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RE: Seagull Yak? - 12/7/2011 12:21 AM   
Slow and Steady


 

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Status: offline 		The text for the UBEC says it is for nitro planes. I am not sure it was designed for the same use as a BEC, but saving $35 may be worth experimenting.

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RE: Seagull Yak? - 12/7/2011 12:34 AM   
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Status: offline 		I'm not sure what the "U" stands for but, a BEC is commonly built in to most ESCs for electric planes & heli's.  A "UBEC" usually indicates it is separate from the ESC ...which is what you want. 
Yes, it will work with a glow or gas powered airplane.  If you run one battery & UBEC to your receiver and another battery & UBEC to your ignition you'll be fine. 
Just make sure you're buying quality equipment ....and don't run both pieces of gear off one battery.

RJ



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RE: Seagull Yak? - 12/8/2011 4:18 AM   
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Status: offline 		The BEC is utilized to allow one battery to power both the servos and the ignition. It is commonly refered to as a battery eliminator.

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RE: Seagull Yak? - 12/8/2011 4:25 AM   
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Status: offline 		Yes.  Now, please tell me what the "U" in UBEC means.
BEC = Battery Eliminator Circuit
UBEC = U??? Battery Eliminator Circuit

RJ



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RE: Seagull Yak? - 12/8/2011 4:33 AM   
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Status: offline 		I don't fly electrics. The battery elimator (BEC) is sold specifically to eliminate the need for a second battery on a gas plane. It filters interference while allowing the receiver to supply power to the ignition. There may be similar mechanisms used with electrics, but the item I am referencing was specifically designed for gasoline powered planes utilzing a electronic ignition.

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RE: Seagull Yak? - 12/8/2011 5:16 AM   
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ORIGINAL: Slow and Steady

I don't fly electrics. The battery elimator (BEC) is sold specifically to eliminate the need for a second battery on a gas plane. It filters interference while allowing the receiver to supply power to the ignition. There may be similar mechanisms used with electrics, but the item I am referencing was specifically designed for gasoline powered planes utilzing a electronic ignition.



It doesn't matter whether you fly electrics or not ...you're mis-informed about the purpose of BECs. 

BECs do the same job for electric flying machines.  They are not exclusive to RC gas engines. 
Most ESCs (Electronic Speed Control) for electric airplanes have a built-in BEC ...or you can install a separate BEC (UBEC?).  The ESC controls the motor RPM and the BEC controls the voltage.
The BEC (UBEC?) regulates the input voltage down to the correct output voltage.  In the case of a receiver or ignition, the output is between 4.8 volts and 6 volts ....some are voltage selectable. 
In the case of electric planes/helis, etc., the ESC/BEC combo does eliminate the need for an additional receiver (or motor) battery.  The BEC is there to reduce the voltage for the receiver as most (all?) are rated for a max of 6 volts.

If you want to use a 3 cell LIPO (11.4 volts nominal) or a 2 cell LIPO (7.4 volts nominal) for the ignition on your gas plane, use a BEC rated for an input of 12 to 13 volts (or more) and, if it's programed for 6 volt output, it will drop the voltage to 6 volts and no more.  If you want to use a 6.6 volt (nominal) A123 battery, you can plug it directly into your ignition and gamble that it will take 7.2 volts (at full charge) OR you can use a BEC with a rated output of 6 volts to make sure you don't damage your ignition.
A BEC is a step-down transformer/voltage regulator.  It does NOT eliminate the need for an extra battery.

If you need any further help understanding this, please feel free to reply to this post or PM me.

By the way, you're making a big mistake if you plan to run your receiver and ignition from the same battery.  You're airplane will be much safer using a separate battery (and BEC) for each system.
You can run two 2 cell LIPOs at 2100mah each and together they will be lighter than one 6.6 volt 2300mah A123. 

