35% Panzl Pak Build (Full Version)

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crhammond -> 35% Panzl Pak Build (11/11/2006 6:26:35 PM)

I am about to start on a 35% Panzl build.

First - Al and Kevin offer excellent service and have answered all my emails and calls with lots of information and help. Thanks guys!

I have built a small electric and 1/2 of a 4-star 60. I have also assembled and repaired a lot of ARF’s including major modification and repairs to a GP Cap 580 33%. This build will be REALLY step-by step… as in pictures of each and every piece of wood going in.

I received my boxes last week - beat to hell courtesy of UPS. Everything is packaged very well, double boxed, lots of foam, sheeted parts still in the shucks… so the only issues I had were the fairings on both wings (the solid part in-board of each aileron) were broken off and the wing sheeting had some minor dings that will require some balsa filler and sanding. I glued the fairings back on with gorilla glue and used masking tape to hold them in place and stop the foam from making a mess. It was not worth going after UPS since I am in Canada... I just did the easy repair.

I picked up 2 x 10’ lengths of aluminium angle to keep the fuse true while building it. I will be building on the most true 4’ x 8’ sheet of drywall I can find levelled on a work table.

I’m away for a few more days but will start posting pictures of the build next week.

This is a very big airplane – the cowl absolutely dwarfs the cowl of my cap 580… which is almost the same size as a Carden 35% cap.

My setup will be:
DA100 MTW TD75 Cans, 70mm drop headers
5” Pete CF spinner
25 x 12 x 3 Mejzlik or 27B Vess prop
PBG CF wing tube
Smartfly ignition cutoff, Power Expander Sport
Emcotec BIC
MPI 5.4v failsafe regulated switch for ignition
Fromeco Peerless 2400 LiIo x 3
3 x 5955 servos for tail surfaces
4 x 5985 servos for ailerons
1 x 5625 servo for throttle
GP control horns and ball links from a GP Cap 580 (very good stuff)
Hangar 9 pro-links Ti linkages
PSP Ti wheel axles
Pete Model tailwheel
RTL fastners
Pilot TBD… maybe a helmet head
Likely Ultracoat – although I have had good experience with MonoKote lately and I like the shine… we’ll see.

Chris.



extratorker -> RE: 35% Panzl Pak Build (11/12/2006 12:40:49 AM)

Chris, here's a couple of the PAK Panzls I've built, and also some pics of my Panzl ARF's. It's by far my favorite 35% airplane. I just flew it today again, and it just gets better and better each time. I've also built one of the PAK 35% Extra's. If you have any questions, I'd be happy to help.



crhammond -> RE: 35% Panzl Pak Build (11/12/2006 4:15:57 AM)

Cool - thanks for the offer. I think I'm going to do the scheme from Loren Smith's plane here: http://www.iac78.org/panzl.htm




badazzbusa -> RE: 35% Panzl Pak Build (11/12/2006 6:56:13 PM)

That scheme will look awesome! I can't wait to see it. I'm getting ready to start on my Panzl also, I got the ARF a couple weeks ago. It is definitly a great looking plane. I'm also using a DA100, I got the JTEC mufflers, 5955's in the tail, 5645's for the ailerons, Airwild NOVA spinner, 27x10 CF prop, (3) 2400 TBM Li-ions, Fromeco regs and switches, airwild arms and Hanger 9 horns and Ti-rods.

I also have the PSP axles, they will work but use alot of thread lock. After they go thru the pant and gear, there is only about 3 threads left to screw the nut on. Also, someone recommended for me to get 1.5" arms for the elev., they are to long, they hit the bottom of the horizontal stab, 1.25" is perfect.



crhammond -> RE: 35% Panzl Pak Build (11/15/2006 5:16:22 AM)

Okay - here we go.

Tonight I set up my build area. I am kind of cramped since it is freaking cold and snowy outside so I am building in the storage room so we can park in the garage. It's not as bad as it looks in the picture - the table is 6 ft long, the Cap is 35%, the Yak is 30%... so the room is a lot bigger than the picture suggests.

Anyway... I got a couple of pieces of very flat laminate. I used a 4' long aluminum level to set everything up and found out my table has a slight warp that I will have to shim out once I am framing the fuse - no big deal since I have the aluminum angle to hold the fuse square.

