RE: GAS Saito    Gallery
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as Guest



Users viewing this topic: none
    Search This Thread  
 
Printable Version

All Forums >> Glow Engines, Gas Engines, Fuel & Mfg Support Forums >> Gas Engines >> RE: GAS Saito
Page: <<   < prev  44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 [52] 53   next >   >>  

Tower Hobbies Get Coupon Codes Brands  
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: GAS Saito - 11/8/2012 1:22 AM   
Sharpeye22



Posts: 278
Score: 120
Joined: 5/9/2007
Last Login: 5/19/2013
From: Kirbyville, TX, USA
Status: offline 		 I see that Horizon has come out with a FG30B.  From what I can see it has a different ignition.  It appears to be a RCEXL.  Does anyone know if the new Satio ignition is a direct replacement for the old one.  I ask because I have the old FG30 and it has the same problem many do.  It miss fires randomly. 


_____________________________

Larry
Saito Club #692

Hide Signatures

(in reply to Richard L.)
       Post #: 1276

RE: GAS Saito - 11/8/2012 3:12 AM   
w8ye



Posts: 36436
Score: 318
Joined: 12/11/2001
Last Login: 5/20/2013
From: Shelby, OH, USA
Status: offline 		The timing is different between the two ignition systems. The original Saito ignition, with the big round pick-up sensor, was timed at Top Dead Center.

The new ignition is timed at 28 degrees before top dead center.

The Prototypes I saw had the new ignition mounted in the same place on the center casting seam as the old style engines but they had re-drilled the front hub for the locating pin to make the timing at 28 degrees.

The guy that owns CH ignitions has some brackets that will move the sensor over to the 28 degree point so you do not have to drill and tap a new hole in the hub.  I used one of these on my FG-36 to change the ignition over.  

Mad Max at RC Extreme flight has a long sensor bracket for his RCEXL ignitions to move the timing over to 28 degrees.

It is cheaper to buy a new ignition from other than Saito.

CM-6 spark plugs are available at the Auto parts. I bought mine at both Advance and O Reiley's.

This is the proto type engine I was holding and looking at. Notice where they re-drilled the hub to make the timing for the RCEXL type ignition sensor be timed at 28 degrees?


Notice in this next pictue at the bottom right corner of the Saito ignition box where it says "Made by RCEXL"




Attachments
Click to see fullsize image.
Click for fullsize 		Click to see fullsize image.
Click for fullsize


< Message edited by w8ye -- 11/16/2012 5:35 AM >

_____________________________

Attended the CutFinger Institute of DirtNap University for years but never did graduate....
Recipient, Mangledhand award August 2008
Club Saito Member #7
Original AMA #31261

Hide Signatures

(in reply to Sharpeye22)
       Post #: 1277

RE: GAS Saito - 11/8/2012 3:57 PM   
Sharpeye22



Posts: 278
Score: 120
Joined: 5/9/2007
Last Login: 5/19/2013
From: Kirbyville, TX, USA
Status: offline 		Great thanks for the info.  One more question.  In your openion which is better CH or RCEXL ignitions? or are they the same?


_____________________________

Larry
Saito Club #692

Hide Signatures

(in reply to w8ye)
       Post #: 1278

RE: GAS Saito - 11/8/2012 5:04 PM   
w8ye



Posts: 36436
Score: 318
Joined: 12/11/2001
Last Login: 5/20/2013
From: Shelby, OH, USA
Status: offline 		The CH and RCEXL are a lot alike and will interchange on a engine. The sensors are actually the same type. The old original CH had a Deans connector on the sensor. The RCEXL has a RC radio connector on it.

I think the CH is made better but either one will serve your purpose fine.

The RCEXL is more or less a copy of the CH.

The new Saito ignition is a RCEXL that is rebadged to say Saito but it is cheaper to just buy a RCEXL.

There are Some CH ignitions out there that are actually RCEXL ignitions. You can tell by how they are made.

It doesn't really matter.


