Z -Poxy anyone?  
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Z -Poxy anyone? - 1/21/2003 10:54:22 PM   
FalconWings



Posts: 2730
Joined: 3/27/2002
From: Fort Worth, TX, USA
Status: offline 		Hi guys,

Im currently finishing a Top Flite P-47 model (the .60 size version), but my question is kind of general. I've read a couple of articles posted on RCU on fiberglassing techniques, but none of them mention the use of Z-Poxy finishing resin. Is there a problem if use it to fiberglass my airplane?.

I've already started using it, it appears to me that it takes perhaps too long to cure overnight usually). But other than that i think it's pretty good. But I need you guy's input on this, before I start the wing and fuselage.

Thank you so much for your attention.
       Post #: 1

Glassing... - 1/21/2003 11:05:56 PM   
justrfb



Posts: 364
Joined: 5/1/2002
From: Stanhope, NJ, USA
Status: offline 		Hi FalconWings,
I cannot speak for Z-poxy but I can tell you that by my research I have found that there are alot of people going over to the "Polycrylic" and "Polyurethane" side of the fence. They are using these finishing products to glass instead of epoxy resins... I will be following ProfLooney's method outline on his webpage

http://home.mchsi.com/~jahuntley/

to finish my TF P51B. I hope this helps...

Justrfb (checking all my options)

(in reply to FalconWings)
       Post #: 2

Z -Poxy anyone? - 1/22/2003 3:07:37 AM   
F4u5



Posts: 1819
Joined: 1/19/2002
From: Apple Valley, MN, USA
Status: offline 		I have used Minwax poly-crylic for 6 years now and it works good. I also use enviro-tex from the hardware store..epoxy based product, but a very hard finish. I usually apply one thinned coat (50 percent with 91 percent iso alcohol) of the enviro-tex (to seal the wood) and then 2-3 coates of the poly-crylic. I actually found a common problem with Z-Poxy, in that, it never seems to cure, and continues to shrink over time, eventually showing weave and wood grain over time. Plus, it is hard to sand.

(in reply to FalconWings)
       Post #: 3

Z -Poxy anyone? - 1/22/2003 3:22:00 AM   
FalconWings



Posts: 2730
Joined: 3/27/2002
From: Fort Worth, TX, USA
Status: offline 		F4u5,

I agree that Z-Poxy is extremely hard to sand, even when wet-sanding. I think I'm starting to become a Polyurethane believer. I think I'm going to give it a try.

Thanks for your post!

(in reply to FalconWings)
       Post #: 4

Just Wondering . . . - 1/22/2003 4:36:32 AM   
kram51



Posts: 625
Joined: 4/11/2002
From: Barboursville, VA, USA
Status: offline 		I'm almost done with my first major glassing project, a Byron P-51. I've heard of the other glassing methods but due to the glass directly over foam approach of the older kits I stayed with Z-Poxy. I've had nothing but success with it! I wonder how much temperature has to do with the curing times you're seeing? I glass my wing last night, 2 oz cloth, and sanded the excess off this morning. No curing problems anywhere. Sands easily enough yet the finish is not soft in anyway. I can't speak about "shrinkage" (nor would I want to here!) but only time will tell about that. I'm curious, although the point is moot now, what else would you recommend to use in this instance?

Mark

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Mark
Perfecting the one point landing . . .

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       Post #: 5

Z-Poxy - 1/22/2003 5:39:21 AM   
bobripley-RCU


 

Posts: 188
Joined: 9/19/2002
From: Hurricane, WV
Status: offline 		Hi Mark,

I have used Z-Poxy on three projects and absolutely love it. In the summer time you can sand the next day, wintertime garage building may take an extra 24 hours but it all works out the same, an easy to sand surface that is hard as a rock afterwards. On my Hawker Hurricane, I painted the wing roundels by laying 3” masking tape on the wing and then cut through the masking with a compass holding a new # 11 blade were the pencil usually is held. It worked great. I can’t speak to other techniques but this is the true test for me. Rip

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Rip

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       Post #: 6

WOW! - 1/22/2003 7:21:06 AM   
kram51



Posts: 625
Joined: 4/11/2002
From: Barboursville, VA, USA
Status: offline 		Nice Hurricane! Is that a Vaillencourt? Excellent panel line and rivet detail, if I may say so.
On the debate over Z-Poxy vs. Poly (and others) I may try the Poly approach on my TF GS P-51. I think that lends itself to that type of finish. I must say though that to this point I am quite satisfied with the Z!

Mark

_____________________________

Mark
Perfecting the one point landing . . .

