"Forming" charge with a Triton  
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All Forums >> Radios, Batteries, Clubhouse and more >> Batteries & Chargers >> "Forming" charge with a Triton
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"Forming" charge with a Triton - 10/27/2006 11:13:26 AM   
bob_nj


 

Posts: 3497
Joined: 12/3/2001
From: Vineland, NJ, USA
Status: offline 		I want to form my packs with a Triton.
It says in the manual;
"Slow charge to break in batteries that are new or have been in storage for some time set the charge current to .1C and set the safety timer to 960 minutes."

In the NiMH menu on the Triton it wants a maximum charge "in" value as one of the parameters.
To ask a dumb question, do I just do the math?
If the battery is a 3000 Mah capacity, do I just multiply the 300 x 16 hours for a max "in" of 4800 MaH?
I don't want to overdo it on my nickel batteries is why I ask.


I'll do a search on what exactly constitutes forming.
From what I gather, it is a roughly 16 hour charge at .1C for new or older nicad and nickel metal batteries that have been laying around for awhile.
After charge, discharge @ .25C down to .9v per cell.

How many of these cycles are recommended?


Thanks_bob
       Post #: 1

RE: "Forming" charge with a Triton - 10/27/2006 5:37:56 PM   
marcellus


 

Posts: 186
Joined: 4/7/2005
From: Frampton-on-Severn, UNITED KINGDOM
Status: offline 		Yes, 14-16 hours at 1/10C. Capacity/charge rate times 1.4 ish for inefficiencies. To balance/form the cells you need to use a non peak charger. Not sure about the Triton, on some you can set it up to form charge. Most detect peak voltage and switch off when the cell gets there leaving one or two undercharged, maybe.

I form new packs twice, maybe 3 times to get full capacity and do the same a couple of times every 20 charges or so to keep them in good health. You can really see a recovery of capacity doing this.

(in reply to bob_nj)
       Post #: 2

RE: "Forming" charge with a Triton - 10/30/2006 9:19:10 AM   
bob_nj


 

Posts: 3497
Joined: 12/3/2001
From: Vineland, NJ, USA
Status: offline 		Thanks for the reply marcellus.
I fly giant scale and larger packs.
It's diffucult to get a standard type charger in the larger capacities.


Let me ask the question in another way.

Is there a way to charge with the Triton and not have it peak the battery pack?


Thanks_bob

(in reply to marcellus)
       Post #: 3

RE: "Forming" charge with a Triton - 10/30/2006 10:58:44 AM   
marcellus


 

Posts: 186
Joined: 4/7/2005
From: Frampton-on-Severn, UNITED KINGDOM
Status: offline 		Sorry, I don't have a Triton, so don't know. Most are peak detection though. Someone else may chip in who knows the Triton.

I bought a five output, mains powered charger called a Robbe Lader 5R. It includes 180 and 500 mA outputs, so my high capacity packs can be formed in a reasonable time. I bought it in Europe but it might be worth searching for in the USA. It was only $30 and automatically sets the right voltage for the number of cells in the pack. There must be similar in the USA.

It sounds as though the timer suggestion you mention from Triton is trying to do the same thing. An 'expert' from another forum wrote the comments below, so he is saying that peak detection chargers won't do the trick!

quote - Cells in a battery get out of balance , not all cells charge and discharge at exactly the same rate. When they are out of balance and you use a peak charger the cell or cells which charge the fastest will trigger the peak detection , stop the charge leaving the other cells not fully charged. When you discharge these cells the ones which were not fully charged become over discharged.

Only a C/10 charge for approx. 12-16 hours will get all the cells fully charged (balanced ) again. This needs to be done every 10-20 cycles depending on how much stress you place on the battery.

New batteries are not fully formed / conditioned for the most part and slow charging C/10 helps to different degrees depending on the quality of the battery(cells). - unquote

(in reply to bob_nj)
       Post #: 4

RE: "Forming" charge with a Triton - 10/30/2006 11:12:32 AM   
marcellus


 

Posts: 186
Joined: 4/7/2005
From: Frampton-on-Severn, UNITED KINGDOM
Status: offline 		Here you go! Look at the CH 806.

http://www.hangtimes.com/chargers.html

I think it's the same charger I use but re-badged....Got the price right too!

(in reply to marcellus)
       Post #: 5

RE: "Forming" charge with a Triton - 12/4/2006 1:20:47 AM   
ramduster



Posts: 344
Joined: 1/14/2004
From: PELZER, SC, USA
Status: offline 		I just got a Triton 2 charger and need to form charge some new packs did you find a way to do the form charge or does any one know how to form charge pack with a triton 2 charger.