_____________________________

Attended the CutFinger Institute of DirtNap University for years but never did graduate....
Recipient, Mangledhand award August 2008
Club Saito Member #7
Original AMA #31261

Hide Signatures

(in reply to Sharpeye22)
       Post #: 1279

RE: GAS Saito - 12/25/2012 3:58 PM   
akouzmit



Posts: 103
Score: 100
Joined: 7/2/2007
Last Login: 5/8/2013
From: Toronto, ON, CANADA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: akouzmit

I have a question regarding SAITO FG-36.

I run my new FG36 for 1.5+1.5=3hours.
Mostly idling, but also short bursts of high RPM at the second 1.5 hours.
In total ~36cc tank of 87gas + Evolution oil recommended for this engine=>1:17.
Prop: oar: 18x8.
At the end of te second 1.5 hour I tuned niddles and look like I got stable low RPM as 1830 and my high RPM reached 7500.

Q#1: I expected high RPM to be at 8500 point, but I wasn't able to get it with 18x8 prop and 87-gas.
What I can explore here in order to get higher RPM?

Q#2: After ~2 hours of braking in I can hear some strange noise (while engine is off) when manually rotating prop back and forward quickly.
Sound like a lost metal ball running inside crankcase.
The engine still opperate OK, but I am wondering about that sound.
You can only hear this sound when moving prop manually back and forward by ~45 - ~90 degree.

Anybody experiencing such sound on fg36 ?

Thank you for your input.

It is my first experience with 4 stroke engine.

I also have 2 stroke OS FG-33, wich is trouble free in every way!

Andrei K.


- 2nd post
Hi,
I am coming back with some new questions.
By this time I completed braking in for my SAITO FG-36 and set it up on 80" span RV-8.
I continue tuning engine on the ground with my plane strapped to the bench.
I have some experience with tuning O.S. FG-33 engine carb. and in comparison with O.S. the carb. for SAITO bechaive a bit differently.
My problems with SAITO carb tuning:
1) At the mid of the throttle stick the engine is unstable and occasionally died;
2) I am not able to reach 8500 RPM wit 91 octane gas and recommended Evolution oil (1:20); The highest RPM I am getting is close to 7000-7200 on the ground with 19x8 Xoar prop. or 7200-7400 with 18x8 Xoar prop.

At the same time I see at list a few positive things:
1) Extremely stable idle RPM !!! Engine can run at 1750-1800 RPM for hours w/o any intension to quit.
I am not toutching low RPM niddle any more, but playing ONLY with high RPM niddle.
2) Once I passed mid position of the throttle stick and went all way up to the highest RPM engine is running quite stable, but max RPM is close to 7000 instead of expected 8000-8500.

I need to resolve 2 issues:
1) Some how to tune carb in order to avoid mid stick engine hesitation.
2) Increase high RPM on the ground from ~7000 to 8000+.

Regarding the second issue I start thinking about changing ignition sensor position (advancing), but I am not sure if it is rigt thing to toutch manufacturing setup ... Please advice here.

Regarding first issue I dont want to touch low RPM niddle as engine is running so lovely at low RPM, but at the same time tuning high RPM niddle is not helping with the 1st issue . . . and 2nd issue eather. . .

Please, advice on SAITO FG-36 tuning.

Thank you,
Andrei K.



Hide Signatures

(in reply to akouzmit)
       Post #: 1280

RE: GAS Saito - 12/25/2012 4:41 PM   
w8ye



Posts: 36436
Score: 318
Joined: 12/11/2001
Last Login: 5/20/2013
From: Shelby, OH, USA
Status: offline 		The FG-36 engine rpms listed in the brochure are rather optimistic.
I doubt you will ever get rid of the stutter in a roll with the FG-36 as long as you use the original carb?
Eventually you will want to ditch the original Saito ignition and change to a RCEXL or CH ignition.