RJ




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RE: Seagull Yak? - 12/8/2011 5:30 AM   
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Status: offline 		There is more than one way to address a concern. But out of concern for others on this thread, I would like to clarify one thing. The BEC I am refering to is specifically designed to allow one battery to power both the ignition and receiver. It is available from Chief, 42 Percent Products and Syssa. Its primary function is to filter noise eminating from the ignition. It has nothing to do with electric planes. It is commonly refered to as a "battery eliminator". Syssa refers to it as an IBE or "ignition battery eliminator" and here is the link:

http://www.syssaaircraft.net/cart/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=15&idcategory=2

Due to the weight of this plane, it is a worthwhile option.

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RE: Seagull Yak? - 12/8/2011 5:38 AM   
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Status: offline 		Good luck

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RE: Seagull Yak? - 12/8/2011 1:02 PM   
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Status: offline 		Slowand steary, Might I ask ? How long have you been flying with one battery for both ?

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RE: Seagull Yak? - 12/8/2011 4:50 PM   
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Status: offline 		I am doing the same as slow and steady and so are many others with 20 cc gas engine in that I run the ignition off the rx on some of my models.   Many now use the syysa battery eliminator bec with filtering/opto  and a single a123/life battery to do this especially on the 3d 20cc size profiles where weight is a issue.   This unit has been around for over 6 months and so far I can not think of a single person who has reported interference, the system is only advised for 2.4 ghz radios at the moment.

Rowdyjoe is correct that the most isolated way to avoid interference is the two battery set up, I dont think anyone will argue against that but as technology moves on there is other options out there. In the case of the seagull yak the airframe will handle the weight of a gasser and two batterys no problem, thats how I fly my yak.

 I am not selling this product to anyone and personally 30cc and up models were weight is not so much of a issue there is no reason not to have two seperate batterys.

But having said that with the syysa battery eliminator and a 30cc model I would prob run two batterys through two switches both to seperate rx ports then run the ignition of the rx via the syysa battery eliminator giving me full rx redundancy, full optical ignition isolation and a ignition kill with only two batterys on board instead of three.

There is people who would run a 30cc with one a123 battery and the eliminator and people who would only fly with three batterys, the end of the day it depends on how much redundancy and failsafe you want.

Nobody is wrong, its a personal choice.


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RE: Seagull Yak? - 12/9/2011 5:23 AM   
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Status: offline 		I appologize if I appear to have been trying to prove anyone wrong or right.  My intent was to educate concerning the electronic components we use in our planes.  I learned what little I know from forums just like this one (and trial and error) and I try to pass on the "intel" whenever I get a chance.  
When I make a decision on how to power my birds and what to use, I like to have all the relevant info so I can make an informed decision ...not because "Joe" at the field said it was good, bad, etc.  I've found that some of the "Joes" in the world don't know what they're talking about.

A BEC with "filtering" is still a BEC.  You can put lipstick, ear rings, and high heels on a pig but, it's still a pig.   
However, when used alone, in a situation other than electric powered planes, I think they should be called what they are ....Voltage Matching Circuit or Voltage Regulator Circuit ...or how about "Receiver/Ignition Over-voltage Protection Circuit".

RJ




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RE: Seagull Yak? - 12/9/2011 5:27 PM   
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Status: offline 		I use a single "Ignition Battery Eliminator" (IBE) on my Funtana and 50 cc yak; both are gas powered. I have approximately 60 plus flights on the Funtana and over 280 on the Yak. The Funtana is powered by a single Life 6.6 Volt 2100 Mah battery, which is easily good for 5 to 7 flights dependant on the Mah used per flight. The Funtana has consistantly used around 200 Mah per 10 minute flight, while the Yak uses 310 to 360 Mah per flight. The Yak has two of the same batteries described above and they feed the receiver through a Smart Fly regulator, which has battery share technology and failsafe capacity. "Battery share" means it continually draws from the battery with the higher existing voltage; in otherwords it it pulls from both, one at a time as they both draw down. The failsafe capacity, means it will disregard a battery that has failed and draw from the remaining battery.

The batteries have a deans connector and 18 gage wire, which is good for at least 8 amps; way more than either plane require. On the Funtana, the 18 gage wire has two pigtails with Futaba type leads entering the receiver, to ensure the amps are available at the receiver. The Yak is similar, but contains an additional pigtail that feeds directly to the rudder.

