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RE: Aurora 60 Build Thread - Electric Power - 1/24/2007 3:04:10 AM   
rainedave



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Dan Hines' email is carolinaaircraft@earthlink.net I think his web site is in the works.

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RE: Aurora 60 Build Thread - Electric Power - 1/25/2007 5:12:03 AM   
Atlanta 60



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Thank you rainedave...I've messaged him and looking forward to his reply!!

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RE: Aurora 60 Build Thread - Electric Power - 1/28/2007 1:01:49 AM   
Bootalini


 

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I've mounted the wings to the fuselage using Gator RC's adjustable system.

After mounting the leading and trailing edges to each wing panel and then trimming/sanding, I readied the lite ply inner ribs to mate with the Gator adjusters that were now mounted to the fuselage from the inside. As you can see in the one photo, I've left plenty of room for the Gator mechanism to move either way for incidence adjustments. The process I use is self-explanatory if you follow the pictures. After I achieve a nice fit of the ply ribs to the fuse (they readily slide on and off the locating dowels), I then glue the wing panels to those ply ribs using zap. Both wing panels now slide on/off the tube/fuselage rather nicely and I managed a good fit WRT wing panel/fuselage gap.

Next step is to cut out the ailerons, hinge them to the wing panels, and then tack-glue them back into place before I proceed with final sanding. The tips will also be installed at that time.

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Jeff L

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RE: Aurora 60 Build Thread - Electric Power - 1/28/2007 1:10:05 AM   
Atlanta 60



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Well..If that's not Kewl Lookin'..I'm not sure what is!!

Have Fun...

Chuck

< Message edited by navav2002 -- 1/28/2007 1:11:01 AM >


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RE: Aurora 60 Build Thread - Electric Power - 1/28/2007 7:02:50 AM   
vintageflyer


 

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Damn Jeff!!

That is Awsome!
What kind of speeds do you think you'll be hitting?
The other week we clocked a little EDF Rafale at 177mph! And if 2s guys say they would miss that sould of a screaming engine, they never heard this little motor scream! I think I would go electric before 4s.. That EDF was just screaming


DM

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RE: Aurora 60 Build Thread - Electric Power - 1/28/2007 2:50:51 PM   
Bootalini


 

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Guys, glad you're enjoying the build.

Top speed...that's a good question. Due to the thinner wing and modified airfoil, I'd estimate the overall coeficient of drag of the airframe (primarily induced + profile) to be a tad less although the stab is noticeably thicker to accomodate the Gator adjustable stab mechanism.
I think the determining factor will be the electric powerplant and the larger diameter 13 X 13 APC prop. I don't have PCalc #s handy but I expect the plane to be a bit slower in level flight but with killer vertical performance. And given the prop "braking" potential on downlines of these electric setups, it could amount to more of a constant speed type of presentation ?? Chronos from Montreal really likes the way his flies and he's using the same setup. Should be interesting!



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Jeff L

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RE: Aurora 60 Build Thread - Electric Power - 1/28/2007 6:46:45 PM   
8178



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Jeff,

What do you expect the prop RPM to be at full battery charge.

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RE: Aurora 60 Build Thread - Electric Power - 1/28/2007 8:10:37 PM   
Bootalini


 

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8178, I just PM'd Chronos about this. He only mentioned the wattage achieved using the 13 X 13 which was pretty darn impressive. Hopefully he can tell exact #s as opposed to my extracting approximates using the calculator.
quote:

ORIGINAL: 8178

Jeff,

What do you expect the prop RPM to be at full battery charge.



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Jeff L

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RE: Aurora 60 Build Thread - Electric Power - 1/28/2007 9:52:58 PM   
chronos333


 

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Hi guys,
FYI
With the 14X12 (1500W-in setup) we had around 7.8-7.9k rpm and clocked the plane at 180kph straight & level.
The 14X14 was too much for the esc (1900W-in setup), but we could see the plane accelerating vertically... impressive... well beyond 180 kph and the esc limits (the ESC caught fire later on)!

The actual setup (not flown yet) is around 1700-1800w-in and should also be well above 180kph

Chronos

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RE: Aurora 60 Build Thread - Electric Power - 1/28/2007 9:57:06 PM   
chronos333


 

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By the way,

Did I mentioned I liked the 14X14?