Step 1 is straight forward, identify the left and right fuse side, glue them together. Keep the top straight using aluminum angle or a straight edge as per the instructions. All my wood is warped a bit due to the temperature and humidity being off here (very cold and very, very dry) so I used some clamps to hold the seam flat while it dried.

Step 2 – just follow the directions and glue in the doubler. I used a lot of clamps again to hold it flat while drying. I used a razor saw to take a tiny amount of the end of the doublers as they were a tad long. I also put the longerons in place just to be sure everything fit right.

Step 3 – draw in the lines at the back of the slots as per the manual

Next is the longerons – so at this point I have a question… I don’t have 8 x 3/8 square balsa sticks I have 4 very long ones pre-spliced. If I use these to make 4 longerons I’ll have 2 splices on 2 longerons. I’m not sure if I use those or not. So I’m stopping for the night and will read ahead in the manual. The plans didn’t shed a lot of light other than they do show where the longerons go on the Panzl which is slightly different than in the pictures (pics are of the Extra.) The other 3/8 pieces appear to be the cross braces. (well I just read the manual some more and I think I am missing 4 sticks... but I could be wrong.)

Tomorrow I’ll probably make a lot more progress – basically because I am using aliphatic resin the build is only as fast as the amount of clamps I have HA HA. You need a LOT of clamps for a big plane like this.



crhammond -> RE: 35% Panzl Pak Build (11/15/2006 10:54:34 PM)

For the fuse sides assembly there are a few differences between the Panzl and Extra and a couple things different from the manual:

For the Longerons, my Panzl came with 4 x 3/8" square balsa sticks (not 8) that were not quite long enough top and bottom so they required a small splice. I got a 4' 3/8 square balsa stick to make up the difference.
The top longerons on the Panzl run from F1 (F2 is notched top and bottom for the longerons) to the rise for the rudder.
The bottom longerons run from the landing gear plate to the tail gear plate.

In order to keep the longerons flush with the ply walls I used aluminum angle and a lot of clamps. I pre-clamped everything first, wiped away the excess glue and then re-clamped to the aluminum angle on the top and sides. The longerons at the top of the fuse are the refernece for setting the wing incidence so they must be perfectly flush with the ply walls.



crhammond -> RE: 35% Panzl Pak Build (11/17/2006 2:18:52 AM)

Formers F6 - F3 are now re-enforced with 3/8" stick balsa.
Both fuse sides have longerons and re-enforcing plates installed.

I did a dry fit and it looks good, snug and seems to be aligning well.

I will be gluing F6 - F4 next once I am 100% sure everything is square.



crhammond -> RE: 35% Panzl Pak Build (11/18/2006 5:18:14 AM)

Tonight the most stressful part was completed - gluing F6 - F4.

Here are the changes from the Extra manual:
1. The fuse width at front is 11 7/8" - so when you draw the top view it is as per the manual only the F1 width is narrower
2. The 3/8 balsa re-enforcing on the formers should be tapered to fit the fuse sides to get the best possible fit. You can put it together without doing this but you won’t have a nice a fit or as much glue surface area. It's not a quick job but worth it. My tapers weren’t perfect but they came out okay.

Be sure not to glue in F3.

I made a "jig" using 2 aluminum angles clamped to the table in-line with the top view.
I fit the fuse together and then slid it between the aluminum angles.
Then I held the fuse down (it was almost but not quite perfectly flat) and used spring clamps to hold it down.
Then I applied a bunch of clamps to hold the sides in against the formers.
Next I took a steel triangle and made sure the sides were straight.
Lastly I measured down from the wing tube and stab tube to be sure they were level.

At this point I removed the clamps from F4 - F6 and the hold down clamps.
I glued the formers, re-set them in the fuse, put the fuse in the jig, re-clamped and repeated the above measurements.

Hopefully it is straight - it seems to be as far as I am able to measure.