_____________________________

Attended the CutFinger Institute of DirtNap University for years but never did graduate....
Recipient, Mangledhand award August 2008
Club Saito Member #7
Original AMA #31261

Hide Signatures

(in reply to akouzmit)
       Post #: 1281

RE: GAS Saito - 12/27/2012 12:13 AM   
orthobird


 

Posts: 583
Score: 105
Joined: 12/2/2011
Last Login: 5/19/2013
From: shreveport, LA, USA
Status: offline 		 Hello
i have a saito fg 36 4 stroke
wanted to know if anyone knows if the sensor for the cdi is a hall type sensor?
i am referring to the bigger sensor.

_____________________________

avoid crashing!!

Hide Signatures

(in reply to w8ye)
       Post #: 1282

RE: GAS Saito - 12/27/2012 12:26 AM   
w8ye



Posts: 36436
Score: 318
Joined: 12/11/2001
Last Login: 5/20/2013
From: Shelby, OH, USA
Status: offline 		The big round sensor is inductive and not a Hall Effect Sensor


_____________________________

Attended the CutFinger Institute of DirtNap University for years but never did graduate....
Recipient, Mangledhand award August 2008
Club Saito Member #7
Original AMA #31261

Hide Signatures

(in reply to orthobird)
       Post #: 1283

RE: GAS Saito - 12/27/2012 12:37 AM   
orthobird


 

Posts: 583
Score: 105
Joined: 12/2/2011
Last Login: 5/19/2013
From: shreveport, LA, USA
Status: offline 		Ok, thank you, that answers that question for me.  thank you so much.
let me tell you my dilemma, maybe you can help me.
I have a saito fg 36
it is up on shelf.  i do not use it.
but i had bought a second sensor.  don't ask me why (LOL)

i just finished a 4 month process of putting together a 40% scale extra 330 s
she had maiden flight 2 days ago.

i am now interested in setting up telemetry for her.
in particular, i have a DA 170 twin, with EI.

i need a sensor to use on the prop hub area that will pick up the signal from the small magnet.  and the one from Spektrum (that i purchased) is inteneded to be installed on the rear aspect of the engine, to pick the crankshaft pin signal, it is a Hall effect sensor.

i was thinking, if i could use the saito sensor, then it would make things easier, but i do not believe this will work.


_____________________________

avoid crashing!!

Hide Signatures

(in reply to w8ye)
       Post #: 1284

RE: GAS Saito - 12/27/2012 2:44 AM   
w8ye



Posts: 36436
Score: 318
Joined: 12/11/2001
Last Login: 5/20/2013
From: Shelby, OH, USA
Status: offline 		The existing magnet will work a Hall effect sensor.


_____________________________

Attended the CutFinger Institute of DirtNap University for years but never did graduate....
Recipient, Mangledhand award August 2008
Club Saito Member #7
Original AMA #31261

Hide Signatures

(in reply to orthobird)
       Post #: 1285

RE: GAS Saito - 1/1/2013 1:32 AM   
orthobird


 

Posts: 583
Score: 105
Joined: 12/2/2011
Last Login: 5/19/2013
From: shreveport, LA, USA
Status: offline 		thank you w8ye, i have connected it and it is picking up a signal.  dont know how accurate it is, will let you know by this weekend.

Attachments
Click to see fullsize image.
Click for fullsize 		Click to see fullsize image.
Click for fullsize


_____________________________

avoid crashing!!

Hide Signatures

(in reply to w8ye)
       Post #: 1286

RE: GAS Saito - 1/24/2013 10:50 PM   
Gordon W



Posts: 542
Score: 105
Joined: 3/3/2004
Last Login: 5/20/2013
From: BrauntonDevon, UNITED KINGDOM
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: w8ye

Eventually you will want to ditch the original Saito ignition and change to a RCEXL or CH ignition.


What characteristics make the RCEXL and CH ingnition systems better than the Saito unit. Is the Saito one simply unreliable and short-lived, or is its electronic advance-retard response badly specified? Or is there another reason, like the Saito ignition's spark goes poor or something?

