RE: 35% Panzl Pak Build  
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RE: 35% Panzl Pak Build - 11/30/2006 7:59:37 AM   
extratorker


 

Posts: 273
Joined: 12/5/2004
From: new york, NY, USA
Status: offline 		Also, try fitting the wings up to the fuse without the wingtubes installed to see how they match up. Just for one last check, install your wingtube into the fuse with equal lengths hanging out both sides and measure to the tip of the vertical stab.

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       Post #: 51

RE: 35% Panzl Pak Build - 11/30/2006 4:24:11 PM   
crhammond


 

Posts: 371
Joined: 8/31/2005
From: EdmontonAB, CANADA
Status: online 		Hi Jim,

I did all that and I talked to Al. He told me the wings are not cut with any taper int hem. The fuse is straight as an arrow. I measured from the wing tubes back to the middle of the rudder and they are perfect.

I measured the wings. They are definately not cut the same. The left wing is 46" from root to tip at the leading edge. The right wing is 45 3/4" from root to the tip at the leading edge. They are the same at the trailing edge. When I look at the roots I can tell they were not cut correctly. The right one wobbles and the left one is straight - thats why there is a difference I think.

When I talked to Al he said I could either cut the roots or build up to match the fuse taper...

I think that these were just cut wrong somehow at the factory. I hope so anyway...

The reason for cutting and adding on the right side is that I need 5/16 more TAPER for the LE to the root to make it match the fuse side - but the wing length at the leading edge is only 45 3/4 so I need to move the whole wing out 1/4" to be the same as the right side. My plan would be to cut from the fairing at the trailing edge to the root at the leading edge - that will get the taper the same as the fuse.

The phonolics are glued in as per Al's directions... but the wings are not capped yet and nothing has been cut.

As far as pictures I have some more at home - but basically when the wings are on and the fairing at the trailing edge is touching the fuse there is a 5/8" gap at the left leading edge and a 5/16" gap on the right.

Since you didn't have this problem I am now nervous again... but I have checked and re-checked the alignment and everything is square as can be. The wings are definately not cut the same and the right is definately not straight... so I am assuming Al's directions are right.

I checked alignment by 1st making sure the table was still level and square. Then I put in the wing tube and evened it on both sides. I put a pin the middle of the vert stab trailing edge and used a string to check the distance to the tips of the wing tubes - it was the same. For good measure I measured from the front wing tube tips to the tips of the stab tube also - once again the same.

When I start again tonight I will re-measure everything for the 10th time to be sure. Can you think of anything else I should check?

I wonder why my wings are out... I guess I'd better do more measurements on them to be sure. I asked Al if thought the phonolics could be in the wings wrong but he did't think so. Maybe I should mesure from wing tip trailing edge just to be sure the phonolics are not in at an angle?

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RE: 35% Panzl Pak Build - 11/30/2006 4:25:27 PM   
crhammond


 

Posts: 371
Joined: 8/31/2005
From: EdmontonAB, CANADA
Status: online 		Actually I never tried just putting the wings against the fuse without the tube - I will try that too.

Should the wing LE be straight like an Edge 540 or is there some taper?

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RE: 35% Panzl Pak Build - 11/30/2006 5:13:43 PM   
jtec radiowave kid



Posts: 103
Joined: 11/21/2005
From: Mooresville, NC, USA
Status: offline 		The wing should have a taper like an extra. As for what I know the 40% is the same way were you either build up or cut the root so they match the fuse. I believe it is because even though they are jig built at the factory when they cut the hole for the tube that can be different, so basically it is just so you can match it up perfectly.

This is in the instructions to the 40% I thought it was in the 35% instructions also but I may have forgotten to transfer it.


ADDENDUM TO 40% EXTRA PAK


Before gluing on the root rib to the wing it will be necessary to cut the trailing edge to make the proper fit to the fuselage.

To do this slide the wing on the wing tube till the trailing edge touches the fuselage.

