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RE: Top Flite Cessna 310 posted - 8/23/2012 2:02 PM   
badazzgti03


 

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going to be jumping right back on this project again next week and complete it this time...almost been a year since i got it. Hopefully get this up in the air soon

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RE: Top Flite Cessna 310 posted - 8/23/2012 11:57 PM   
orion4455


 

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Dear Badazzgti03:

The Cessna 310 is the plane of my dreams, and I bought it as my FIRST plane! I love it!. Before doing anything with it, since I did not have the experience to fly it, I joined the local flying club (Ottumwa, IA) and had some great people help me check the plane for all mechanical and cosmetic problems. It turned out my plane was in excellent condition despite being about five or six years old.

Now, there are a few things I would recommend to improve the plane, and to prevent in-flight mechanical failures.

First, I replaced the wooden sticks or "beams"  used to support the servo boards, in the center of the plane, with BASSWOOD from SIG. I used pieces one-quarter inch thick, by three-eights wide, by nine inches long. I then measured one-half inch from each end, made a line across the width of the wood, and then carefully cut the wood so it was only one-eight inch thick for each one-half inch of the ends of the beams. This allowed me to "countersink" the wooden beams against the wood mounting rails of the plane that are already glued into the fuselage, running length-wise of the plane. You now have the options of gluing the beams to the fuselage, or using screws to hold the beams in place, or gluing the beams followed by putting a small wood screw in each end, as well. These "beams" are super strong for mounting the servo and battery boards, and work great!

Next, I replaced the flimsy, thin servo and battery mounting "boards" with SIG 5-ply, plywood, one-eight inch thick, and copying the width and length from the original board(s) sizes. These boards are much stronger, flex less, and serve as "insurance" against in-flight failure. I mounted them with socket head cap screws (4-40 x 1/4" long) with washers. The mounting "beams" and "boards" are now super strong, and you won't worry about servo and rod failures, or having the glue dry out, followed by the entire "works" coming undone during stress times when flying. BTW, I find RTL Fasteners (www.rtlfasteners.com), Chesapeake, VA to be an excellent source of screws, nuts, bolts, etc.. Great people, great prices, and great products,,great shipping time, and they DON'T SCREW YOU on the shipping charges!!!

Next, make sure you paint the FLAPS interior compartments. They are directly behind the engines, and bare wood only invites problems later on. The "mechanicals" for the flaps are very goodstrong, cleanly mounted, accessable.

Next, I was profoundly "BORED" with an ENTIRELY BLACK INTERIOR, SO.....you put the wife to work. Women naturally have a better "eye" for paint schemes, decorations, etc.. It's fun to make your plane really FUN for air shows, static displays at malls, etc.. I painted my pilot, have flight case and maps next to him, have a "mini-QUILT" on the rear seat, and I have A CESSNA 310 INSIGNIA, carved from wood and covered in gold cloth, on the back interior wall. The interior is really nice, (pictures to follow in near future), and I made sure other people could participate in the building process so they would have fun, would feel part of the "team" effort, and would be able to "BRAG" about building my plane. When you get the "girls" involved, your PR factor for your club sky-rockets! And, suddenly, the food at static displays and field shows becomes much better! (Ha!).

Finally, I knew every 310 was painted the same. I really like the color "blue," but wanted a unique paint scheme. I hired Sue Hopper, (Signs and Wonders, LLC; phone: (319)-750-0814; email: signsandwonders@hotmail.com) because the exterior and interior MUST be the best possible. Sue travels the country (USA) and paints trucks, motorcycles (lots of work at Sturgis), boats, cars, about anything you want, and she does SUPER GREAT WORK!! Her prices are really good, and she did a superb job on the plane (pictures to follow). My Cessna was her first plane, and she loved doing the work. In turn, I recommend her highly for any painting work.

Now, the only thing left is to have DownandLocked.com help me get my landing gear doors in sequence.

In closing, I wish to thank Harold Zimmerman, Council Bluffs, IA for selling me a great plane with no problems. He did a great job of having his plane built exactly to plans, and he "loaded it" with mechanicalsrobarts, downandlocked, futaba servos, 14 channel RX, Meash wheels, and two OS .46ax motors. When I bought the plane, it was in excellent condition. Again, I thank Harold for a great way for me to enter flying, despite, as a novice, me having the proverbial "cart before the horse." Now, I just have to learn how to fly! And, I must offer great thanks and appreciation to Don Wasson, of Ottumwa Radio Controlled Flying Club (ORFC). Don introduced me to the club, will serve as my instructor, and has been just great about helping with "a million questions" while I work on my plane. Also, thanks to Dave Rabe, Jerry, Bob, Larry, and the rest of the guys at the club. And, I would be remiss if I did not also say "thank you" to all the guys at the Iowa Aerohawks Flying Club in Iowa City, IA. They are also a great bunch of guys to know. If you want to see some great planes, look at: rchawks.com, and iowacityaerohawks.com.