Panzlflyer -> RE: 35% Panzl Pak Build (11/18/2006 10:42:30 PM)

I found that the holes for the Horizontal stab mounts were not in the right place but its easy enough to drill new ones...looks good. just finished mine.



crhammond -> RE: 35% Panzl Pak Build (11/19/2006 2:04:58 AM)

Hey Andy - I have a BUNCH of questions I send to Al and Kevin but I guess they have a family situation and are not around this week... maybe you can help me out since you have built one :)

1. The motor box sides extend 8.75" from F1. What offset do I need on the left side to get the thrust correct?

2. Is 8.75" the correct motor box length past F1 to fit the cowl?

3. How does the rudder attach? I see a 1/8" balsa fin cap mentioned on the plans but I can't find anything matching that description in the parts. Do I need to make a cap for the rudder? If so what are the dimensions?

4. The turtle deck sheeting overlaps the foam quite a bit. Should it be trimmed even with the foam for mounting? The manual simply says to place it on the fuse using some shims - but I have not idea where to place it... I guess it obviously needs to line up with the hatch but I don't know what angle the cap should be at and since nothing is mentioned about where the rudder goes I don't know how far back to place the turtle deck.

Maybe the procedure is to glue the med-hard balsa cap to the rudder, glue that to the fuse back-plate and then but the turtle deck up against the rudder. Then I'd need to somehow sheet around the rudder? ... help please :)

5. I have a piece of 1/4" ply wood similar to the front of the engine box but wider (not the LG plate either.) What is that piece for?

Lastly (I hope...)
There are a bunch of pieces of rought-cut 1/8" ply that I'm not sure what to do with. Are those for making a canister tunnel?

Andy - if you can shed any light that would be great. I have all formers glued now plus some of the cross braces. Tonight I will do some re-enforcing around the front formers.



Panzlflyer -> RE: 35% Panzl Pak Build (11/19/2006 3:38:30 AM)

Breath!!![:D]

The rudder glues on to a flat plate that fits on top of the fuse sides ( I added some balsa to bring it up to the corect height) and there shoud be a triangleish trailing edge that glues to the trailing edge of the Vertical and goes all the way down to the tail wheel area, it will need its sides sanded flush with the verticle stab. the Plywood formers for the turtledeck will actually help you place the turtledeck and you can shim out any gaps with balsa ( before you glue it in ) the hatch shape will be dictated by the turtledeck so do it later.
You sheet the area back from the turtledeck....I beleive this was covered in another thread but basically use some lighter and thinner balsa than supplied to box in the area , its easier than it sounds
So the turtle deck touches the front of the Vertical stab and you sheet backwards, is that confusing? hope not
I laminated the ply for a motor mount and I believe Al told me he throws extra in.
I had some issues with the offset on the firewall and ended up using an angle finder and I also cut the firewall shorter so I could use standoffs as it fit my mufflers better.
i may have some pics,



Panzlflyer -> RE: 35% Panzl Pak Build (11/19/2006 3:39:40 AM)

Here ya go
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_3767979/tm.htm



Panzlflyer -> RE: 35% Panzl Pak Build (11/19/2006 3:50:49 AM)

heres some



crhammond -> RE: 35% Panzl Pak Build (11/19/2006 3:57:58 AM)

Thanks a ton Andy!



crhammond -> RE: 35% Panzl Pak Build (11/19/2006 7:57:53 PM)

As of last night I had all the formers glued and the top cross bracing in place.

This morning I re-measured everything. Nice and true, wing and stab tubes parallel and exactly the same distance above the table each side. Whew, that’s a relief :)

Then I finished the bottom cross bracing.
Next I re-enforced the F2 former and also added some hard balsa and ply to take out a very slight bow.
Finally I installed the landing gear plate and some tri-stock re-enforcement.

Now that I am this far along and thanks to Andy I can see the rest is pretty straight forward as far as attaching the rudder, turtle deck and hatch.

Later today (after the NASCAR race) I will finish re-enforcing and add the stringers.
After that I plan to figure out how I will be routing the wires for the elevator servos (probably a cardboard tube), add in a an antenna tube and plan for mounting the rudder servo for pull-pull. I plan to use a single 5955 servo on spruce rails. I will allow for adding a 2nd servo just in case.
After that I will work on the motor box, figuring out the thrust, engine placement, cowl etc.
Then I will mount the canisters and build a tunnel.
Once all that is done I will set the incidence and cap the wings a tail feathers.
Then - finally add the rudder, turtle deck and hatch.

