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All Forums >> Glow Engines, Gas Engines, Fuel & Mfg Support Forums >> Engine Conversions >> RE: Kioritz PB-400 Ignition Conversion ?
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RE: Kioritz PB-400 Ignition Conversion ? - 1/6/2011 4:20 AM   
rangerfredbob


 

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Status: offline 		yeah, that's an echo/kioritz, I suggest doing like av8tor did above and use studs out the back for a mount instead of a plate, it's lighter and works just as well.

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RE: Kioritz PB-400 Ignition Conversion ? - 1/6/2011 4:32 AM   
flyboy_87


 

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Status: offline 		 what did you use to hold the prop on? and how well does it do with the magnetic ignition? ive heard and read that if you want a weight reduction then get rid of it but if weights not an issue than just stick with it.

daniel

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RE: Kioritz PB-400 Ignition Conversion ? - 1/6/2011 5:17 AM   
w8ye



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Status: offline 		The engine belongs to aviator1977.

I couldn't find any other pictures of the one with the magneto.

Usually the electronic ignition requires a hub assembly. Often the hubs are similar between different engines.




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RE: Kioritz PB-400 Ignition Conversion ? - 1/6/2011 6:37 AM   
av8tor1977



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Status: offline 		Here ya go.

I really recommend electronic igntion though, for lighter weight, easier starting, and slightly more power.

AV8TOR

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RE: Kioritz PB-400 Ignition Conversion ? - 1/6/2011 6:38 AM   
av8tor1977



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Status: offline 		OH man. Sorry about that post. I forgot about any picture after the first one coming out huge. When are they going to fix that??

AV8TOR

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RE: Kioritz PB-400 Ignition Conversion ? - 1/6/2011 7:57 AM   
flyboy_87


 

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Status: offline 		Thanks AV8TOR,

I am definately new to the whole conversion thing so thank you for helping me out. What did you do to the shaft output so that the prop could be attached? and do you know of any places that carry cheap EI systems? i have looked on CH Ignitions but they are closed right now due to health problems with an owner. what did you do the muffler? i notice that you pulled off the piece that puts the exhaust back away from the motor. My motor also has what im going to call a return spring on the carburetor that keeps it closed. did you pull that off of your carb too? did you have to cut something off the back of the motor where the pull start usually goes? im sorry for all of the questions and im sure there will be more to come. thanks for the help and to answer your question ive never posted any pics on here but it sure is aggravating to have to scroll left and right to see a picture. 

Daniel

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RE: Kioritz PB-400 Ignition Conversion ? - 1/6/2011 3:36 PM   
w8ye



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http://www.agaperacingandhobby.com/shop/viewcategory.php?groupid=5


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RE: Kioritz PB-400 Ignition Conversion ? - 1/6/2011 6:03 PM   
av8tor1977



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Status: offline 		Ok, here we go...

On the back of the engine where the pull start used to be, the crankshaft sticks out just a bit. You can either cut the crank off so that it doesn't protrude past the mounting flange area, or you can drill a hole in the firewall so that that part of the shaft can pass through. Then you can use studs to mount the engine directly to the firewall as I do.

When I use a magneto on the little 21cc engines, I often use the original stud nut that used to hold the impeller of the leaf blower to mount the prop. It has a nut with threads that goes on to hold the magneto on, and has a stud sticking out that you can use to mount a propellor. (See picture.) I have used this on lots of engines with no problems.

If you are going to go with electronic igntion, you will need a special prop hub. Try www.wackerengines.com about getting one made. You could also post a "help, need prop hub made" thread here on the forum and perhaps someone will be able to make you one. Sorry, but I just don't have the time myself; I am buried with work and projects right now.

www.valleyviewrc.com and www.southeastrcengines.com are both sources of the RCEXL ignition system. Expect to pay around 60 to 70 dollars for everything you will need. I really do recommend electronic ignition, though many fly just fine with magnetos. There is nothing wrong with them, I just like the CD ignitions on my planes.

The mufflers I use most often on the 21 to 25cc Echo engines are once again from leaf blower engines. They are small, compact and lightweight, and easy to convert. I just take off the 3 screw cover, and remove it and anything behind it and run the muffler like that. You could also make a plate to cover that hole, with two 5/8" outlet tubes or one 7/8" tube. If you made up the plate with the holes in it, and cut some tubes and had it all ready to braze together, a welding shop would probably do it for you for a six pack... Then you just bolt it back on the muffler with the three screws, and you are ready to go.

