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Purple Brushless Electric Ultimate BiPe - 10/27/2006 5:32:30 AM   
opjose



Posts: 5367
Joined: 11/26/2005
From: Poolesville, MD, USA
Status: offline 		I just received my "Purple Brushless Electric Ultimate BiPe" from Nitroplanes.
(The blue ones are still available, why didn't I order a blue one!).



It looks to be a very nicely built plane.

The motor mounts are done so that you can directly bolt your brushless out runner's X-mount directly to the firewall box.

The mount screw receptacles slide to accommodate motors of varying sizes.

There is an easily accessible battery hatch that needs either a latch or a magnetic hold down.

This looks like it will be a VERY quick build model as most (but not all) of the parts merely screw or bolt down.

The upper and lower wings are fully joined, but the aileron, rudder and elevators need to be CA'd.

Upper and lower wings mount via bolt on supports on both the center carbane and the wing struts.

The recommended 400T motor is sold out on the NP site. (ugh!)

I ordered a A20-30m from them which looks like a close replacement.



This motor mounts with the mounting holes in their innermost position on the mounting block. A larger motor could be accommodated.

Pluses:
Quick build
Nice motor mounts
Nice bolt on wing supports and carbane
Battery hatch
Light but well built, no wrinkles on mine.
Thick gear.

Minuses
Wheels far too spongy, will deform if left on floor.
Instructions a bit sparse, but manageable if you've put together other ARFs.
Supplied CA hinges are very small.
Gear support blocks could stand to be thicker, or re-enforced... I'll be doing the latter.

Errors:

The manual states that this plane accepts 4 mini servos. This is incorrect. The servo mounts will only accept micro servos.
Approx .93"x46" in Length and width.

I ended up with the wrong servos.



Hint: NP could make more sales if each plane had a listing of compatible parts that they carry, and are in STOCK.





< Message edited by opjose -- 10/27/2006 5:34:14 AM >

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RE: Purple Brushless Electric Ultimate BiPe - 10/27/2006 6:47:16 AM   
Rube Goldberg


 

Posts: 196
Joined: 6/5/2006
From: Whale Tail, RI, USA
Status: offline 		I've got the blue one. When it is a clear blue sky with scattered and broken white clouds I wish I had the purple one!

The plane does go together quickly. I'm using a Park 450 outrunner, Phoenix 35 ESC and TP 2100 battery. Still testing to find the "right" propeller. Flies really well, wound up removing the wheel pants and using larger dubro lightweight wheels to fly off grass.

I could only find one "disapointment" in the whole assembly process.....being the outer wing strut attachment points for the bottom wing. The holes for the angle brackets are started on the bottom of the top wing, but the striping of the covering job on the top of the bottom wing leaves you with no "guide" holes for the brackets! So I just fit it all together and measured top wing tip to corner of stabilizer on both sides to get those even, and measure from edge of fuselage out to strut same on both sides to get it right....main thing is making sure nothing is being stressed before you mark things and drill the holes.

You can stiffen up the landing gear mounting plate significantly by CA'ing a 1/4" square length of hard balsa along the inside edge of the fuselage atop the plate from the front of the battery door cross member back to the former that the bottom wing fits into.

Other than that little miscue, the little plane is DEFINITELY a BUY vs. other ARFs in it's class!

< Message edited by Rube Goldberg -- 10/27/2006 6:51:27 AM >

(in reply to opjose)
       Post #: 2

RE: Purple Brushless Electric Ultimate BiPe - 10/27/2006 3:14:46 PM   
opjose



Posts: 5367
Joined: 11/26/2005
From: Poolesville, MD, USA
Status: offline 		I haven't put mine together yet.

What size wheels did you go with and what type? Rubber, Ultralites?

What props have you tried?

Re: Balsa

Yeap exactly what I planned on doing.

Nice looking plane. Post a pic!



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RE: Purple Brushless Electric Ultimate BiPe - 10/27/2006 3:16:10 PM   
opjose



Posts: 5367
Joined: 11/26/2005
From: Poolesville, MD, USA
Status: offline 		I'd also love to know what those rubber "O" rings and shaft collars are for in the motor picture above.



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RE: Purple Brushless Electric Ultimate BiPe - 10/27/2006 6:44:18 PM   
Rube Goldberg


 

Posts: 196
Joined: 6/5/2006
From: Whale Tail, RI, USA
Status: offline 		Pictures of my blue Ultimate before removing the wheel pants are here:

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_4895258/tm.htm

As for the wheels I'm using now, they are the Dubro "ultra light weight" or the sorts in a 2" wheel. They look just like the old Dubro low bounce wheels but have a tread, they are made of foam on a plastic/nylon hub and weigh virtually nothing.

