RE: 35% Panzl Pak Build  
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RE: 35% Panzl Pak Build - 12/6/2006 2:55:31 AM   
badazzbusa


 

Posts: 908
Joined: 12/12/2004
From: Mechanicsville, VA, USA
Status: offline 		Yeah, I thought of you the other night when I mounted my throttle and choke servos right in the middle of the pipe tunnel. It's got to get crowded trying to make room for two servos around those pipes. I just used some old mufflers made by this guy named Al, LOL. Just kidding Al, the mufflers look great and I won't tell you what Kevin said, ha,ha! My ARF is ALMOST finished, I only had a straight rudder servo arm and was getting alot of slack in the cable so I ordered a offset arm, it will be here tomorrow. That's all that is left and she is finished. I might get to maiden a Panzl this weekend.
Chris, since you said something about servo programming. I just got the Hitec programmer and this is my first plane with multiple servo ailerons. If you can give me any tips I'd appreciate it.
If anybody wants a good laugh, my wife came out to the garage to look at it and loved it. Of course she hit me with "how much did you spend on all of that?". My quick response was "I'm not sure on the total but the plane was on sale, it was $100.00 off."

(in reply to crhammond)
       Post #: 76

RE: 35% Panzl Pak Build - 12/6/2006 4:49:30 AM   
crhammond


 

Posts: 369
Joined: 8/31/2005
From: EdmontonAB, CANADA
Status: offline 		Using the programmer is fairly straight forward but time consuming. There are some great tips on www.downonthedeck.com - Joe is about the most experienced guy using the programmer.

Here is my procedure – it’s long, sorry…

First I decide what length and type of servo arms I will use. Then I mount the servo and arm. What I aim for is to have the control link parallel to the servo case at full deflection. To do this I set the surface to the maximum throw I want then I set the linkage parallel to the servo and a 90 degree angle between the linkage and the horn center line at center. The 90 degree angle is very important. I adjust the length of the link and the height of the connector above the surface to get it mechanically "right."

Go to www.downonthedeck.com and watch Joes programmer videos. I do the same thing but instead of guessing at the final numbers like he does use my last step from below to correct for the radio.

Wayne Geffon has a great article on IMAC setup here: http://www.****/forums/fg193/8976-carden-260-my-set-up-precision-aerobatics.html

Step 1 – re-set the servo so that all values are set to the same default – even if the servo is new. Disconnect the servo horns.

Step 2 – Measure the pulse of your radio at center and both end points using the measure pulse function for each axis. Make sure your ATV’s are MAXXED – you want the best possible resolution. When you are on full rates and your ATV is 140 you have the best resolution. WHen you step down to lower rates your ATV will still be high which ensures you have decent resolution at these lower rates. It will make the airplane feel smoother and more precise. The reason for measuring the pulse is that the servos are designed to expect a certain pulse frequency. In reality each radio produces slightly different pulses due to the stick travel, pots etc not being perfect. By recording the end points you’ll be able to compensate when programming. Alternatively you can use Joe from DOD’s trial and error method. I like math myself… I don’t have to guess.

Step 3 – Manually set the center to the same center pulse as measured in #2 for the given channel – on my 9303 this is 1498. The default the servo expects is 1500. Put the servo horn on as close to a 90 degree angle to the control link as you can get. Doing this just ensures that you use the minimum amount of center compensation. Not so important for IMAC throws but for 3D where you want full travel this is important.

Step 4 – Go to end point setting mode and set the Center point so that the horn and control link are 90deg to each other. I use a small builders triangle for this. The MLP arms have a center line stamped in them which helps a lot. Next set the end points by measuring the deflection you want on the surfaces. Move the dial very slowly on the programmer because it is very easy to over run the control arm and actually break your surfaces! A 5955 has enough torque to rip your surface to shreds. I’ve never done it but I have seen pictures and I’ve come close a couple of times. You can measure the deflection using a tool like the H9 meter, AeroPerfect, protractor type throw meter or a ruler. Honestly I use a ruler for surfaces – it’s plenty accurate and easy. I double check with my fancy aeroperfect after I have set them with a ruler – sometimes I fine tune them a little. I find the deflection meters are just too sensitive plus they add weight to the surface which tends to mess up the programmers ability to hold servo position. I re-check after using the radio and Rx batteries with a deflection meter.