Thank you for the time. I hope my ideas help you. Orion4455. Bob G, Fairfield, IA




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RE: Top Flite Cessna 310 posted - 8/24/2012 5:04 PM   
badazzgti03


 

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Orion,

thanks for the idea's man but I already took care of a lot of the problems especially the wing issue...I did the carbon tube mod.

I haven't really thought about the interior....I probably will change it around..My father use to own a real 1958 Cessna 310 like "song bird" back in that old TV show.

I painted my 310 Matte black and going to add a light blue pearl effect stripping that changes colors in different views of light. almost going to have a "Tron" kinda look to it.
I also have a lot of electronics and equipment going into this thing too.

I'm hoping to have it in the air by the end of the year.



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RE: Top Flite Cessna 310 posted - 8/24/2012 5:05 PM   
badazzgti03


 

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I'm going to stick with the standard air retracts with this model

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RE: Top Flite Cessna 310 posted - 8/24/2012 5:40 PM   
Chuchuf


 

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Guys, for what it's worth I worked with TF designers on the wing problem (although I'd doubt they will admit there was a problem) that was showing up where the skin would crack back by he flap area.
The problem was being caused by the wood that was being used in the rear spar sheer webs.
The solution was to epoxy carefully cut pieces of 1/8" ply just in back of the flaps from the root of the wing out to just past the flaps. If I remember correctly you have to lift the covering that extends from the wing bottom into that area first, glue in the ply and then you can iron the covering back down.
I tested this fix pretty hard on a "test bed" TF310 we had doing what I would describe as carrier landings and the wings never showed any signs of cracking the skin again.




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RE: Top Flite Cessna 310 posted - 9/18/2012 1:35 PM   
rgaynor


 

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I am starting to build my 310 (I know - Johnny come lately) and did my time by reading all 144 pages. My only concern as I start to build is the weakness in the trailing edge of the wing causing it to crack on hard landings. A friend of mine suggested inserting wood webbing (in the areas highlighted below with an "X") which should strengthen the wing. I decided to use 2 layers of 1.5 oz fiberglass. I read where some builders fiberglassed the bottom of the wing or where they pulled the sheeting back and inserting webbing from the inside of the flap area. I am at the beginning point of this build where I could also do those things to add additional strength, but would prefer not to if not needed.

I would greatly appreciate feedback from any builder.

On another note, I making the plane 100% electric and plan to use Lado retracts and servos to operate inner gear doors and nose gear doors.

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RE: Top Flite Cessna 310 posted - 9/18/2012 6:19 PM   
orion4455


 

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dear rgaynor:

I would consult with Top Flight, some r/c flight clubs, and other builders before adding webbing, etc..

I bought my plane, already built, got excited, and then "foamed" the insides of the wings. foaming the wings was easy, and it added considerable strength. the foaming has also proved very good for several cessna owners who report 50 or more landings with no wing cracking problems. in retrospect, i wonder if it would work as well if the foaming was from the inside edge of the wing (edge next to fuselage) out to the engine compartments, instead of out almost to the ends of the wings.

other builders have used fiberglass rods inside the wings, from the center of the two wing halves out to the engine  compartments. this may be a "cleaner" approach to gain strength, but i have no knowledge about how it helps or hinder strength to the wings.

i have also daydreamed aboiut putting a "bungy" type cord in the wings, stretching from one engine compartment to the other, inside the wing, with a release buckle to ease the tension when not using the plane. i thought maybe the bungy cord would function like a "cross-bow" cord, with the tension keeping the wings level when landing, but allowing for minimal flex when landing. just saying........

I really think several ways can be used, independently or together, to strengthen the wings. remember, the stress is really on the area from the fuselage out to the engine compartment. that's where the "flex" and breaking areas occur. And, I DEFINITELY would use one way or another to add strength. THE WING'S  STRUCTURES ARE TOO WEAK RIGHT OUT OF THE BOX!! also, im not sure how much weight is added by fiberglassing the undersides of the wings. the foam is very light, yet strong.