I've been messing with an ignition conversion of a Laser 240 V-twin glow engine with a couple of RCXELs one per cylinder, but the Laser gets horribly hot (that engine is reputed to run hotter than most similar-size glow engines when running glow but I didn't find out until after buying the engine) and I'm going to abandon the experiment. This leaves me with two RCXEL ignitions, and as I have two Saito FG-36's (the early ones, not the FG-36B), I could usefully employ the RCXELs on those engines if there was going to be a real benefit. I have the capability to make 28deg sensor mounts for the Saitos.

I have to admit that after running very reliably and smoothly for the first couple or three hours of use, one of my Saitos has developed a misfire, which some Saito petrol users have referred to as a burp, and adjusting the carb won't eradicate it. I'm wondering if there might be an ignition fault.

TIA for your opinion.

Gordon

Hide Signatures

(in reply to w8ye)
       Post #: 1287

RE: GAS Saito - 3/9/2013 5:02 AM   
akouzmit



Posts: 103
Score: 100
Joined: 7/2/2007
Last Login: 5/8/2013
From: Toronto, ON, CANADA
Status: offline 		Topic: SAITO FG-36; Carburator problem after 4 months storage.


Hi,
I am looking for advice with my SAITO FG-36 carburetor.
Last year engine run well over 2 hours in total and everything was OK although initially I found that priming during the very first start was a bit of issue until I applied pressure into fuel tank just to let fuel go through the fuel line to the carb.

After ~4 months of winter storage (last time I have run it out of fuel as recommended) I have found that I can't start engine with electric starter for over an hour . . .
Check out ignition and spark plug is working fine.
What I found is my electric starter is rotating FG-36 very easy and it is due to the missing priming . . .
Engine is not getting fuel AT ALL even when I am applying good pressure in the fuel tank.
I have added fuel directly to the carb air intake and then I can hear a few burbs.
It is telling me the spark plug and ignition is still OK (fresh charged battery for ignition used)

I disconnected fuel line from the fuel tank and tried to apply air pressure while rotating prop by hand (ignition is off).
What I found is NO AIR is coming through carburetor.
If air can’t go under good pressure then fuel will be also not able to go through the carb.

Next I removed part of the carb, which has connection to the fuel line.
I check out spring and membrane flexibility . . . everything looks OK.
All channels also looks clean and tiny filter is also looks absolutely clean.
I closed that part of the carb and opened another part of the carb where big size membrane is located with metal part at the center.
If I push this membrane a bit down and applying air pressure through fuel line leading to the carb I can see that big membrane is pushed a bit by the air pressure I am applying through fuel line tube.
Look to me the fuel channel from the fuel intake on the carb to the big membrane is clean.

Now question is => where else in the carb the fuel channel may prevent air pressure to go through the carb.
I have tried to play with high/low needls, but it didn't help me either.

Very puzzled with this issue.

Please, help if you know this subject.

Andrew K.

Hide Signatures

(in reply to Gordon W)
       Post #: 1288

RE: GAS Saito - 3/9/2013 6:00 AM   
w8ye



Posts: 36436
Score: 318
Joined: 12/11/2001
Last Login: 5/20/2013
From: Shelby, OH, USA
Status: offline 		It's probable that the needle and seat of the demand regulator or metering valve are stuck. This would explain the symptoms you describe.

I never run mine dry. everything dries out in the carburator and it causes problems.


_____________________________

Attended the CutFinger Institute of DirtNap University for years but never did graduate....
Recipient, Mangledhand award August 2008
Club Saito Member #7
Original AMA #31261

Hide Signatures

(in reply to akouzmit)
       Post #: 1289

RE: GAS Saito - 3/9/2013 2:45 PM   
akouzmit



Posts: 103
Score: 100
Joined: 7/2/2007
Last Login: 5/8/2013
From: Toronto, ON, CANADA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: w8ye

It's probable that the needle and seat of the demand regulator or metering valve are stuck. This would explain the symptoms you describe.

I never run mine dry. everything dries out in the carburator and it causes problems.



I am not much familiar with SAITO FG-36 carburetor.
Please, could you point me on some site, which has SAITO carburetors description?