Lastly – I compensate for the error in my radio pulses rather than using the trial and error method. For example say I find that to get my surface to the deflections I want I have a counter clockwise setting of 99 a center of -2 and a clockwise of setting of -102. Lets say I measured my pulses as 890, 1498 and 2090 in step 2. The programmer is designed for pulses of 900(CW), 1500(C) and 2100(CCW). So that means for my clockwise rotation I have to multiply my clockwise rotation number of by the ratio of the programmers expected pulse to it’s actual pulse … i.e. -102 * (900/890) = approx -103. For counter clockwise it would be 99 * (2100/2090) and center would be -2 * (1500/1498). No guessing required – when you use your radio the throws will match what you programmed.

The benefit of all this is that every plane has the same high rate programming, when you set lower rates you get good resolutions, the ATV %'s for rates, flight modes etc are linear - i.e. set low rates to 50% and you should get very near 50% of the max rates throw, it keeps the surfaces synchronized - for example when using split elevators they not only move the same travel they move at exactly the same speed...

Long winded, sorry. When I do my plane I will do a detailed step-by-step write up and also I might even do a little video how to. I think this is a very over looked procedure... I did this on all my planes last summer. Not one of them has ever needed a click of trim from the maiden flight - they are just perfect in terms of surface trim. Makes for nice uneventfull maiden flights and clean axial rolls (some planes need differential.)

< Message edited by crhammond -- 12/6/2006 4:57:19 AM >

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(in reply to badazzbusa)
       Post #: 77

RE: 35% Panzl Pak Build - 12/6/2006 5:08:21 AM   
jtec radiowave kid



Posts: 103
Joined: 11/21/2005
From: Mooresville, NC, USA
Status: offline 		oh no you listened to Wayne!!!

Just kidding Wayne is awesome with setups.


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       Post #: 78

RE: 35% Panzl Pak Build - 12/6/2006 8:38:02 PM   
crhammond


 

Posts: 369
Joined: 8/31/2005
From: EdmontonAB, CANADA
Status: offline 		This is also a good article on linkage setup: http://www.centralhobbies.com/instructional/linkages1/link01.html


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       Post #: 79

RE: 35% Panzl Pak Build - 12/7/2006 2:31:52 AM   
badazzbusa


 

Posts: 908
Joined: 12/12/2004
From: Mechanicsville, VA, USA
Status: offline 		Thanks, that helps alot.

(in reply to crhammond)
       Post #: 80

RE: 35% Panzl Pak Build - 12/9/2006 5:44:10 AM   
crhammond


 

Posts: 369
Joined: 8/31/2005
From: EdmontonAB, CANADA
Status: offline 		Okay - I got the motor box done. The engine is mounted, Ignition installed, throttle servo installed and programmed and the ignition cut-off installed. I painted the motor box gray for looks and fuel/oil protection.

The throttle servo is mounted in the bottom of the motor box. I used a long titanium pro-link. I am using a noise choke on the throttle and that should hopefully eliminate any interfernce. In have the throttle servo all the way forward in my old H9 33% Extra and it has not been a problem.

Tomorrow I plan to finish the fuse entirely except for the canopy. I will mount the gear, tail wheel, elevator servos, cap the canister tunnel, install the BIC, ignition battery, fuel lines, tank etc.

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       Post #: 81

RE: 35% Panzl Pak Build - 12/10/2006 2:11:43 AM   
Panzlflyer



Posts: 1929
Joined: 2/28/2002
From: Goldsboro, NC, USA
Status: online 		Looking good Chris!
formerly Andyt.....dont ask!!

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       Post #: 82

RE: 35% Panzl Pak Build - 12/11/2006 2:28:16 AM   
crhammond


 

Posts: 369
Joined: 8/31/2005
From: EdmontonAB, CANADA
Status: offline 		The fuse is mostly done now. Between yesterday and today I got a few hrs in during Jr's naps and mom taking him out a couple of times.

Completed:
Ignition system, canister tunnel, can mounting and header adjustments, landing gear, tail wheel, elevator servos, fuel system, BIC, batteries and started on the wires for the ailerons.