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RE: Aurora 60 Build Thread - Electric Power - 1/28/2007 10:22:13 PM   
8178



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I know nothing about electrics other than what I occasionally see at the flying field and they are mostly hanging on little foam stuff. I would have thought the larger motors would turn more RPM so you could turn a smaller prop with more pitch. The small motors I’ve seen sound like they are turning 15K or more. I did see one catch on fire in the air though and that was pretty cool/hot? I guess the HP is not related to the engine RPM. What would the top RPM be for a typical large motor? I like the smell of burning caster and nitro so I expect electric is not for me.

< Message edited by 8178 -- 1/28/2007 10:25:23 PM >

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RE: Aurora 60 Build Thread - Electric Power - 1/29/2007 1:39:40 AM   
Bootalini


 

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Today I decided to tackle the stab.

The first photo shows my false rib layout scheme using a felt marker. I've also cut the false ribs from lite ply which will be trimmed after I cut the slots in the foam and test fit them.

2nd photo shows the 3mm slot cut into the foam and the airfoil outline on the false ribs that denotes what I have to trim prior to gluing all in place. The Gator phenolic sockets have been cut and the ends capped with approx 7mm hanging out of the foam. Keep in mind that 3mm of the 7 will be absorbed by the lite ply false rib that will 'cap' the entire inside of each stab half....that's later in the process.

3rd photo shows all the 'internals' glued into place, the sheeting cut and prep sanded, as well as the cores sanded and vaccumed. Once again, make sure you've removed all residue from the wood and foam surfaces that will be glue together. As I write this, both stab halves have been sheeted and the 3 hour epoxy is drying.


8178, ref electric motors, with a few exeptions you'll notice that those electrics flying around have a disproportionately large propeller for the airframe when compared to their glow engine counterparts. Although I'm hardly qualified to speak about electrics, it seems these motors have natural torque curves based on winding pattern and winding #s and when I first started researching which motors I could use, I quickly found out that very few electric motors are able to efficiently make the required big power using smallish props.... the 11 and 12" ones we're used to using on these airplanes.....and somewhat restricted to due to ground clearance issues.....holy run-on sentence Batman! Anyway, I'll let someone else rescue me from this one but I hope to see more motor options available for these types of conversion projects in the future.

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Jeff L

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RE: Aurora 60 Build Thread - Electric Power - 1/29/2007 1:16:04 PM   
chronos333


 

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From experience,

Electric motors are able to efficiently turn at high rpms even more naturally than big props at low rpms. Remember: The lower the winding, the higher the kv (rpm per volt), the higher the amp rating.
There are scientific reasons to that but lets keep everything down to earth.
FYI, I am preparing a crazy flying wing, the motor (electric) will spin a 5.25X6.25 @ 42-43K rpm... talk about rpm!!!

Inrunners have a natural tendency to spin at high rpms (even higher than glow's) which is good for EDF/cars/boats/helis but not for airplanes or sailplanes. Thus people:
1. matched high kv inrunners to gearboxes
or
2. created low kv inrunners like Neu's ORK/Mega/ Plettenberg all of these are good stuff by the way, but they don't like spinning at rpms below 10-20K

Then people came with the idea of a rotating case, and here came the outrunners. They have more torque, but can also spin at high rpm depending on the winding. To reliably spin at high rpms, an outrunner should have a well balanced cage and at least 2 ball bearings to support the cage. They are less efficient than inrunners but doesn't need a gearbox (which eats part or all of the inrunner's advantage in efficiency)

So why people are putting oversized/low pitch props on their electric model? I have an opinion based on facts, thus we can't infer it is a fact as it is a mere interpretation of observations.
Before lipos battery packs were heavy to fly a .45 plane, you needed a 18sub-C cells pack weighting 42oz. To be able to fly it securely, you needed a lot of thrust thus an underpitched prop.

Nowadays big props are mostly for 3D flyers, parkflyers or everything needing thrust like sailplanes (I will use a 18.5X12 on a new project).

my 2c

(in reply to Bootalini)