Andrew

Hide Signatures

(in reply to w8ye)
       Post #: 1290

RE: GAS Saito - 3/9/2013 8:49 PM   
FedeDiaz



Posts: 72
Score: 105
Joined: 12/9/2008
Last Login: 4/27/2013
From: Guatemala, GUATEMALA
Status: offline 		Sometimes this misfire may be due to the spark plug gap. It is advised by the owners user to set it at 0.7 - 0.8mm, but I found it to be to wide open. Try to set the spark plug gap at 0.15 or 0.2. You may notice an improved behavior or the engine at all stages.

Hide Signatures

(in reply to Sharpeye22)
       Post #: 1291

RE: GAS Saito - 3/9/2013 9:05 PM  1 votes
FedeDiaz



Posts: 72
Score: 105
Joined: 12/9/2008
Last Login: 4/27/2013
From: Guatemala, GUATEMALA
Status: offline 		Don't mess up disassembling the carburetor. What is happening to your carb is that the metering valve is stuck (as pointed by w8ye), due to evaporation of the fuel and the oil contained on it became sticky and it sometimes stuck the metering valve. It is very easy to fix it. Just remove the 4 screws that hold the metal cover of the carburetor and push the center of the diaphragm few times (this pushes the lever that is directly connected to the metering valve). Replace the cover.



Are you sure that the valves are closing completely? In order to be sure, re check the valve/tappet gap adjustment, as described by the owners manual. Be sure that the valves are moving freely.

Now remove the spark plug completely. Open fully the throttle. Using an electric starter, rotate the engine for about 1 minute (if you can, you may choke the carb with one finger for a few seconds). Replace the spark plug. Connect the spark plug cover. Try to re start the engine (not with the car fully open, maybe at mid throttle). Let me know if the engine come back to life.

Best Regards and Happy Flying !!!


Attachments
Click to see fullsize image.
Click for fullsize 		Click to see fullsize image.
Click for fullsize


Hide Signatures

(in reply to akouzmit)
       Post #: 1292

RE: GAS Saito - 3/9/2013 11:39 PM   
akouzmit



Posts: 103
Score: 100
Joined: 7/2/2007
Last Login: 5/8/2013
From: Toronto, ON, CANADA
Status: offline 		Thank you everybody for feedback. I just found that exhaust valve stuck in down position.
Look like carb require some negative pressure in order for big size membrane to affect another valve, which is opening fuel passage.
I was wrong. Just applying air pressure at fuel intake is not going to work. The negative pressure from the piston movement require to open the passage for fuel.
The valve, which stuck in down position prevent the negative pressure to happen.
I have applied lubrication for valve, but it didn't help in 2 hours and then I decided to use torch to heat up valve and it worked right away in 1-2 sec. Happy end :-)
Andrei.

Hide Signatures

(in reply to FedeDiaz)
       Post #: 1293

RE: GAS Saito - 3/10/2013 2:19 AM   
SrTelemaster150



Posts: 1414
Score: 229
Joined: 2/7/2012
Last Login: 5/20/2013
From: Brasher Falls, NY, USA
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sharpeye22

Great thanks for the info.  One more question.  In your openion which is better CH or RCEXL ignitions? or are they the same?

The C&H adjustable magnet ring & cam housing hall sensor mount are far superior when it come to ease of set-up & tuning.

The C&H modules are also repairable.

The C&H systems are worth the few extra $$$$.

_____________________________

Club Saito #785 - FA91S CDI, FA150 CDI, FA180 CDI, FA180HC CDI/BBC, FA200TI, FA300TTDP CDI

Hide Signatures

(in reply to Sharpeye22)
       Post #: 1294

RE: GAS Saito - 3/11/2013 9:16 PM   
Arruda


 

Posts: 59
Score: 105
Joined: 6/5/2007
Last Login: 5/13/2013
From: Rio de JaneiroRJ, BRAZIL
Status: offline 		Hi Guys,
I’ve crashed my plane yesterday and the ignition box of my SAITO FG21 was damaged (made by RCEXL).
My question is, can I replace this unit by a standard RCEXL ignition box or should I buy the one sold by SAITO?
Maybe the SAITO unit has a different advance curve …
Any ideas?



