djlyon

Did any of you guys ever build, fly, race or whatever one of these things? Does it really need 5" total dihedral as called for in the plans and further admonishes you not to reduce???

Denis

garys

I have no idea, that kit is probably close to my age 5" sounds like a ton, I can't imagine it wouldn't be ok with less. Maybe one of the "older" guys can answer than for you...Gall...Dible...are you guys there? Can you still remember back that far???

Jim Duda

I think Bobby Smith (CA) and his brother flew these in the old FORMULA 2 class back in the day - perhaps the 1970 NATS...never built one so I can't comment on the dihedral.

DHG

My Feedback: (7)

I refuse ta answer dat question on da grounds dat it may tend ta incinerate me.

But seriously -- I have heard of Formula 2 and Jack Stafford, but not that particular plane. Still, 5 inches of dihedral sounds way more than scale, and way more than you'd need unless you're using the rudder to steer and the wing doesn't have ailerons. I'd say build it so it looks right, use ailerons, have a ball!

Clark L

OK Denis what are you up to? [sm=tired.gif]

djlyon

Hey every week somebody comes up with a new pylon event. So I figured every one would love nostalgia FAI or Formula 2. I even got a couple of old K&B Pylon engines. I bought this thing about 30 years ago and now I think I'll build it. If I build scale it should be a racer.

Denis

Clark L

cool... will you need me to call for you when you start your new class?

djlyon

only if scale Dail is not available

Clark L

Fine, I'll start my own class. [sm=angry.gif]

HighPlains

My Feedback: (1)

I don't think that you are all that young Gary! You're surely in your fourth decade by now.

That airplane had to be designed in the late 60's or so. Maybe 5 years into the proportional revolution. But the radios of the day were not so swift, with maybe a bit more than 1 second for the servo travel end to end. And when it got to about where the control stick was telling it to go, it would overshoot the travel a bit and rock back and forth until it homed in on position.

All of this is to say that some designers designed for a bit more stability than we need today. I would drop it down to what looks good to the eye and let it go at that. Or if you want a specific number, go with an inch. The last Denight Special I built was with the top of the wing flat, with the dihedral due to the wing thickness taper. Paul's instructions for the Denight was for 2".

smacfe

Damn I'm getting old..... I remember this airplane. The vintage was about 1971 and the FAI and Form 2 classes were turning times in the mid 1:40's when this airplane came out. In addition, there were more strict scale requirements at the time and one of the important creteria was the dihedral. If you look at a full scale P-51, there is a lot of dihedral. The dihedral in this airplane helped it meet the scale requirements and also helped it turn at what we would consider ridiculously slow speeds. Eventually the scale rules were liberalized to allow "prototype" airplanes. Bob Smith flew his Miss RJ which was the coolest thing going until Cliff Telford/Bob Violet came out with their Bobcat which is hanging in the AMA museum.

The Form 2 class never really took off anywhere except in the very active northern New York circuit where Hal DeBolt was very competitive in the class.

As I recall, there were actually two versions of the Stafford P-51; the earlier one I believe had an undercambered wing like the Stafford Form 1 Minnow and Midget Mustang and the later ones with a more symetrical wing. The later one was not really a racer and more of a stand-off scale sport plane.

Scott

garys

Bob, yes, I'm into my fourth decade...(34). Like I said, the Stafford P-51 was close to my age...

HighPlains

My Feedback: (1)

It's interesting if you plot the number of NMPRA members vs. the then current fast time. At one time there were over 600 members and some contests in California had over 100 entries in Formula One. As the times dropped, so did the membership. It took a real nosedive when times dropped below 1:20. Also the K&B engine debacle in the early 70's forced a lot of people out.

On deBolt, his F2 was as fast as most F1's at one Nats.

34 Gary? I've got models I built that are older.[]

s. wallace

My Feedback: (24)

I'm "only" 46 but can still remember the racing in upstate NY in the early 70's. deBolt, Ed Keck, Ernie Nikodem & my dad... They had a lot of fun & raced F-1, F-2 and Open pylon- my dad flew F-1 and flew a delta in open.

Bob Noll resurected his original 1968 Continental 600 F-2 model and has flown it at the past few VRCS reunions.