I have known 3d flyers who fly 50cc planes with only one receiver battery, to keep the weight down. But I like redundancy on a plane that large and dangerous (if control is not maintained). On the other had 20 or 30 cc planes are likely fine with a single battery and IBC, if properly set up.

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RE: Seagull Yak? - 12/9/2011 7:09 PM   
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Status: offline 		OK, I see my problem now.  The term "Ignition Battery Eliminator" (IBE) is confusing.  That piece of equipment doesn't eliminate the ignition battery and it doesn't eliminate the reciever battery either. 
What it does do is "regulate" the voltage to each piece of equipment whether the voltage supply is one  two, or five batteries (there's probably an input voltage limit though).

I use a Smart Fly Sport regulator in my 50cc size bird and power is supplied by two A123 2300 mah 6.6 volt batteries.  This regulator works just as well with one battery but, it drains a single battery faster because it has to power the receiver and ignition.  I also like the redundancy.  I don't know anyone who is flying "giant" scale with less than two batteries to help protect their investment.  

I wish we could all get on the same page with terminology.  If the mfgs would cooperate we would all benefit. 

By the way ....LIPO packs (2 cell) are much cheaper and lighter than A123's.  I bought two 2-cell 2100mah packs from HK for about $30 shipped (USA warehouse).  The switching UBECs (voltage regulators) from Hobby Partz were less than $15 each and they are voltage selectable (5 volts or 6 volts).
I run two of these LIPO packs through a Smart Fly Regulator in my Spacewalker II 120 (26cc gas) and plan to run the LIPO/UBEC combos in my Yak.  They work great and seem to last forever.

Merry Christmas to all ...

RJ



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RE: Seagull Yak? - 12/9/2011 10:14 PM   
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quote:

ORIGINAL: rowdyjoe

OK, I see my problem now.  The term "Ignition Battery Eliminator" (IBE) is confusing.  That piece of equipment doesn't eliminate the ignition battery and it doesn't eliminate the reciever battery either. 
What it does do is "regulate" the voltage to each piece of equipment whether the voltage supply is one  two, or five batteries (there's probably an input voltage limit though.

LOL rowdy I still not sure you have understood what this product does, yes it is a simple bec BUT instead of running it straight off a  battery it plugs into the rx for its feed, it does NOT regulate the power from the battery to the  rx but DOES regulates power from the rx to the ignition.

The feature that makes this different from a normal bec is that the feed it takes from the rx is fully optically isolated and the unit can be switched on and off by the rx to act as a ignition kill.

It is termed a battery eliminator as it allows for the ignition battery to be removed safely from the plane and still run a fully optically isolated ignition from the rx.

Rowdy you have more experience than me and have clearly been flying longer so please dont think im trying to outsmart anyone, only trying to make clear the features that make this different from a normal bec, if I missread your understanding  I apologise.

All the features of this unit are explained on the tech aero or syysa website.

Anyway back to seagull yak talk lol. 





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RE: Seagull Yak? - 12/9/2011 10:41 PM   
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ORIGINAL: rowdyjoe

Yes.  Now, please tell me what the ''U'' in UBEC means.
BEC = Battery Eliminator Circuit
UBEC = U??? Battery Eliminator Circuit

RJ



Seems like I remember the U = Universal

Could be wrong...

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RE: Seagull Yak? - 12/9/2011 10:46 PM   
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quote:

ORIGINAL: raydar


quote:

ORIGINAL: rowdyjoe

OK, I see my problem now.  The term "Ignition Battery Eliminator" (IBE) is confusing.  That piece of equipment doesn't eliminate the ignition battery and it doesn't eliminate the reciever battery either. 
What it does do is "regulate" the voltage to each piece of equipment whether the voltage supply is one  two, or five batteries (there's probably an input voltage limit though.

LOL rowdy I still not sure you have understood what this product does, yes it is a simple bec BUT instead of running it straight off a  battery it plugs into the rx for its feed, it does NOT regulate the power from the battery to the  rx but DOES regulates power from the rx to the ignition.

