RE: GAS Saito

RE: GAS Saito
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RE: GAS Saito - 4/2/2008 11:18:01 PM

reincarnate

Posts: 804
Joined: 10/1/2006
From: Columbia City, IN, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kochj

Did you guys get you MAN copy???

There RPM figures for the FG-36 Seem to be padded~.....

They do not seem to be close to what others are getting.....

20X8 APC=7500
18X10 APC=8100

A SPE 40cc gas RPS:

20X8=7150
18X10=7350

So the Saito 36cc puts out more power than a 40cc gas 2-stroke??????

Any one feel that this is a little odd???

Justin

They're actually a little thin if anything. I know, I know, MAN always pads their articles, but this one is actually pretty close from what I've seen on mine. I've only run four props so far, so not a huge baseline but:
18x8 MAS Classic=8300
18x10 Xoar=7900
19x6 Xoar=7800
20x8 Xoar Sword=7400

Looking to running a 20x6 Xoar for flight, so hopefully they have a rep at Toledo!

89 Octane US and Evolution oil at 20:1. Air temp was 50 deg F. All RPM at same needle setting.

Besides Justin, RPM doesn't necessarily equate to power as you know. The Saito will develop it's most efficient power at a different place than the SPE, and that's not top end.

The Saito will sound better doing it though...

(in reply to kochj)

Post #: 226

RE: GAS Saito - 4/2/2008 11:29:26 PM

kochj

Posts: 1496
Joined: 12/5/2005
From: Victoria, MN, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hans Meij

Had one one the bench today, and it was much better then I expected.
After about half a tank of fuel
Menz 18*8 8100
APC 16*12 8300
Engel 18*11 (this is a narrow blade carbon prop) 7900
Engel 17*12 (this is a wide blade carbon prop) 7600

Fuel: Shell VPower , 1:20 Mobil one oil.

This engine performed 500 rpm better than my OS200 on 10% nitro

The only prop I can relate the 40cc engine too is the APC props.....
This is how I am able to make a comparison between the two engines......

Different props even though same pitch and length, gives me nothing to make the comparison too.......

So, actually those mean nothing to a direct comparison test.......
If I used those same props you have there on the FLy RC magazine SPE 40, then I would have a direct comparison!....... But I do NOT....

Someone said back a bit in the forum that MY Giant Aeromaster w/ a saito gas would be simular to mounting a 32cc gas engine on it and would barly fly it!.....

Care to Rethink that one??????????????????/

Sounds as if this engine is puting out far more power than the KNaw sayers had initially anticipated!......

Good to hear!..... This engine sounds like a keeper....

Justin

_____________________________

Winning isn''''t everything, it''''s all there is.

(in reply to Hans Meij)

Post #: 227

RE: GAS Saito - 4/3/2008 7:09:35 AM

Hans Meij

Posts: 459
Joined: 4/5/2002
From: Schoonhoven, NETHERLANDS
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: kochj
Different props even though same pitch and length, gives me nothing to make the comparison too.......

You are right about that. I even find it difficult to compare a two stroke with a four stroke only based on ground-rpm numbers.
For me this engine was a pleasant surprise, vibrations for such a large single fourstroke were moderate, exhaust fumes were clean (even with the 1:20 mix) fuel consumption was really low.
I will try this engine on a pattern ship and see how it performs for that purpose. For a big draggy plane like a giant aeromaster i would select a bigger engine however. I'm sure it will not do better than what you have experienced before.
It was this video, that convinced me to give it a try.

http://www.hokusei-japan.com/FG-36-Edge1.wmv

http://www.hokusei-china.com/P%20P%20EDGE%20540T%2026CC.htm

< Message edited by Hans Meij -- 4/3/2008 7:22:17 AM >

(in reply to kochj)

Post #: 228

RE: GAS Saito - 4/3/2008 7:55:39 PM

kochj

Posts: 1496
Joined: 12/5/2005
From: Victoria, MN, USA
Status: offline

Ahaa...

I was wondering where I downloaded those videos from!....

I posted them on the RCU video page as well...

In a MAN review (hear I go again)LOL........ THey used a O.S. 1.60FX and said that it had plenty of power!..... Flew great and said that you
could make the loops very large without it falling off.......

I know that the O.S. 200 FS is not as powerfull as the OS 160FX..... (Except for the High ENd Fuel Injected one) Few 400 less according to some pattern guys.......

