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All Forums >> Radios, Batteries, Clubhouse and more >> Batteries & Chargers >> A123Racing Support >> A123 packs data, continuous power, volts, amps, all the good stuff...
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A123 packs data, continuous power, volts, amps, all the... - 11/24/2006 4:20:18 AM   
zeropointbug


 

Posts: 7
Joined: 11/22/2006
From: tisdale, SK, CANADA
Status: offline 		Hi everybody, i thought i would make a practical 'somewhat' real world performance data about the M1 cell, and M1 packs.

So for starters, the M1 cell; a great leap in battery chemistry technology, especially in power, safety (VERY important for full scale electric vehicles), and cycle life goes, also low temperature performance is very good for Lithium technology. !The numbers posted here are not known to be 100% accurate! If Brian could confirm these specs, i am limited in what tests i can do.

M1 cell: 108 watts (17C, 40 amps) @ ~2.68 volts

2s1p pack: 216 watts (40 amps) @ ~5.38 volts 2s2p pack: 432 watts (80 amps) @ ~5.38 volts - 40 amps @ 6.0 volts, 240 watts

3s1p pack: 324 watts (40 amps) @ ~8.1 volts 3s2p pack: 650 watts (80 amps) @ ~8.1 volts - 40 amps @ 9.0 volts, 360 watts

4s1p pack: 432 watts (40 amps) @ ~10.8 volts 4s2p pack: 864 watts (80 amps) @ ~10.8 volts - 40 amps @ 12 volts, 480 watts

5s1p pack: 540 watts (40 amps) @ ~13.4 volts 5s2p pack: 1080 watts (80 amps) @ ~13.4 volts - 40 amps @ 15 volts, 600 watts

6s1p pack: 650 watts (40 amps) @ ~16.1 volts 6s2p pack: 1300 watts (80 amps) @ ~16.1 volts - 40 amps @ 18 volts, 720 watts


Mind you that these are continuous power discharges ppl, not really what your RC car will be running, more up and down. However, you would have higher spikes and pauses throughout the cycle. Voltage droop of cells is of the prime concern in RC application, an area where battery manufactures are always improving upon. These numbers are quite impressive CONSIDERING that A123 cells are brand new to the market, and are surely set to be improved upon, well hopefully. Overall these cells, in MY opinion are currently the superior technology out there; for good reasons: they are high power, fundamentally safe (no worries!), and wide temp performance, and of course cycle life/ durability.

There are a few companies, one Altair Nano, VERY impressive batteries.... just some ratings: same performance at -30 C as 25 C...... 15,000 cycles @ 10C charge/discharge and still at 80% charge retention.

Zeropointbug





< Message edited by zeropointbug -- 11/24/2006 7:00:36 PM >
       Post #: 1

RE: A123 packs data, continuous power, volts, amps, al... - 11/24/2006 1:33:05 PM   
everydayflyer



Posts: 854
Joined: 8/21/2005
From: Buchanan, GA, USA
Status: offline 		2.5V<Edit> 2.7 at 30A and 2.25 at 60Amps would be closer IMO.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5691298&postcount=1


The Data Log Graph here

http://image.rcuniverse.com/forum/upfiles/197187/Hf98087.gif

show cells dropping to 2.5 volts avg. under very short burst to 40A in an RC Truck.


Of course your numbers may be based on the Graphs here

http://www.a123systems.com/html/a123racing/rcdevkitspecs.pdf

Added:

I am not stating that the data presented by A123 is incorrect but it may not be typical of assembled packs used in typical RC applications.
Often manufactures test a single cell in a super heavy duty holder with very short super heavy duty leads.

When a battery is assembled you have multi cell(s) resistance,perhaps lighter gage longer length wiring,often multi connectors etc. All of these can result in less than Lab standard results.


For those who would like to read a Tech. type post on the resistence in a 4 cell pack from a DeWalt pack using the OEM buss bars.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6423041&postcount=18

More data:

Having tried different numbers in MotoCalc to obtain calculated and real in flight matches I have found that using 3.1Volts per cell and 0.009 inpendence works out fairly close.
If I plug numbers into Motor Cal using a 4S1P A123 packs with a very efficient ESC and load the motor to 38A the calculated voltage to the motor is 10.8 volts(2.7 per cell).

The fifth attachment here

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6164784&postcount=1

shows three sudstained runs of a 3S pack. Note that at the 24-26A range volts drops to 2.73 per cell.
All of this goes to show that it is extremely difficult to obtain real worls numbers which match lad test or even adjusted projected calculations.


< Message edited by everydayflyer -- 11/24/2006 6:29:53 PM >

(in reply to zeropointbug)
       Post #: 2

RE: A123 packs data, continuous power, volts, amps, al... - 11/24/2006 7:01:06 PM   
zeropointbug


 

Posts: 7
Joined: 11/22/2006
From: tisdale, SK, CANADA
Status: offline 		THanks for the update EveryDayFlyer

Zero

(in reply to everydayflyer)
       Post #: 3

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