Give TopFlight a call, talk to some more builders, and then make your choice. You will be fine, regardless of choice. Oh yes! Not to sound "bossy," but make sure to balance your plane after the strength additionsbalance front to back, AND  side to side, so you are not overweighted in any area.

i hope this helps somewhat. Good luck and remember to ENJOY the building process while you are doing it. Orion4455




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RE: Top Flite Cessna 310 posted - 9/18/2012 6:50 PM   
rgaynor


 

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Thanks Orion4455 for your feedback. I will continue to research and will call TF for any updates. Regarding balancing, I have build many scratch and kit planes and ALWAYS make sure that I am balanced 360. Much appreciated again.
Ron

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RE: Top Flite Cessna 310 posted - 9/19/2012 3:19 PM   
orion4455


 

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dear rgaynor:

A quick note. In the 144 pages of descriptions for the cessna 310 building is a guy who did his plane totally electric. he did a super job, and supplied pictures. i forget his name, but it would be easy to find him in the entries. i also remember that after going electric he thought about switching to gas because of batteries/chargers etc problems or expense. try to contact him about the electric. he might be very helpful. hope this helps...orion4455.


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RE: Top Flite Cessna 310 posted - 9/19/2012 3:27 PM   
orion4455


 

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dear rgaynor: i went through my notes. here is one guy who went all electric and did a great job. it should give you some ideas. See:  rcgroups.com, topflight cessna 310 conversion, bruff, post numbers 1, 5, etc.. this guy did some great electrical work with a 310. awesome! best, orion4455.


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RE: Top Flite Cessna 310 posted - 9/19/2012 3:42 PM   
orion4455


 

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dear rgaynor:

i checked my notes etc and found: David Pinegar, screenalias: teamscalepilot; in the rcuniverse.com. he built a 310 with electric. contact him for some good ideas. he does great work, as the pictures show. good luck. orion4455.


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RE: Top Flite Cessna 310 posted - 9/19/2012 4:55 PM   
rgaynor


 

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Thanks so much Orion4455. I have read through the post of planes that we converted to electric. There are new and improved outrunner motors out now (not available when they converted) that provide great power. Specifically Torque 4016 - 500KV on 6S will put our more watts and thrust than the e-flite Power 46 or Scorpion motors used by some. Having converted several 1/5 scale planes (single and twin engine), I am just now starting to get the hang on what power supply works well with this size plane. I will post pictures of the build once I get started.

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RE: Top Flite Cessna 310 posted - 10/10/2012 3:54 PM   
Fidelity101


 

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I just got off the phone with a guy name Chris from Hobby Services. I have an older Cessna 310, which was purchased from a guy on rcuniverse a year or two ago. Now that I've gotten around to building it, I'm wondering if the wing issue is still a problem given the unknown age of my ARF. After my discussion with Chris, who didn't seem to know, care, or even try to answer my question, I'm hoping that someone on this forum will be able to help me figure out if my ARF will have an issue or not.

I did read something earlier in this thread about a single stab. My wings are held together by a single nylon screw holding the halves together with a large diameter tube in the front of the wing and a smaller diameter tube in the rear. Both tubes are pretty short but the wings seems fairly solid when assembled. I am going with twin OS 55AX engines, turning 12x6 APC props. I've also upgraded the retracts to Down-n-locked electrics, which work VERY well on the bench. :-)

Again, any help on the age identification or wing issue/when it was resolved and how it was resolved would be of great help and relieve as I fly on a very bumpy grass field.

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RE: Top Flite Cessna 310 posted - 10/10/2012 4:46 PM   
Chuchuf


 

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I don't know how you would check to see if the problem exists on the wings you have but I would assume so as the fix is really pretty easy.

The solution is to epoxy some 1/8" ply in the area of the flaps the entire distance of the flaps. These 4 or 5 pieces should be fit carefully after you remove the plastic wheel well in that area and span top to bottom. Essentially you are replacing the sheer web with a scabbed on sheer web that extends from the top reap spar to the bottom rear spar.
I have tested this fix extensively landing a 310 numerous times as if I were landing on an air craft carrier and to this date we have not seen any signs of cracking. In fact one of the landings was so hard dropping it from a few feet that I bent the landing gear.