Take a long piece of balsa and lay it between the wing and the fuselage. Draw a line on the balsa from the leading edge to the trailing edge along the wing side.

This will be the taper that needs to be cut. Place the wings back in the shuck; reverse the tapered piece so the wide end is now at the trailing edge. Transfer the line to the shucks. This will be the amount of Material you will need to remove from the root end of the wing for the proper fit to the fuselage.

Before you cut make sure you have the right taper and the right fit. Use the shuck as a test piece.


Hopefully that Helps,

Kevin


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RE: 35% Panzl Pak Build - 11/30/2006 7:56:09 PM   
crhammond


 

Posts: 371
Joined: 8/31/2005
From: EdmontonAB, CANADA
Status: online 		Yes Kevin - that helps and that is exactly what Al told me too. I guess jim got wings with the right taper right out of the box.

FYI there is nothing at all in the instructions about wings, stabs, mounting the vert stab etc. Only how to build the fuse. None of the diagrams mentioned are in the manual either - just 4 or 5 pics on the first few pages and then it's all text.

Chris.

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RE: 35% Panzl Pak Build - 11/30/2006 8:55:43 PM   
crhammond


 

Posts: 371
Joined: 8/31/2005
From: EdmontonAB, CANADA
Status: online 		Okay - I figured it out! Whoo hoo! I put a straight edge on both wing roots. The taper is fine right up until the "fairing." Both fairings are not stright-cut - they have a bow in each and the curve in to the fuse. A little sanding at the fairing and the wings will be fine.

Pictures attached...

Thats an easy fix so the wings should be on today

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RE: 35% Panzl Pak Build - 11/30/2006 9:38:29 PM   
jtec radiowave kid



Posts: 103
Joined: 11/21/2005
From: Mooresville, NC, USA
Status: offline 		Chris is that were you had to fix after the wing got damaged in shipping?


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RE: 35% Panzl Pak Build - 11/30/2006 9:55:47 PM   
extratorker


 

Posts: 273
Joined: 12/5/2004
From: new york, NY, USA
Status: offline 		Glad to see it was just minor.

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RE: 35% Panzl Pak Build - 11/30/2006 11:03:14 PM   
crhammond


 

Posts: 371
Joined: 8/31/2005
From: EdmontonAB, CANADA
Status: online 		Yup - prize goes to Kevin. I had to repair those fairings from breaking off during shipping. It looks like the gorilla glue expanded a lot and pushed them off a little (cause I know I set them on straight ) I still had to sand 3/16" off on the left wing - see picture. The right wing only needed the fairing sanded flush and a tiny amount of taper.

Pics below of the left wing process for capping and setting the incidence. Notice the meter at 0000.00 - never had one come out perfect before always 0.05 or 0.10 at best. The AeroPerfect meter is super sensitive... well, at least the left wing is perfect I can only do 1 wing at a time due to space restrictions.

Process I followed was:
Taper the wing to fit the fuse (it was easiest to lay blue tape out for the taper and sand with a long bar and 80 grit - VERY VERY messy but effective)
Sand the phonolic flush with the cap and cut recesses for the blind nuts in the foam
Add water and gorilla glue to the wing root - easy does it on the gorilla glue or you'll have a huge mess
Install wing and cap - screw the cap in place - butt the wing to the cap and set the incidence
Very carefully tack the cap to the wing at the LE and TE - don't get glue on the foam!
Remove carefully and tape the cap in place - use a lot of tape to secure the cap firmly to the sheeting
TIP: Leave the blue tape in place from marking the taper so that any foaming gorilla glue gets on the blue tape and not the sheeting
Install the wing and screw in the bolts
Re-check the incidence... go back every now and then as it dries to re-check

Now that the wings are under way I should be able to get the covering started tomorrow!
The rest of the goodies to finish the plane arrived today from TBM. One more trip to the LHS for covering and I should be able to get stuck in this weekend.

BTW - the Graphtec Aeroworks Extra 260 35% gear are a very close match for the stock gear - they are just 1/2" narrower width. I will weigh how much lighter they are... from feel it's a huge difference. Same with the wing tube - a massive difference in weight.