If the Saito is pulling about 400rmps more than the O.S 200, then I can conclude that it is very Simmular in power to a O.S 1.60FX nitro 2-stroke?

I am just trying to get some sort of an idea of engine comparison and what planes this engine would work in.......
The Aeromaster seems like it would be too big of a plane for this engine... But according to those RPM nubers..... The FUji 43 works great in it... and If the Saito is pulling
more than some of the 40cc gassers.... I would not think twice about placing it in that plane!.....

THen again, I could be way off,,,, been there before!.....I know, the Whole 4 stroke 2-stroke power band thing... But the RPM numbers seem amazing to me.....

Justin

_____________________________

Winning isn''''t everything, it''''s all there is.

(in reply to Hans Meij)

Post #: 229

RE: GAS Saito - 4/9/2008 12:07:29 AM

kiosk

Posts: 183
Joined: 2/12/2008
From: , FL, USA
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: reincarnate

Mines installed and ready to test in the H9 1.50 Mustang. Pretty involved firewall mod, but overall not too bad. Break in testing this weekend if it doesn't rain.

what size fuel line are you using on your FG36?

(in reply to reincarnate)

Post #: 230

RE: GAS Saito - 4/9/2008 6:09:16 AM

wswanepoel

Posts: 97
Joined: 6/28/2007
From: FintasKuwait, KUWAIT
Status: offline

[/quote]

what size fuel line are you using on your FG36?
[/quote]

I used medium size (here we get small medium and large) fuel line, but you can use small as well as this motor consume very little fuel.

_____________________________

Regards Bill
Remember: Nose heavy planes flies like a dog. Tail-heavy planes only fly once.

(in reply to kiosk)

Post #: 231

RE: GAS Saito - 4/9/2008 1:20:48 PM

SteveD-RCU

Posts: 644
Joined: 1/21/2002
From: Sault Ste Marie, ON, CANADA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: wswanepoel

I have the same sticky exhaust valve problem every 3 to 4 flights. I have to open and lubricate the valve and then i can fly again. I am on 20:1 mix and has done about 12 flights now. Any suggestions will be welcomed. What about adding some valve ease or injector cleaner to the gas? is this an option? Might a different type of oil help? I am using standard ACE hardware ash less two stroke oil.

BTW: It is installed in a Cessna 182 skyline supposed to have a 120 to 150 four stroke, but it is flying fantastic with this 36 gas Seito. It has a 435ml tank and filled with gas will last more than 1hour and 15 minutes.

Thanks in advance.

Can you give us more details wswanepol?did your engine die in flight?Did the exhaust valve stick just prior to a flight?Do you think its the rich mixture that maybe is causing the valve to stick?Maybe since your engine is basically broken in with 12 flights you might try 30:1 mix to see what happens.Then maybe try a different oil.Keep us posted.
Steve

< Message edited by SteveD-RCU -- 4/9/2008 1:33:30 PM >

(in reply to wswanepoel)

Post #: 232

RE: GAS Saito - 4/11/2008 7:32:55 PM

togatoga

Posts: 307
Joined: 11/26/2004
From: Singapore, SINGAPORE
Status: offline

Tsutomu's friend reported the same thing about the sticky valve due to lack of lubrication. Did the same thing and lubricated the rocker shaft to free it.So far no word from Saito as to a fix.I'm holding off running the engine until I get word of a fix if there is one I hope.Don't want to ruin the engine.

(in reply to SteveD-RCU)

Post #: 233

RE: GAS Saito - 4/11/2008 8:10:41 PM

wswanepoel

Posts: 97
Joined: 6/28/2007
From: FintasKuwait, KUWAIT
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SteveD-RCU

Can you give us more details wswanepol?did your engine die in flight?Did the exhaust valve stick just prior to a flight?Do you think its the rich mixture that maybe is causing the valve to stick?Maybe since your engine is basically broken in with 12 flights you might try 30:1 mix to see what happens.Then maybe try a different oil.Keep us posted.
Steve