One of these days I intend to build a deBolt Denight Special to chase Bob' model around at the vintage events.

HighPlains

My Feedback: (1)

I'd like to see a deBolt Denight fly Scott. I've Kinko'ed his deBolt Special for the future, but think that if I build it I will change to foam cores since it was sheeted anyway.

Thanks to you, I'm building a Sunfli III.

djlyon

well that's it . I'll set the dihedral to looks good as viewed over the top of my thumb or a beer can. Probably wind up between 1 and 2 inches total.

Charlee Smith

Jim & smacfe,

Thanks for bringing back such great memories. I built the Miss B.S. that Bob flew at the 1970 Nats. It was actually based on the plans I had for Al Rabe's P-51 C/L stunt. We just added 66 & 63 series NACA laminar airfoils and gave the fuselage the turtle deck of the Miss R.J. This prototype was a "special" aircraft. It seemed to get faster with each lap. It had a standard Lee Custom K&B. I can still remember the change in pitch of the sound as it seemed to unload at liftoff on its way to the first turn. It qualified at 1:32, which was faster than any Formula One until Larry Leonard turned a 1:31 on the last qualifying heat. A receiver battery failure in the finals doomed it, but as soon as we got back from Chicago we had Bob Palmer (an outstanding human being) teach us how to do fiberglass fuselages and the Miss B.S. became the first aircraft of P. B. Products (which became Bob Smith R/C Aircraft and then Bob Smith Industries). It was also nice seeing Harold Debolt's Denight Special. It was fun lapping it every time the Miss B.S. raced the Denight (I couldn't help myself from saying that!). I don't remember exactly what the dihederal was on the Miss B.S., but 2" sounds about right. I'll check my original set of plans when I get home tonight.

By the way, we took photos this morning for a new ad (it's about time!). You'll see Bob holding one of his old Formula I's when it comes out in the magazines in Febuary.

Chuck Smith
Templeton, CA

Jim Duda

Chuck - I remember you pitting with the rest of the "California Crew" at the '70 Glenview Dance...also remember you guys kept your fuel iced down in a cooler - I told my partner, Hank Pohlmann, "Man, those guys sure know what they're doin'...!" I flew against Bobby and Larry Leonard in some heats but got spanked pretty good. I believe Terry Prather and his dad had a couple "Minnow type" planes...might have been his new Li'l Toni.

I was just starting out in F1 in 1970 - you California guys were the "Gods" of pylon racing.

Glad to know the Smith brothers are still alive and kickin'!

skrez

My Feedback: (15)

Hi Guys,
I ended up putting about 2 1/2 total on mine. I must have a older version of the JS Mustang, my instructions called for 6" total. I have a MVVS 40 Q 500 engine on order for this bird.

Regards,

Frank

Seventies Flyer

My Feedback: (4)

While looking for some kits in my storage area I found an old PB Products Miss BS Formula 2 kit. Thanks for the info on the history of it. The good days of pylon racing with Terry Prather,Tom Christopher,Harley Condra,Steve Sica and Keith Davidson (D&S Ricky Rat) We had races at our field on monument road in San Diego,I can remember going to Wittier Narrows,Sepulvada Basin and of course Bakersfield

Vendata

Any ome got a photo of this beast?

Seventies Flyer

My Feedback: (4)

I sold my Jack Stafford kit,but here is a picture of the Miss BS by PB Products. The plans were drawn in 1971

djlyon

Geez I forgot all about this old thread I started. I actually started building it about 4 months ago. In between building quickies and repairing quickies so it's going slow. I had the same question again about the 5 inches and why the admonishment. Anyway I wasn't going to make it 5 inches. 2 or 2.5 was going to be it. Then this thread poped again. In the fog of my memory I can see Scott's explanation but I can also remember the servos of which Hightower speaks and that makes sense.

This one has the simi symmetrical airfoil AND the Goldberg retracts and I installed the goldbergs. I must be nuts. If I stay true to the era I guess I should use a series 71 or 74 K&B but I'll probably use something with a bit more go.

Denis

PylonDave

I bet a SS q500 engine would pull it around allright!!

djlyon

It'll probably get what I have, a Rossi 53 or a Webra 50. Depends on witch one balances it.

Denis