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Wittmann and Normandy - 11/2/2006 10:12:02 PM   
TIGER76



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Not sure if this has been posted before but heres a nice video ive seen maybe stern will like alot
And all us Tiger lovers
wittman video

The guy was a LEGEND

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RE: Wittmann and Normandy - 11/3/2006 6:48:20 AM   
Stern



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Thanks for the link !!!



More information about Michael Wittmann

more


Greetings


< Message edited by Stern -- 11/3/2006 7:24:34 AM >


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RE: Wittmann and Normandy - 11/3/2006 1:57:23 PM   
titan20


 

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That was really cool. . .I hadn't seen that before. It's hard not to recognize the bravery and superb combat tactics of some of the Germans. Although Whittman seems to be the most recognized, I'm reading a very good autobiographical account of Otto Carrius -- who I think was next in line behind Whittman with kills in his Tiger (and earlier Panzers). I think what makes his story interesting, is his dimunitive stature and humble begins. Whittman looks the part of the German "supersoldier", while Carrius looked like he was close to be 4f. It's amazing to read how many T-34s he destroyed -- especially at one time. According to him, it's not like the T-34's were bad equipment; the Russians just used bad tactics. There are many stories of impossible odds in the German army. Of course, you have to take in to account their situation with manpower. Take fighter aces for example. When an American became a fighter ace, usually he was taken out of combat, flown back to the states, and used to drive the war effort. The Germans, being short on manpower anyway, had no such luxuries. That's why you see German fighter aces, and tank aces for that matter, with HUGE numbers of kills. They simply weren't able to go home. I was reading another story the other day (forgot the tank commander's name) about a lone Panther defending the road at Normady for something like 2 or 3 days, stopping everything in its path until it was finally taken out. From what I read, Whittman's death is shrouded in mystery. There are several different versions of his demise. One, has him being taken out by aerial bombardment. The other, which I think a lot of people agree on, is that he was purposely targeted in a big ambush plan by something like 13 or 14 Sherman Fireflies -- and they literally pounded him to death.

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RE: Wittmann and Normandy - 11/3/2006 4:23:37 PM   
Stern



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Oh, Otto Carius ! I do not know much about him - but I think he opened after the war a apothecary called " Tiger apothecary"

If you do have interesting tank-stories about him please post them !!!

And shure - the situation of manpower was towards the end of the war not the best

Towards Wittmann - he got serveral times the offer to become a high decorated teacher at a military tactical shool - but he refused that !
The pilot Hans-Ulrich Rudel had over 2000 (!) missions when he lost in february 1945 his right lower leg - after 6 weeks he was flying again - nearly after every mission his mechanics had to clean his blood from the cockpit of his airplane ...

I think it is not easy to understand the situation in that time - especially the situation of man like Wittmann, Carius or Bromann (fought with 17 years on the eastern front in 1945 (!) with a Tiger II and had 66 kills).

For interested here are more Tiger Aces - sadly there are only listed the tank kills and not the PAK`s ... I know that Wittmann destroyed also 132 PAK`s and he said, that a T34 is not such a problem as a hidden PAK ...


Greetings

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RE: Wittmann and Normandy - 11/3/2006 5:28:50 PM   
trotski



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Hi guys, It would be interesting to know about any Russian tank aces, as there must have been some, the difference being that the Russians didnt seem to put as much emphasis on the volume of kills by individuals as the Germans or the allies did. the Japanese were the same. It wasn't until after the war that Japanese fighter pilot kill tallies came to light, and it seems to be true that the Germans had more oppurtunities for large kill tallies because they were in combat all the way through the war starting with Spain up until the battle of Berlin, wereas the Allies were fighting on fewer fronts, and there were times when they took no part in any actions ( with the exception of certain units ) food for thought ???