Props: I started out with the APC 9X6E that I had on the Park 450 powering my little electric Long EZ that was turning in reverse rotation on that plane. That one worked well and with the 2100 lipo the flight time was better than 20 minutes.

Next prop was a APC 9X6 slow flyer. Good power, but the speed control seemed to intermittently cut out....we were thinking maybe it was over-revving that prop.

Next was an E-Flite 10X8, the black plastic one that E-Flite suggests to use with the Mini Ultra Stick. Probably pulled the best of the 3, not quite enough to do 3D and the speed control told the battery to give it up after about 13 minutes.

Static testing shows that an APC 10X7E should be marginally 3D'able, the best power/flight time prop I'm thinking may be the APC 10X5E, but have yet to actually fly the plane with either of those to date.


Oh, BTW----if I were you and haven't yet assembled the tail, you might want to fabricate a piece of stiff wire to join the elevator halves before you hinge it to the stabilizer. Otherwise the side that has the horn is going to deflect further than the side that doesn't due to the torsional twist in the wood joiner. I poked a couple holes with a T pin where the wood joiner is and soaked it with thin CA in an attempt to stiffen the joiner as it is, don't think I gained much by doing that.


< Message edited by Rube Goldberg -- 10/27/2006 7:13:33 PM >

(in reply to opjose)
       Post #: 5

RE: Purple Brushless Electric Ultimate BiPe - 10/28/2006 10:01:42 PM   
opjose



Posts: 5367
Joined: 11/26/2005
From: Poolesville, MD, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rube Goldberg

Oh, BTW----if I were you and haven't yet assembled the tail, you might want to fabricate a piece of stiff wire to join the elevator halves before you hinge it to the stabilizer. Otherwise the side that has the horn is going to deflect further than the side that doesn't due to the torsional twist in the wood joiner. I poked a couple holes with a T pin where the wood joiner is and soaked it with thin CA in an attempt to stiffen the joiner as it is, don't think I gained much by doing that.



Thanks!

Yes is a problem with MANY planes.

I can't picture exactly on what you mean about the wire.

Where does it go? Between the two halves but futher to the back to provide more torsional stability?

Or Epoxied into the wood joiner itself.

Even on the larger models, elevators with a joiner wire and only one horn have the same problem.

I'm looking for an easy fix.

---

I'm wondering if I need to stiffen the tail as I usually do with CF support struts (laid out like rigging).

I do this on my planes which are .46 or larger. I haven't done it on my one .30 plane, though I guess I should.





< Message edited by opjose -- 10/28/2006 10:13:21 PM >

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RE: Purple Brushless Electric Ultimate BiPe - 10/29/2006 2:07:25 AM   
Rube Goldberg


 

Posts: 196
Joined: 6/5/2006
From: Whale Tail, RI, USA
Status: offline 		1) Find a piece of say 1/4" hardwood dowel, about 6" long. Next take a 1/16" drill bit and electric drill. Drill into end of dowel along the length of the dowel for about 1". Now remove the drill bit, insert the part that was in the drill into the dowel. CA it in the dowel. Now you have the most handy "hand drill" you could ever want to ream clevis', start holes for servo screws, you name it.

2) Stiffen the tail up on your Ultimate Bipe. Take a piece of hard music wire, say 1/16" and measure the span between the two elevators and then add a bit to each end (the measurement that is). Bend a 90 degree angle in one end, make it about 1/2" long, then the span distance between the elevators plus a bit and then another 90 degree bend the same direction as the first.

3) Use your newly made hand drill and drill holes into the leading edge of each elevator halve that will coincide with the length of the wire you just made. Drill the holes perpindicular to the leading edge of the elevator and parallel to the top/bottom surface of the elevator to a depth of the length of wire on your 90 degree bends.

4) Peel back the covering on the leading edge of the elevator where the wire will span across the two elevator halves, i.e. between the holes you drilled. Use the hand drill in a "scooping" motion across the leading edge of the elevator to make the recess for the wire. Once you've got that done CA glue the wire into place and you're done.

(in reply to opjose)
       Post #: 7

RE: Purple Brushless Electric Ultimate BiPe - 10/29/2006 4:42:41 AM   
opjose



Posts: 5367
Joined: 11/26/2005
From: Poolesville, MD, USA
Status: offline 		Got it...

I understand what you mean now. Basically a "U" joiner.