Man - building is fun but there is still a lot to do!



Panzlflyer -> RE: 35% Panzl Pak Build (11/20/2006 3:22:22 PM)

Wait till you fly it...it will be worth it, mine flew yesterday as straight as a Comp Arf.



crhammond -> RE: 35% Panzl Pak Build (11/21/2006 6:22:45 AM)

Okay - lots more done tonight.

I started on mounting the canisters. I have the front mount in. I just need to add a spacer inside to keep the cans apart. I also need to box them in.
The gear block is in and re-enforced. I did some measuring and the Graphtec gear from the GP Cap 580 will work nicely. They don't go all the way across the gear block but they are the exact same height and width as the stock gear. They are much, much lighter... I didn't use a scale but I would say at least 12oz - maybe more.

It's a lot less work and cleaner to mount up the electronics, hold downs, fuel dots etc while the fuse is in the bones so:
I installed rails for the rudder servo (room for 2 if needed)
I installed mounts for the Emcotec BIC and Power expander

I made a tank tray and mounted it above the wing tube.

I started working on the rudder mount. It looks like the trailing edge is a little too long (about 1/8") as the hinge marks were out a little. I need a floor about 1/4" thick to lift the rudder to the right height. Balsa seems too fl;imsy for this but I will ask Al. The last thing I want is to add tail weight...

Tomorrow I will run a tube for the antenna and rear servo wires, plumb the tank, mount the fuel dot and if I have time start measuring for the motor box. I'll come back to the rudder later.
Al suggested building the hatch before the turtle deck so that will come after the motor box is done, the cans are enclosed and the motor has been mounted.



Panzlflyer -> RE: 35% Panzl Pak Build (11/21/2006 1:08:18 PM)

If you are talking about what the actual rudder/vertical stab sits on then I added a 1/8 skin of balsa and then glued the vertical on it.
Tail weight was not an issue even tho Ive got the SWB arm epoxied in to the rudder and an additional arm for the tailwheel steering.
In fact moving the ignition battery from forward of the wing tube to the former F1 is all that was needed to move cg backwards and forwards, although my cowl is fairly heavy.
Sheeted the tail area with much lighter balsa as its not particularly structural imo.
I have the same servos as you in the tail and rudder and it seems plenty, I did add a tiller arm to take the strain off the servo output.



crhammond -> RE: 35% Panzl Pak Build (11/21/2006 5:06:29 PM)

Yes - I was talking about the floor that the vertical fin gets glued too. My concern is that the only thing really holding it on are the trailing edge and the floor. Both are just balsa but I guess that is enough to hold it in place.

How did you form the cap for the vertical fin that runs from the turtle deck? It is just a case if trial and error to get the shape to look right? I was thinking it might be better to use thicker balsa and sand it to shape? That would also give more strength.

I have done a fair amount of re-enforcing. I am willing to spend money on carbon goodies to keep the weight down and put a little more weight in the fuse to be sure it lasts a really long time. I don't think a little resin and tri-stiock add much weight but they sure add strength.

This building is really fun. I don't plan to do another one for a long time - but I think from now on I will build.



Panzlflyer -> RE: 35% Panzl Pak Build (11/22/2006 12:46:59 AM)

I actually had some really light and thin lite ply that I used for the floor with balsa on top.
To aid in the sheeting I used little 1/4 balsa triangle stock to give some glue area and then cut out the 1/16 balsa sheeting and glued in place...thin being easy to bend round the stab and easy to glue in place with the aid of the triangle behind it.
Little bit of filler and it ended up pretty strong. I believe it was Extratorker who suggested that and he has built a few of them that look good and fly good



extratorker -> RE: 35% Panzl Pak Build (11/22/2006 1:36:33 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: crhammond

Hey Andy - I have a BUNCH of questions I send to Al and Kevin but I guess they have a family situation and are not around this week... maybe you can help me out since you have built one :)

1. The motor box sides extend 8.75" from F1. What offset do I need on the left side to get the thrust correct?

2. Is 8.75" the correct motor box length past F1 to fit the cowl?

3. How does the rudder attach? I see a 1/8" balsa fin cap mentioned on the plans but I can't find anything matching that description in the parts. Do I need to make a cap for the rudder? If so what are the dimensions?