(in reply to FalconWings)
       Post #: 7

Z -Poxy anyone? - 1/22/2003 9:32:10 PM   
FalconWings



Posts: 2730
Joined: 3/27/2002
From: Fort Worth, TX, USA
Status: offline 		OK guys,

I went to Home Depot last night and got myself a can of Min-Wax Polycrilyc. So I tried a different approach: I laid the .56 oz fibergalss cloth using Z-Poxy, then applied 2 coats of Polycrilyc to fill it in. It is extremely easy and CLEAN to use, since it is water based. I went down to my garage this morning to checked it out, and it feels hard as a rock! I can't wait to return home after work to start wet sanding.

This Resin/Polymer combination seems like a winner to me. I'll keep you posted.

P.S. Could I use the same Polycrilyic to lay down the fiberglass cloth?

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Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and try to beat you with experience.

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Z -Poxy anyone? - 1/22/2003 9:59:51 PM   
k_sonn



Posts: 1134
Joined: 2/15/2002
From: Bellevue, WA, USA
Status: offline 		I was one of the hard core epoxy resin guys but a couple of weeks ago I experimented with Minwax Polycrilyc on the elevators of a Tucano I am building. On one elevator I laid the glass cloth down with a coat of West Marine resin. On the other elevator I laid the glass down with a coat of polycrilyc. After the two elevators dried, I brushed a coat of polycrilyc on both elevators. After that coat dried I mixed up a batch polycrilyc and microballons and brushed it on both elevators. Once that dried I wet sanded both elevators and the weave was filled. They are both hard as a rock and the cool thing is that you can not tell which elevator has the epoxy on it. I went ahead and finished the wings with polycrilyc (the glass had already been laid down with one coat of epoxy resin). I must say that the elevators were made of foam core and covered with balsa sheeting. I have not tried to lay glass down with polycrilyc on a structure that was built up. I have heard of others having the balsa sheeting warp on built up structures but I think it is probably a case of too much polycrilyc used to lay the glass. I am a converted believer in polycrilyc.

By the way, if you are going to use epoxy resin then I recommend West Marine epoxy resin. It does not shrink like Zpoxy, it is easy to sand, it has a low viscosity (Tinner) than Zpoxy so it does not need to be diluted, and the drying time can be adjusted.

(in reply to FalconWings)
       Post #: 9

Z-Poxy - 1/23/2003 12:49:03 AM   
Bruiser-RCU


 

Posts: 204
Joined: 12/10/2001
From:
Status: offline 		I've only every used Z-Poxy and I did not see any problems with it. Put the cloth on, squegee on Z-Poxy with a playing card and allow to dry overnight. Scuff up Z-Poxy to break the gloss and squegee on another layer and allow to dry. Again, scuff up z-Poxy and then brush on primer. When primer dries, wet sand until smooth and it should be ready for the finish, starting with a coat of sprayed-on primer.

I do have a friend here that likes West System better. He says it sands easier but Ihave never tried it.

BTW, Z-Ppoxy has to be a 50-50 mix or you will have curing problems...

-Bob George

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Got to love it when somebody recognized the scale model you just finished!

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Z -Poxy anyone? - 1/28/2003 10:09:27 PM   
FalconWings



Posts: 2730
Joined: 3/27/2002
From: Fort Worth, TX, USA
Status: offline 		Thank you all for your posts!

I tried using Policrylic first over Z-Poxy laid .56 oz fiberglass. Im still amazed on how easy to work with the Polycrilic really is. It also sets a lot faster and harder than Z-Poxy.

After doing this and geting excellent results, I then tried to lay the cloth down using Polycriclic (minwax brand is the one I'm using. The results were by far better than using resin! The Polycriclic is easy to spread, and not gooey at all. And the best feature I found was that it is easy to sand, not to mention that now I can reuse all my brushes by just washing them with warm water.

About wood warping---I don't know, it hasn't happened to my bird, but I can assure you it is well built. We'll see.

Thank you all for your posts. In conclusion, I'm a Polycrilic believer and will stay away from the epensive Z-Poxy.

_____________________________

Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and try to beat you with experience.

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       Post #: 11

Z -Poxy anyone? - 1/28/2003 10:41:04 PM   
Burrito Bandito



Posts: 622
Joined: 5/1/2002
From: Collierville, TN, USA
Status: offline 		Falcon Wings,

I guess I'm not a convert to polycrylic, since I never used epoxy, but WarbirdFanatic told me about Polycrylic and the first time I used it, I was very impressed. Epoxy resin always intimidated me. Regarding the concerns everyone is having about warping, I would suppose it could happen, if too much were applied, but I guess it would really need to be a lot.

I was taught to use those foam applicator brushes you can get almost anywhere. It seems to keep the "load" light when applying the cloth. These applicators can get full of poly, but then all you need to do is rinse with warm water, pat dry with towel and continue. I'm not gonna try to make a situation where warping is a problem, but it is hard for me to imagine how it would be. Glad to hear you liked the process.

Thanks to Warbird Fanatic for teaching me how to use polycrilic.

Regards,
John


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John

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       Post #: 12

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