Attachments
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RE: 35% Panzl Pak Build - 11/30/2006 11:05:58 PM   
crhammond


 

Posts: 371
Joined: 8/31/2005
From: EdmontonAB, CANADA
Status: online 		Of course it's -30c outside and a ton of snow... so from the time I finish the plane (before Xmas I guess) I will have to look at it for 3 more months before I can fly it... oh well - gives me time to do maintenance on all the other planes so come spring I can go nuts again.

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RE: 35% Panzl Pak Build - 12/1/2006 4:22:13 AM   
crhammond


 

Posts: 371
Joined: 8/31/2005
From: EdmontonAB, CANADA
Status: online 		The right wing is setting up.

I took the opportunity to measure the weights of the carbon goodies vs. stock...

Stock landing gear: 22.3 oz ; carbon 11.2 oz
Stock wing tube 16.7 oz ; carbon 6.9 oz
Trun turn 5" spinner (approx) 10 oz ; carbon 4.4 oz
Normal tail wheel 4 oz ; carbon 1.6 oz

Total weight savings: 53 oz - 24.1 oz = 28.9 oz = 1.8 lbs!!!

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RE: 35% Panzl Pak Build - 12/1/2006 2:14:18 PM   
al


 

Posts: 187
Joined: 9/8/2003
From: mooresville, NC, USA
Status: offline 		Hey Chris,

We have more Kits, care for a 40% LOL

Al

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RE: 35% Panzl Pak Build - 12/1/2006 4:48:23 PM   
crhammond


 

Posts: 371
Joined: 8/31/2005
From: EdmontonAB, CANADA
Status: online 		Maybe next year Better get working on that 40% PANZL LOL.

Seriously - if I actually get out to some contests this year I will likely do a 40% next year (sell off everything and have a 35% and a 40%) ... but there's not a lot of point if I'm not competing from time-to-time. 35% is much bigger than just about any of the locals fly here anyway (hell - my 73" Edge was considered huge HA HA, when I got my Cap580 eveyones jaws dropped LOL.) The next thing I need is a trailer ... working on the wife for that one. She's slowly coming around as I fill the house with airframes HA HA.

I really hope to get to the Canadian Nationals in 2007 ... the 3,600KM drive is the issue (36 to 40 hrs non-stop...) - need a lot of time off work to get there. There is a contest in Kelowna BC too which is only a 10 or 12 hr drive. If I can find a club willing to host I will put on an event here too...

I have decided to do the same scheme layout but with some different colors. I plan to use some Ultracoat "carbon fiber" covering. Since I have so much winter build time left I am going to break out my airbrush stuff and go nuts on the cowl too. Think carbon fiber where it would normally be blue with the Desert Aircraft and JTec logos "floating" over it. The hatch will be carbon fiber too. It's in my head and will be very cool. I have some airbrush skills and lots of gear so why not...

Colors will be Carbon fiber, white, yellow, true red, and deep blue. In my mind it looks awesome... now for the execution... LOL. The star on the cowl will be replaced with a Canadian Maple leaf too. With the carbon spinner, gear and 25x12x3 Mej prop it's going to look awesome with the CF on the cowl, front of the wings and hatch too - it will all tie together so nice. There will be some yellow on the leading edges of the wings also - just for visability when landing - I will find a way to make that fit naturaly with the scheme. I found an auto place with a paint booth where they will let me paint from 8PM - 12PM no charge (I just have to buy the paint from them - which I needed to anyway since I want to have them match the covering with PPG paint.)

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RE: 35% Panzl Pak Build - 12/1/2006 4:51:06 PM   
crhammond


 

Posts: 371
Joined: 8/31/2005
From: EdmontonAB, CANADA
Status: online 		Damn - I guess if I'm going all out I'll need a composite creations pilot too... I never use pilots bu since I saved 1.8lbs with CF goodies I can probably handle the extra 2oz of weight LOL.

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