(in reply to marcellus)
       Post #: 6

RE: "Forming" charge with a Triton - 12/4/2006 8:15:19 AM   
bob_nj


 

Posts: 3497
Joined: 12/3/2001
From: Vineland, NJ, USA
Status: offline 		I don't have a TII, but wound up buying another charger to do my forming.
There was a suggestion about upping the peak sensitivity to fool the charger into not peaking, but
I didn't like that idea.
It left too much to the imagination for me, although it may work.

Let me know what you wind up doing and how.

I've also taken on a couple of basic electronic projects to build my own chargers.
It's really not that hard if you have the time.
It should be fun too.

Have a good holiday_bob

(in reply to ramduster)
       Post #: 7

RE: "Forming" charge with a Triton - 12/4/2006 8:17:35 AM   
bob_nj


 

Posts: 3497
Joined: 12/3/2001
From: Vineland, NJ, USA
Status: offline 		Forgot to ask, what size are those packs anyhow?
I've got a couple of chargers on my personal site that may work for you.
Take a look on the classified page under the "Misc Stuff" link and click on chargers.

Take care_bob

Chargers Here

(in reply to bob_nj)
       Post #: 8

RE: "Forming" charge with a Triton - 12/4/2006 9:52:28 AM   
ramduster



Posts: 344
Joined: 1/14/2004
From: PELZER, SC, USA
Status: offline 		the packs are 1800 nimh 6.0v

(in reply to bob_nj)
       Post #: 9

RE: "Forming" charge with a Triton - 12/4/2006 3:20:53 PM   
bob_nj


 

Posts: 3497
Joined: 12/3/2001
From: Vineland, NJ, USA
Status: offline 		The only thing I have that'll do what you want, I don't want to get rid of.
I have and use two Ace Dual Metered Vari Chargers that will max out at 250mAh, and one
of these --> Ace

I just bit the bullet and figured that with all of the other money I spend on the hobby, and the amount of dollars
wrapped up in giant scale stuff, what's another $79?
This attitude may not be for everybody, but it worked for me.

Good luck in whatever you do, and have a good holiday_bob

(in reply to ramduster)
       Post #: 10

RE: "Forming" charge with a Triton - 12/4/2006 4:12:13 PM   
Andrew


 

Posts: 1949
Joined: 2/4/2003
From: Murray, KY,
Status: offline 		I built this -- I have a Triton I which will not form charge at a rate low enough for the pack sizes that I use (1/2A planes and micro electric helis). It was a quick build and works nicely. I set it up on an appliance timer and set the charge rate with a DMM -- my forming rates range from 35 to 70 ma. and the Triton's minimum rate is 100 ma -- I do use the Triton for the discharge cycle on the smaller NiMH packs.

_____________________________

the "other" andrew
I'm not older than dirt, but I can remember when it was patent pending

(in reply to bob_nj)
       Post #: 11

RE: "Forming" charge with a Triton - 12/4/2006 4:31:25 PM   
bob_nj


 

Posts: 3497
Joined: 12/3/2001
From: Vineland, NJ, USA
Status: offline 		Pretty nifty little charger Andrew.
Here's the one I'm going to tackle in the near future. ( See Attached )

I need a little more oomph than you do.
It should be fun, and I'm looking forward to it.

Looks like some of the printer power supply's will work for your design.


have a good holiday_bob

Attachments
Click to see fullsize image.
Click for fullsize

(in reply to Andrew)
       Post #: 12

RE: "Forming" charge with a Triton - 12/5/2006 12:19:15 AM   
ramduster



Posts: 344
Joined: 1/14/2004
From: PELZER, SC, USA
Status: offline 		Just found out that my old duraTrax charger will do the form charge on the slow charge setting at 100ma and I will use the triton to do the discharge.http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXUF43&P=0

(in reply to bob_nj)
       Post #: 13

RE: "Forming" charge with a Triton - 12/5/2006 11:21:50 PM   
ramduster



Posts: 344
Joined: 1/14/2004
From: PELZER, SC, USA
Status: offline 		Well my old DuraTrax is not doing the slow charge for my form charge of my pack and I just got the triton 2 charger. you would think if you pay 130.00$ for the triton it would do a form charge. looks am back to square one. so does anyone know how I can form charge with the triton.

(in reply to ramduster)
       Post #: 14