I should finish the fuse tonight. I just need to install the axles, wheels, pull-pull connectos. I may also do the rudder control setup and hinge the rudder. Soon I can start covering the wings. Looks like I am on track to finish next weekend (minus the cowl and canopy - which I always do last and I have to leave off until I decide pilot or no pilot...) Hopefully I can get the cowl done before we go on vacation (23rd)... I would love to test-fire the engine before Christmas.




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       Post #: 83

RE: 35% Panzl Pak Build - 12/11/2006 6:45:35 PM   
crhammond


 

Posts: 369
Joined: 8/31/2005
From: EdmontonAB, CANADA
Status: offline 		Well the rudder and pull-pull are done. I almost wrecked the airplane installing the rudder hinges. I did a few dry fits, got everything good and proceeded to glue. Well... I had a very hard time for some reason even though I had done a few trial runs. The hinge glue seemed to take a set in about 30 seconds... if you had to move something after that forget it. I had to use a HUGE amount of force to get the rudder on - I swear I almost broke the airplane and was expecting to hear a crack at any second... but I had no choice. The hinge glue is supposed to be slow cure but the sockets are so tight (even after a few dry runs) that the glue sets up very fast.

I got the rudder on but it is tighter at the top than the bottom and I have a bigger gap than I wanted Almost none at the top and maybe 1/16 at the bottom. Thank goodness I can seal the hinge gap otherwise I'd cry every time I saw it. The hinges are not coming out thats for sure. I have used robart hinge points in the past and really, really prefer them to these hinges. I can't imagine doing the wings... I will have to find a better way for sure as my current system will not work.

I tried some dubro hinges on scrap wood using aliphatic resin and had the same result as the hinge glue - once they are in there for 30 seconds they are in there forever - you have to break the wood to get them out.

Maybe probond / gorilla is the way to go? I hate the mess but you get a lot more working time.

Anyway - at least it all ended well enough with the rudder and pull-pull installed. I am using a Dubro heavy duty pull-pull setup which limits my rudder travel to 4". That should not be an issue as this plane will be set up for IMAC only and I guess 4" translates to around 40 deg (I will measure it later.) If I ever need more I will have to use a longer bolt and re-do my pull-pull cables.

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RE: 35% Panzl Pak Build - 12/12/2006 6:54:30 PM   
Panzlflyer



Posts: 1929
Joined: 2/28/2002
From: Goldsboro, NC, USA
Status: online 		I tried the hinge glue and it sets up way to fast.
I eventually used Titebond yellow glue and it worked just fine, even hinged one aileron and had to remove it because I missed a hinge!

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       Post #: 85

RE: 35% Panzl Pak Build - 12/13/2006 1:20:29 AM   
crhammond


 

Posts: 369
Joined: 8/31/2005
From: EdmontonAB, CANADA
Status: offline 		Yea - I did some more experimenting and plain old Sig Aliphatic Resin gives lots of time. That's what I will use from now on.

One wing covered! I suck at covering. Man I was pulling my hair out LOL. There ae mistakes here and there but it still looks good and from 3 ft away it looks perfect. I still have a few bubbles to tackle.
Holy cow it takes covering to do a plane this big!!! I have consumed almost 11 rolls now. The carbon rolls are shorter but still - 11 rolls!!! I used an entire roll of yellow just to make stripes LOL.

Here are some pics. The bottom of the wing was before I did the top - the bottom now has a CF leading edge and a yellow stripe.

I think it is coming out well. My main concern right now is with the CF leading edge on the wings... it looks cool but might make it hard to see on approach. Not sure what to do there - maybe a thin strip of red/white checker board on the leading edge.

There will be lettering on the wings too which will fill in the white and make it look a bit more complete too.

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       Post #: 86

RE: 35% Panzl Pak Build - 12/13/2006 4:47:12 AM   
extratorker


 

Posts: 273
Joined: 12/5/2004
From: new york, NY, USA
Status: offline 		Well it sure looks good to me. As for the hinges, after trying all sorts of glues I just stick with 30 minute epoxy. Never had one come out yet on me.

(in reply to crhammond)