4. The turtle deck sheeting overlaps the foam quite a bit. Should it be trimmed even with the foam for mounting? The manual simply says to place it on the fuse using some shims - but I have not idea where to place it... I guess it obviously needs to line up with the hatch but I don't know what angle the cap should be at and since nothing is mentioned about where the rudder goes I don't know how far back to place the turtle deck.

Maybe the procedure is to glue the med-hard balsa cap to the rudder, glue that to the fuse back-plate and then but the turtle deck up against the rudder. Then I'd need to somehow sheet around the rudder? ... help please :)

5. I have a piece of 1/4" ply wood similar to the front of the engine box but wider (not the LG plate either.) What is that piece for?

Lastly (I hope...)
There are a bunch of pieces of rought-cut 1/8" ply that I'm not sure what to do with. Are those for making a canister tunnel?

Andy - if you can shed any light that would be great. I have all formers glued now plus some of the cross braces. Tonight I will do some re-enforcing around the front formers.


Not sure if your questions are answered yet, but the 1/8" ply should be for the wheel pant reinforcements, the 1/4 ply is for making the tailwheel bracket plate.

As for the turtledeck, if you notice there is a "step at the rear, top of the fuse. The back of the turtle deck gets bumped right up to that. Your correct, cap the bottom of the vertical stab, glue down the turtle deck using a couple of shims (do not trim the overhang from the sheeting) then attach the vertical fin to the fuse structure and sheet around it.

You should also have a ply former that is just a tad shorter then the former that fits into the rear of the turtle deck, that gets glued onto the rear deck and holds the front of the sheeting that will go around the rudder.



extratorker -> RE: 35% Panzl Pak Build (11/22/2006 1:40:42 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: crhammond

Yes - I was talking about the floor that the vertical fin gets glued too. My concern is that the only thing really holding it on are the trailing edge and the floor. Both are just balsa but I guess that is enough to hold it in place.

How did you form the cap for the vertical fin that runs from the turtle deck? It is just a case if trial and error to get the shape to look right? I was thinking it might be better to use thicker balsa and sand it to shape? That would also give more strength.

I have done a fair amount of re-enforcing. I am willing to spend money on carbon goodies to keep the weight down and put a little more weight in the fuse to be sure it lasts a really long time. I don't think a little resin and tri-stiock add much weight but they sure add strength.

This building is really fun. I don't plan to do another one for a long time - but I think from now on I will build.


Also, please don't go crazy with reinforcing anything except the gear plate with some triangle. I've got probably close to 100 gallons through these planes, and have flown them very, very hard. Actually to the point of trying to break something. Full throttle Blenders, Walls, parachutes. You name, this plane is strong when built completely stock. You'd be very surprised at how fast a little extra wood and glue will add weight. All of my planes have been in the 27-28.5 LB range.



extratorker -> RE: 35% Panzl Pak Build (11/22/2006 3:53:27 AM)

Maybe these will help.



extratorker -> RE: 35% Panzl Pak Build (11/22/2006 3:56:52 AM)

couple more



crhammond -> RE: 35% Panzl Pak Build (11/22/2006 4:32:32 PM)

Holy cow! Thanks for the help Jim - those shots and explanations are great!

I have not added much re-enfircement at all. Just a little tri-stock and 3/8 hard balsa here and there. Once I got the bottom stringers in I realized that this thing is really going to be strong as-is.

I am making a lot of progress. I started on the hatch last night, got the cowl mounted using 6-32 screws and blind nuts, added a conduit for the tail wires, plumbed the fuel tank and mounted the fuel dot.

I was also planning to do the motor box and spent a lot of time measuring but I'm not sure if I want to use a mount or put the motor box front in at 2.75 deg. I'm not super confident in my ability to make tapers and measure for the front of the motor box. I don't like the idea of washers either since the morot mount won't sit flush on them... so I may break down and order a SWB mount. I am confident I can glue in the front of the box square HA HA.

More pics later... not that they are needed after seeing Jim's pics :)

At the current rate of progress covering should start next week!



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