Hope this helps

Terry


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RE: Top Flite Cessna 310 posted - 10/10/2012 8:34 PM   
orion4455


 

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Hello Fidelity One:
I just read Chuchuf's reply. He is on one of the right solutions. When I examined my plane carefully, while preparing it for some improvements, I found some small horizontal cracks in the Flaps compartments. Chuchuf has a good idea. I had "foamed" the inside of my wings, another solution for wing strength, and had considered using 5-ply plywood pieces, from SIG, to glue into the flaps compartments, between the ribs. I have since decided to forego the plywood since i already had the foam for strength, but each way should work.
One other idea; I did alot of reading after purchasing my plane and found that OS .46ax's for engines were really good for the 310. the OS .55's should work as well.
It appears you are on the correct path in building your plane. best regards, orion4455.
PS: please post any info you get regarding age versus wing/wood strength for your plane. id really like to know about it. i was also wondering if topflite would have some direction here. thank you.


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RE: Top Flite Cessna 310 posted - 10/10/2012 9:25 PM   
rgaynor


 

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I inserted the plywood between the ribs inside the flap compartment - easy to do and once painted, you don't see it.

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RE: Top Flite Cessna 310 posted - 10/10/2012 11:39 PM   
Chuchuf


 

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The plywood is Top Flights solution.

Terry


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RE: Top Flite Cessna 310 posted - 10/11/2012 12:16 AM   
handyman_alw_



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as one of the first to recieve the 310 on the first run and by the way i will add that it is still flying as soon as i heard about the weakness in the wing i got together with a friend and master builder and we came up with the idea of foaming the entire wing. It did not add much weight but trippled the strentgh of the wing. it does not take much effort or time you cut a few holes in the underside of the wing spray the foam in and wait for it to expand and cut off the foam that comes through the hole sand it and pacth the covering and as i said after many flights it is still flying with no problems. the fixes that have been talked about all will do the job in the areas talked about but only foaming strentghens the whole wing.you just have to make up your mind which one to use and then move forward. I will say that of all the choices out there i would still go with foaming the wing but that is only one person's opinon. happy flying and remember to to check the gear before landing.



Allen

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RE: Top Flite Cessna 310 posted - 10/11/2012 12:22 AM   
boingram


 

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...after five flights, my wing folded like a house of cards....purchased new one...stripped covering on bottom of wing between both nacelles...glued wing together...ran three strips of carbon biber longintudinal carbon fiber length wise on bottom, then glassed the section between the nacelles....blew a couple of coats of white....could probably stand on it and didn't add much weight....not pretty, but who sees the bottom....bo

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RE: Top Flite Cessna 310 posted - 10/11/2012 12:28 AM   
handyman_alw_



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hey Bo,

are you still using the orignal engines in yours? I took out the 55"ss and put e-flite 46's in mine and it is a monster now.

Allen


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RE: Top Flite Cessna 310 posted - 10/11/2012 3:00 AM   
orion4455


 

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Hello Allen: hope the new home in Arkansas is nice, and the move wasn't too bad. Orion4455, fairfield, ia.


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RE: Top Flite Cessna 310 posted - 10/11/2012 12:27 PM   
boingram


 

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Allen...yep...stil have the 46ax's in it....once it gets up a head of steam, it flies fast and smooth, but definitely flies on the wing and not the props. I am thinking about electrifying a Pica Duelists I have framed, and might eventually electrify the 310...I have been modelling for over 40-years and wish electrics had been viable a lot sooner.

Where did you place your battereies...did you use two escs, etc. How about some more info on how you did it on the 310...can you point me to a build thread...thanks,

Bo

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RE: Top Flite Cessna 310 posted - 10/11/2012 1:34 PM   
pacoflyer


 

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Gentlemen,
This all sounds suspiciously similar to the problem Top Flite had a few years back with their giant scale P-51 ARF. Under the compressive loads exerted on the wing during landing and at high speed maneuvers the wing spar were failing. It turns out that the Chinese ladies that were building these beauties were installing the sheer webbing into the wing with the grain going the wrong way. You'd think that Top Flite would have paid more attention to the construction of their ARFs they brought to market after that...


Just my 2 cents,
paul

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RE: Top Flite Cessna 310 posted - 10/11/2012 1:56 PM   
Chuchuf


 

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I questioned them on the grain of the sheer web on the rear spar of the 310 running with the spar and the designer of the plane told me that it was correct that way.
Every model I have ever built in the past, the grain of the sheer web was 90 deg to the spar. But what do I know.......
 
Terry


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RE: Top Flite Cessna 310 posted - 10/11/2012 2:00 PM   
pacoflyer


 

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And so it should be.
We pulled apart a failed wing on the Top Flite giant scale P-51 a couple of summers ago and the grain in the sheer webbing was running longitudinally down the wing...

paul

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