The feature that makes this different from a normal bec is that the feed it takes from the rx is fully optically isolated and the unit can be switched on and off by the rx to act as a ignition kill.

It is termed a battery eliminator as it allows for the ignition battery to be removed safely from the plane and still run a fully optically isolated ignition from the rx.

Rowdy you have more experience than me and have clearly been flying longer so please dont think im trying to outsmart anyone, only trying to make clear the features that make this different from a normal bec, if I missread your understanding  I apologise.

All the features of this unit are explained on the tech aero or syysa website.

Anyway back to seagull yak talk lol. 



Wow, I'm really confused now.  If this device doesn't regulate power to the receiver, what does?  Additionally, I can understand the need for an isolation/filtering circuit between the ignition and receiver but, a voltage "regulator" should not be necessary.  The voltage output of the receiver is 6 volts max (as is the input) and the ignition requires (usually) 6 volts or less to operate.  So what needs to be regulated if not the receiver?

No offense intended or taken. 

RJ



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RE: Seagull Yak? - 12/9/2011 10:57 PM   
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Status: offline 		Nothing regulates the rx, it gets the full life/a123 power which is 6.6volt, most rx and servos can handle this.

The ignition feed is regulated because alot of ignitions cannot run above 6 volt, this voltage is selectable with this unit, you can run 4.8, 5.0, cant remember and 6 volt lol.

I will point out that I do not use life/a123 batterys yet and only use the ubec to run the ignition off the rx supplied by 6 volt nimhs, so although im sure what I posted above is correct it would be nice for someone else to confirm.

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RE: Seagull Yak? - 12/9/2011 11:12 PM   
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ORIGINAL: raydar

Nothing regulates the rx, it gets the full life/a123 power which is 6.6volt, most rx and servos can handle this.

The ignition feed is regulated because alot of ignitions cannot run above 6 volt, this voltage is selectable with this unit, you can run 4.8, 5.0, cant remember and 6 volt lol.

I will point out that I do not use life/a123 batterys yet and only use the ubec to run the ignition off the rx supplied by 6 volt nimhs, so although im sure what I posted above is correct it would be nice for someone else to confirm.



I don't think I like the idea of unregulated voltage going to my receiver.  If it fails, so does the airplane.  I'll skip that piece of gear and go with regulated voltage to everything.  
Thanks for the explanation.

BTW ..."receiver" packs are also available in LIFE format ...6.6 volts.  I use one in my Escapade .61 but, there is also a switching BEC between the battery and receiver.

RJ




< Message edited by rowdyjoe -- 12/9/2011 11:48 PM >


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RE: Seagull Yak? - 12/9/2011 11:21 PM   
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Status: offline 		Thats cool totally understand, just happy that there is clarity on how this unit is different from a normal bec.




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RE: Seagull Yak? - 12/10/2011 9:53 PM   
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Status: offline 		If you go with a Life "receiver" pack, it is only supplied with a Futaba type lead, which may not be sufficient if it is powering both the Receiver with digital servos and the ignition. They also cary packs that have a Deans connector, which is rated at 10 C or 10 Amps; more than enough for any load spikes.

Rowdie, As noted, I have the same SmartFly set up on my 50cc and have found its redundancy to be bullet proof.

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RE: Seagull Yak? - 12/10/2011 10:56 PM   
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ORIGINAL: rowdyjoe




I don't think I like the idea of unregulated voltage going to my receiver.  If it fails, so does the airplane.  I'll skip that piece of gear and go with regulated voltage to everything.  
Thanks for the explanation.

BTW ...''receiver'' packs are also available in LIFE format ...6.6 volts.  I use one in my Escapade .61 but, there is also a switching BEC between the battery and receiver.

RJ





Hi RJ,

My receivers are only rated to 6 volts soI used a single UBEC (rated to 8 amps) to regulate both my receiver and ignition.