That's a good idea. Will do!



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RE: Purple Brushless Electric Ultimate BiPe - 10/31/2006 5:47:10 AM   
Rube Goldberg


 

Posts: 196
Joined: 6/5/2006
From: Whale Tail, RI, USA
Status: offline 		Just to update the thread with propeller choices---I'm pretty much settled on the APC 9X6SF (Slow Flyer) propeller. Flew the little Ultimate a few times this past weekend, and although you definitely aren't going to 3D this little plane with the Park 450 and 9X6SF, for all around general flying and aerobatics I think this one is going to be the best trade off in power vs. flight time.

Besides, you don't have to cut out the openings in the dandy little red spinner that you get with the ARF

(in reply to opjose)
       Post #: 9

RE: Purple Brushless Electric Ultimate BiPe - 10/31/2006 9:40:10 AM   
Raad


 

Posts: 67
Joined: 8/5/2006
From: cairogiza dokki, EGYPT
Status: offline 		al salam alaikum ,

Hi opjose, this is a very nice post you have here .. very explainable and nicely organized ... the Ultimate looks great i hope i will get to that level soon for i am a beginner still . Thank you for your information

Raad,
robm-2@msn.com

(in reply to opjose)
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RE: Purple Brushless Electric Ultimate BiPe - 10/31/2006 5:44:27 PM   
opjose



Posts: 5367
Joined: 11/26/2005
From: Poolesville, MD, USA
Status: offline 		Welcome.

I wouldn't recommend this plane for a beginner though.

It should be (I haven't flown or built mine yet) a quick and responsive flyer.

A bit too much for someone starting out.



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RE: Purple Brushless Electric Ultimate BiPe - 11/11/2006 6:17:02 AM   
Rube Goldberg


 

Posts: 196
Joined: 6/5/2006
From: Whale Tail, RI, USA
Status: offline 		Just a note from some further propeller testing with the Park 450/Phoenix 35/11.1V lipo battery in the little Ultimate bipe---should definitely be 3D'able with an APC 11X4.7E propeller, but this prop makes the plane fly really funky in general flight. I think it is just too much torque for the short wingspan. APC 9X7.5SF propeller is a bit better to get off the grass strip vs. the 9X6SF, the little Ultimate will cruise around nicely at about 65% power in a no wind situation and the battery run time is very near that of the 9X6SF at 15 minutes or so. Aerobatics are fine as well.
The suggested flight control throws are waaaaaaay too much. About 7 mm up/down for the ailerons and the elevator is plenty. Much more in the elevator will tend to cause a snap roll at the top of a loop on its own.....spins are very tight and make sure you have plenty of altitude to recover. Recovery is basically just let go of the sticks, but get on the power quick or else the dreaded "secondary stall" is just right around the corner!
I've probably put 25 or so flights on mine, it just gets better every flight--especially on a very calm day just tooling around.

< Message edited by Rube Goldberg -- 11/11/2006 6:21:58 AM >

(in reply to opjose)
       Post #: 12

RE: Purple Brushless Electric Ultimate BiPe - 11/13/2006 6:29:37 PM   
opjose



Posts: 5367
Joined: 11/26/2005
From: Poolesville, MD, USA
Status: offline 		As funny as it sounds, you may want to INCREASE the elevator throw to prevent the out of round loop.

There is a point with ANY Ultimate, where the throw setting for the elevator, during a loop, causes one of the wings to stall.

You see this as a snap or out of round loop tendancy as one wing has stalled because of a too high loop rate.

Now if you INCREASE the throws, BOTH wings will stall evenly... causing a tight stall loop.

I find the point where the stall look occurs and make sure that I have this set (or more) for my high rates.

Then I set my low rates to the point BELOW where this no longer occurs.

So now I get good loops in low rates, and stall loops using high rates.

This also fixes a few other things such as with blenders and snap rolls.

It seems to be endemic to the Ultimate design since all my Ultimates do the same thing no matter their size.
They even do this in the SIMs (such as G3) and you can verify what I am telling you in the sim.... actually that is how I found this on a larger Ultimate.

Check out other threads here where others have had the same problem (Darock for instance) and he tried the above and found it to work for his much larger glow Ultimate.

---

I LIKE my controls responsive, so I'm usually waaay over the recommended on the Ultimates.

30-50 percent Expo cures any control difficulties. I would recommend setting your high rates this way... and toning down your low rates to be below the specs.

---

I'm using the 9x6E prop btw.



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Build em'', fly em'', crash em'' and build more.

(in reply to Rube Goldberg)