito's has been 20% total oil. Most of the time it's been about a 90/10 synthetic to castor blend and occasionally total synthetic. With 20% total oil by volume, and properly tuned, you can expect a long lasting reliable engine.

Oh, by the way, 30% fuel does consume more per minute and is a bit more expensive. That's a large price to pay for maybe another 100 rpms or so.



firstclassplt -> Saito 180 Break In Fuel (1/20/2003 10:21:14 AM)

I appreciate the advice.
Richard



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