Hide Signatures

(in reply to SrTelemaster150)
       Post #: 1295

RE: GAS Saito - 3/11/2013 9:29 PM   
akouzmit



Posts: 103
Score: 100
Joined: 7/2/2007
Last Login: 5/8/2013
From: Toronto, ON, CANADA
Status: offline 		When I replaced original ignition box for FG-36 by rcexl one purchased directly from rcexl I have found that I have to move hole sensor about 28 degree in advance from the original sensor position.
I have found this by purchasing from rcexl ignition setup tool. Very easy to use with precise results.
I have tested new ignition just last week and it is performing over my expectations!!!
Andrei.

Hide Signatures

(in reply to Arruda)
       Post #: 1296

RE: GAS Saito - 5/4/2013 7:55 AM   
kochj


 

Posts: 3651
Score: 143
Joined: 12/5/2005
Last Login: 5/20/2013
From: Victoria, MN, USA
Status: offline 		Just a Q's...
Why keep the original carb on the FG36 and FG30?
Pick up a 4stroke carb from walbro or Zama (China) and end all your tuning woes...

You can get them for 30$ and a simple bolt on setup...and bing zing... done ....

If you have any other issues, it would be ignition to blame....

I may not even attempt to run the stock carb on this one, and place a Zama on it ....and be happy..

Only other issues to be seen with this engine, is a sticky exhaust valve.... That is it!....
The engine is solid.... nothing wrong with it....

The carb is to blame for the issues... and sometimes the ignition...
Run full synthetic with (a D rating ) I will have to check that.... and it will work great...

_____________________________

If you can''''t dazzle em with brilliance,baffle em with BS

Hide Signatures

(in reply to akouzmit)
       Post #: 1297

RE: GAS Saito - 5/4/2013 8:25 AM   
AM6


 

Posts: 47
Score: 105
Joined: 10/28/2009
Last Login: 5/20/2013
From: Essex, UNITED KINGDOM
Status: offline 		 Kochj

Could you recommend a specific carb?

Am6.


Hide Signatures

(in reply to kochj)
       Post #: 1298

RE: GAS Saito - 5/4/2013 11:19 AM   
Old Fart


 

Posts: 2064
Score: 158
Joined: 4/27/2008
Last Login: 5/20/2013
From: Perth, AUSTRALIA
Status: offline 		Look at your ignition unit and all will be well.

_____________________________

Watch out for the ground eh?

Hide Signatures

(in reply to AM6)
       Post #: 1299

RE: GAS Saito - 5/4/2013 11:35 AM   
AM6


 

Posts: 47
Score: 105
Joined: 10/28/2009
Last Login: 5/20/2013
From: Essex, UNITED KINGDOM
Status: offline 		 O.F.

I replaced my ignition some time ago now....certainly a great improvement.
however, I believe that other subtle symptoms may be carb related.

One thing for sure is that you must have an extremely good cooling setup for these to
run well.

kochj

Have you tried a replacement carb on the 36??

Am6


Hide Signatures

(in reply to Old Fart)
       Post #: 1300

Page:   <<   < prev  44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 [52] 53   next >   >>  
All Forums >> Glow Engines, Gas Engines, Fuel &amp; Mfg Support Forums >> Gas Engines >> RE: GAS Saito
Page: <<   < prev  44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 [52] 53   next >   >>  




Jump to:


 
Google 



Search | Marketplace | Event Calendar | Local Clubs | Magazine | Product Ratings | New Products | Discussion Forums

Photo Gallery | Instructor Search | Field|Track|Marina Search

Advertisers | Hobby Vendor Resources | Rate Manufacturers | Sign In/Sign Up

SITE MAP!   : :   FORUM RULES

RC Universe is a service of Internet Brands, Inc. Copyright © 2001-2013.

Charities we support that also need your help
Yorkie Rescue | Humane Society | ASPCA | Crohn's-Colitis America


1.031RCU1