Hey guys, if I am leaving anyone out whom is presently making prop hubs and mufflers, please let me know. wackerengines is the only one I can think of at the moment and I am not sure even he is making mufflers right now....

Good luck, the little Echos are sweet little engines,
AV8TOR

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RE: Kioritz PB-400 Ignition Conversion ? - 1/6/2011 6:42 PM   
flyboy_87


 

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Status: offline 		thank you guys for all the help. and i know how it is to be busy with work. so thank you av8tor and w8ye for the help 

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RE: Kioritz PB-400 Ignition Conversion ? - 1/7/2011 1:26 AM   
Scota4570


 

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Status: offline 		Here is a nice write up on that engine.

http://tech.flygsw.org/echo_conversion.htm

Their main site has a lot of good reading.

http://tech.flygsw.org/

These guys say they have a prop hub:

http://indianatinygasengines.com/page008.aspx

I have not done business with them so I can't give a review.

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RE: Kioritz PB-400 Ignition Conversion ? - 1/7/2011 1:27 AM   
littlera


 

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Status: offline 		Interesting thread.

Not sure about conversion, but I DO know that the basic engine is bullet proof. I bought a new Echo PB-400 in 1984, and after 27 years and AT LEAST 2000 hours operating, it still runs well today. It has been "demoted" to one of my vacation homes for intermittent duty as I bought a new 4 cycle Stihl commercial grade blower a couple of years ago. The PB-400 doesn't start quite as easily as it once did (takes about 6 pulls instead of the 2-3 of yore.) The real problem is that all the plastic parts - fuel tank, housings, filter housing, and blower tube flex elbow - have deteriorated to the point that the unit is falling apart.

I never had to put any parts into the engine - ignition included - in all that time. Replaced the spark plug once or twice, and the muffler guts fell apart, forcing replacement. This thread gives me thought that I may forge a new, second and more noble life for the engine out of my blower for airborne power.

I believe I de-carboned the exhaust port once a few years back. Perhaps if I clean it again, convert to electronic ignition, and maybe put in a new ring it will start well enough to use on a plane.

Question - is there a good way to judge whether or not the ring is worn to the point of needing replacement? Is there a thickness (radial) dimension to check it against? I believe the bore is good to go - I can still see the original hone marks.

littlera

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RE: Kioritz PB-400 Ignition Conversion ? - 1/7/2011 2:02 AM   
littlera


 

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Status: offline 		I think the engine in the PB-400 is about 26 cc, is this correct? Anyone know the specs for this engine?
littlera

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RE: Kioritz PB-400 Ignition Conversion ? - 1/7/2011 2:09 AM   
w8ye



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Status: offline 		PB400 = 40cc


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RE: Kioritz PB-400 Ignition Conversion ? - 1/7/2011 2:58 AM   
littlera


 

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Status: offline 		Bigger than I thunk it was. But, this supports the weight more than if it was a 26. Thanks, W8YE.

littlera

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RE: Kioritz PB-400 Ignition Conversion ? - 1/7/2011 3:30 AM   
Scota4570


 

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Status: offline 		It may use the same hub as the Echo Shot block SB-1080, that is the same engine as the BME 50 classic. The attached pictures will give you some idea of what is involved and what you will end up with. All of my Echo conversions have been winners. You blower will require much less case trimming than the chainsaws with the intregal cases.

These guys have Echo SB-1080/ BME 50 hubs:

http://brillellicustoms.com/brillelli_customs_002.htm

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< Message edited by Scota4570 -- 1/8/2011 1:50 AM >

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RE: Kioritz PB-400 Ignition Conversion ? - 1/7/2011 7:47 AM   
av8tor1977



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Status: offline 		The ring gap spec is about .003". Every used engine I ever took apart had a larger than optimum ring gap. Get a Frank Bowman ring and you will be quite happy with the restored compression if the cylinder is indeed in good shape.

AV8TOR

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RE: Kioritz PB-400 Ignition Conversion ? - 1/7/2011 3:25 PM   
mikenlapaz



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Status: offline 		Thought that engine looked familar!

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_2763014/anchors_2766956/mpage_1/key_/anchor/tm.htm#2766956

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