Works great,

Clay


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RE: Seagull Yak? - 12/10/2011 11:59 PM   
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ORIGINAL: Slow and Steady

If you go with a Life "receiver" pack, it is only supplied with a Futaba type lead, which may not be sufficient if it is powering both the Receiver with digital servos and the ignition. They also cary packs that have a Deans connector, which is rated at 10 C or 10 Amps; more than enough for any load spikes.

Rowdie, As noted, I have the same SmartFly set up on my 50cc and have found its redundancy to be bullet proof.



I agree.  That's why I run 2 battery systems in my most of my gas planes. 

The power lead for my ignitions have all come with a Futaba style female connector so, it will fit all common servo connectors.  The receiver pack I have came wired with a servo style connector with just the power leads connected.  Works great for either receiver or ignition.  I think it's an 1800mah LIFE and the brand is Zippy.  I found it new on Ebay for an excellent price.  Unfortunately, there was only one available. 
I'm currently using the LIFE receiver pack to power the receiver in my glow engined Escapade .61 so, only one battery is needed.
The LIPO receiver packs I'm using also come with servo style connectors and are 6C to 10C ...plenty of juice for either ignition or receiver.  Of course, the voltage regulator goes in-line with the battery.

Yep, the Smart Fly stuff is good but, a bit on the pricey side.  I'm experiencing some interference with the right aileron servo on my 50cc bird.  It twitches when I change throttle settings.  This a new problem and I haven't found the cause yet.  I've added a toroid to the aileron lead but, haven't had a chance to fire it up to see if it has helped the problem.  I must have a "leak" somewhere in the ignition system but, it's not obvious.  Looks like I'll have to get the old magnifying glass out and inspect all of the leads. 
I could probably eliminate the problem by bypassing the Smart fly and going straight to either the receiver or ignition but, I'd rather use it as configured.  Besides, if the ignition is shorting somewhere I'd like to find it and fix it before it damages something. 

Merry Christmas,
RJ




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RE: Seagull Yak? - 12/11/2011 12:17 AM   
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Status: offline 		Good call Clay.  That's the way I power all of my gas birds but, I use two separate systems like that.  One for the receiver and one for the ignition.  
I know some guys who run 4 batterys ...two on each piece of equipment.  They use a "Y" harness to connect them in parallel.  If one battery goes, the other picks up the load and will get the plane down safely.  It's not as expensive as it sounds because they use 2 smallish batteries.  e.g. two 1100mah 2 cell LIPOs to make a total of 2200mah on each circuit but, still get 7.4 volts into the regulator/UBEC.  Not a bad idea and it doesn't add weight because the two smaller batteries will be equal to (or less) than one 2200mah 2 cell.

RJ
 



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RE: Seagull Yak? - 12/13/2011 1:59 AM   
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Status: offline 		Smart Fly makes a thing called a Batt Share (it is not a regulator), which allows for two batteries and will isolate the bad battery from the good. A Y harness doesn't provide the isolation. Don't know how important this is, but it seams as though it should be of some concern. Also, using two small Mah batteries can be a problem if one of them goes bad on the first flight and is not detected. This may result in the other battery being overextended and unexpectidly going dead during a later flight. Just something to think about.

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RE: Seagull Yak? - 12/13/2011 2:13 AM   
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ORIGINAL: Slow and Steady

Smart Fly makes a thing called a Batt Share (it is not a regulator), which allows for two batteries and will isolate the bad battery from the good. A Y harness doesn't provide the isolation. Don't know how important this is, but it seams as though it should be of some concern. Also, using two small Mah batteries can be a problem if one of them goes bad on the first flight and is not detected. This may result in the other battery being overextended and unexpectidly going dead during a later flight. Just something to think about.


You're right but, I haven't found anything on the Smart Fly equip. I'm running that will indicate one of my batteries is dead either.  Seems there should be some sort of indicator.  It wouldn't be difficult to make an LED circuit that would light up when/if voltage drops below the minimum but, you'd think someone would have done it already and included it in that sort of equipment. 
Unless I check my batteries at the field after each flight, I have no way of knowing the condition of either battery.

RJ




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