Hi Steve

The engine never died in flight. If I want to start it the next flight there is just no compression. I have tried other brands of oil with the same effect. Although I have had about 12 flights now I am scared to go to 30:1 mixture as they say 5 tanks of 20:1 for braking in their manual. That will mean about 6 hours of flying time. As we are in the desert here I keep my flights to about 5 to 6 minutes as it is on average between 30 to 35 degrees here. I have fitted a temperature probe on the cylinder head and although the temperature never go over 92 deg Celsius, I am still scared to fly for longer periods. giving all this I only have done about 1 hour 30 minutes on the engine and as I say I don't really know if it is run in or not. I was actually waiting to reach 2.5 litres of fuel before going over to 30:1. As a matter of interest I have added plus minus 50 ml of valve ease / injector cleaner to the 3 litres of gas that I have mixed and on the last 3 flights I had no sticky valve problem anymore. It is to early to say but I will add another 6 flights tomorrow(weather permitting) and then I will be able to be certain if this did solve the problem.

I will keep you posted.

_____________________________

Regards Bill
Remember: Nose heavy planes flies like a dog. Tail-heavy planes only fly once.

(in reply to SteveD-RCU)

Post #: 234

RE: GAS Saito - 4/14/2008 6:15:55 AM

wswanepoel

Posts: 97
Joined: 6/28/2007
From: FintasKuwait, KUWAIT
Status: offline

It seems that they have lost some messages here.

To recap I have done 6 flights yesterday morning and 3 yesterday afternoon
resulting in about 60 minutes for flying. The sticky valve issue is
something of the past. Weather it is the Valve Ease/ Injector cleaner
additive that I have mixed with the fuel. Or whether the engine is becoming
lose I don't know, but I am just glad it is something of the past. I also
noticed that my head temperature is 10 deg Celsius lower than what it was
before.

Has anyone have an idea for a choke on this engine. If you do a hand start
you do need a choke of some sort in my opinion.

I attaché a picture of the bottle of valve ease/ injector cleaner additive
that I have used.

Attachments

Click to see fullsize image.

Click for fullsize

< Message edited by wswanepoel -- 4/14/2008 1:38:22 PM >

_____________________________

Regards Bill
Remember: Nose heavy planes flies like a dog. Tail-heavy planes only fly once.

(in reply to wswanepoel)

Post #: 235

RE: GAS Saito - 4/14/2008 1:08:35 PM

SteveD-RCU

Posts: 644
Joined: 1/21/2002
From: Sault Ste Marie, ON, CANADA
Status: offline

Thats good news Bill,the only thing I can think of for the choke problem is to install a primer line with the outlet near the carburator .Saito had a setup like this for their 170R which needed prime for the first run although all it did was add a little fuel to a small bowl beside the carb and it drained in from there.Would be easy to tap into the carb line near the carb with a t-fitting with a 1/8" line maybe?
Steve

(in reply to wswanepoel)

Post #: 236

RE: GAS Saito - 4/14/2008 1:50:55 PM

wswanepoel

Posts: 97
Joined: 6/28/2007
From: FintasKuwait, KUWAIT
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SteveD-RCU

Thats good news Bill,the only thing I can think of for the choke problem is to install a primer line with the outlet near the carburator .Saito had a setup like this for their 170R which needed prime for the first run although all it did was add a little fuel to a small bowl beside the carb and it drained in from there.Would be easy to tap into the carb line near the carb with a t-fitting with a 1/8" line maybe?
Steve

This might be a good idea. If somebody have a picture of this I would appreciate it.

_____________________________

Regards Bill
Remember: Nose heavy planes flies like a dog. Tail-heavy planes only fly once.

(in reply to SteveD-RCU)

Post #: 237

RE: GAS Saito - 4/21/2008 8:09:15 PM

normandouellette

Posts: 369
Joined: 3/12/2007
From: Laval, QC, CANADA
Status: offline

Hello guys just joining to get updates.

Any issues on this engine so far other than sticky valves? I'm looking to get 4 to power my avro Lancaster 17 feet. The 4 stroke is apealing.

Normand

(in reply to wswanepoel)

Post #: 238

RE: GAS Saito - 4/21/2008 8:48:05 PM

SteveD-RCU

Posts: 644
Joined: 1/21/2002
From: Sault Ste Marie, ON, CANADA
Status: offline

None yet that I've heard Normand.A 17ft Lanc sounds like quite a project,did you draw your own plans?My DC3 will soon be ready with the Saito gassers I'll give a report soon.
Steve

(in reply to normandouellette)