Cheers A

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RE: Wittmann and Normandy - 11/3/2006 5:55:58 PM   
titan20


 

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While reading the autobiography of Carrius, he paints the picture as the Russians having plenty of will to fight, bravery, and above average equipment -- it was just that their tactics sucked. The Russians tried to use their superiority numbers to win -- throw as many soldiers, tanks, or whatever at the enemy until they are overpowered. Carrius also noted that the Russian tankers would stay buttoned up crossing fields and 100% of the time in battle, where the German tank commanders would stay top side for better visibility, and thus better combat actions. The downfall, of course, was the number of commanders lost to enemy snipers. Russians were used as total cannon fodder, and the Germans seemed to value their personnel more.

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RE: Wittmann and Normandy - 11/3/2006 7:15:37 PM   
Stern



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Hallo,

I only know Lieutenant Dmitriy Lavrinenko, who scored 52 victories in 28 engagements before he was killed defending Moscow in 1941 while serving in the division under command of General Panfilov.

Towards our troops: They were well accomplished - like Bromann who learned nearly a year ... - and had deep trust to their weapons !

Titan, tell more from Carrius - very interesting !


Greetings

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RE: Wittmann and Normandy - 11/3/2006 7:18:50 PM   
hobbimaster


 

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Love the WW2 footage, especially from the german perspective. Anyone know if the history channel, or some other source has good documenteries of german armor, or these Tiger aces?

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RE: Wittmann and Normandy - 11/3/2006 8:47:20 PM   
TIGER76



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Some great info there guys im gonna start looking into these heroes now i noticed on play.com they have a dvd based on wittmann so im gonna order it and take a look
wittmann dvd link

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RE: Wittmann and Normandy - 11/4/2006 11:02:09 PM   
FMB42


 

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Hobbi, PBS has a couple of DVDs that cover the Tiger and STUG III/IV AFVs. Search "shopPBS.com" for more info.

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RE: Wittmann and Normandy - 11/5/2006 12:27:25 PM   
Stern



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for the links !!!

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RE: Wittmann and Normandy - 11/5/2006 1:45:24 PM   
TIGER76



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No problems stern after all it was you who had brought him to my attention
His story is just amazing,like you said..
quote:

Towards Wittmann - he got serveral times the offer to become a high decorated teacher at a military tactical shool - but he refused that !

They said on the dvd he had this chance to send time at home with his young wife but went straight back out to fight sadly to his last battle!!
And how he had to leave his Tiger ditched and his crew had to walk over 15kms through hostile areas to the next safe area only to go back to pick up his tank to fight another day
Yes there was a lot of sad stories that came from the great wars but admirations to the heroes it created too now i can understand why you modeled your Tiger on the legend that was Wittmann

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RE: Wittmann and Normandy - 11/5/2006 10:16:47 PM   
hobbimaster


 

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FMB42, Thanks! I just orderd the Tiger DVD from PBS. I also found the Tiger Ace: Wittman DVD on ebay. It is region 0, but in PAL format. Between the computers and DVD players in my house, I'm hoping one will play the PAL.

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RE: Wittmann and Normandy - 11/6/2006 10:12:38 PM   
namdoc69


 

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Just want to add my 2 cents to discussion about Otto Carius. Never heard of him till I found a book he wrote in Barnes & Noble a few weeks ago called "Tigers in the Mud" published by Stackpole Military history Series. Covers his life history and what happened to him after the war.
He survied a lot of s**t in Russia. Had the cupola on his Tiger shot off!
He was inside the turret at the time and didn't get hurt. Also survied being shot several times by a Russian soldier. He sure doesn't look the part of a German tank commander, short little guy with an almost baby face. In fact he stated that when he joined the German Army, other soldiers wanted to know what a little fart like him was doing ina grown man's army. Thruout his book he talks about Russian tank tactics which were always pretty bad, even though the T-34's and KV's almost always outnumbered the available German tanks in attacks.
He said the biggest asset for the Germans was tank to tank radio communications, so they could coordinate their attacks, while Russian tanks didn't have radios till much later in the war.
Also of interest, in the back of his book he includes copies of numerous documents, some of which are techincal after-action reports about the mechanical problems they were having with the then-new tiger 1, and fixes he suggested.


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RE: Wittmann and Normandy - 11/11/2006 5:49:07 PM   
Stern



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Picture of Wittmann and his crew at the 30.January 1944 - the day when he was