RE: GAS Saito  
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RE: GAS Saito - 10/24/2007 9:32:49 PM   
DLEVETT


 

Posts: 425
Joined: 10/9/2002
From: GUELPH, ON, CANADA
Status: offline 		The way I,m reading the specs, is that the engine itself is 48oz, the muffler is 3oz. Thats 51oz, if you add a 4oz igniton your at 55oz, which equates to 3.4lbs.
Not bad for a 4 stroke. Every 4 stroke is going to weigh more than a 2 stroke.
In the right application [airframe] this engine will be a neat alternative to whats already available.
As for the price its made in Japan so its going to cost a lttle more.
I,d still like to try one though when they get released.

Dave

< Message edited by DLEVETT -- 10/25/2007 1:50:12 AM >

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RE: GAS Saito - 10/25/2007 1:15:49 AM   
Tsutomu Mabuchi



Posts: 662
Joined: 7/10/2004
From: Yokohama, JAPAN
Status: offline 		I have ordered FG-36 for Don Smith Ki-61 Hien(Tony) 85".
The street price in Japan is JY75,000(US$650) , so I think $650 in US is not bad
in comparison of view.


Tsutomu Mabuchi

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RE: GAS Saito - 10/25/2007 1:52:20 AM   
DLEVETT


 

Posts: 425
Joined: 10/9/2002
From: GUELPH, ON, CANADA
Status: offline 		Now thats going to be a good airframe to hang it on.
I should sound really good as well when compared to a 2 stroke engine.

Dave

< Message edited by DLEVETT -- 10/27/2007 3:52:51 PM >

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       Post #: 53

RE: GAS Saito - 10/27/2007 3:50:09 AM   
Pete Bergstrom


 

Posts: 54
Joined: 4/2/2002
From: Champaign, IL, USA
Status: offline 		Dave,

You are right about the specs. The 66oz figure includes the aluminum mount that comes with the engine. We found that it did a good job as a heat sink so we decided to include it with each engine. It is a beautiful piece all by itself.

Pete Bergstrom
Category Manager - Hangar 9/Saito/Evolution
Horizon Hobby Inc.

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RE: GAS Saito - 11/1/2007 2:49:27 AM   
Campgems


 

Posts: 1911
Joined: 2/18/2006
From: Arroyo Grande, CA, USA
Status: offline 		Does anyone know what size the plug is. From the photos, it looks like a 1/4-32 thread like the glow plugs. Is this the size, or is it larger?

Don

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RE: GAS Saito - 11/1/2007 11:48:52 AM   
Don M.



Posts: 1817
Joined: 3/2/2004
From: Halifax, NS, CANADA
Status: online 		Pete, can you tell me why they decided NOT to put bearings on the connecting rod. I'm no engineer but a plain rod running 30:1 oil mix makes me nervous.

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RE: GAS Saito - 11/2/2007 2:49:46 AM   
XJet


 

Posts: 3451
Joined: 3/31/2003
From: Tokoroa, NEW ZEALAND
Status: offline 		I suspect there are no bearings on the big-end of the con-rod because there just wasn't room. If they've used the FA220 crankcase castings then they'd have to significantly reduce the diameter of the crank-pin to fit bearings in there and that create a whole lot of other problems.

For what it's worth, we run 12% oil down this way on even our fastest-revving model engines and have *never* had a lubrication-related failure.

We do however, stick with very high quality ester-based synthetics with a hint of castor in order to do this.

The extra lubricity of these oils plus the inherently higher lubricity of gasoline could well be enough to allow such a setup.

Remember also that 4-strokes have a somewhat different lube system to 2-strokes.

It's been my experience that pretty much regardless of the amount of oil in your fuel, an equilibrium gets set up in the crankcase so that you always end up with a pool of oil that accumulates to a certain degreee and then the excess starts blowing out the crankcase breather.

So long as you start with some oil in there, you'll never run it dry, even with small amounts of oil in the fuel. Using extra oil only results in more coming out the breather.

Whenever I take the backplate off my 4-strokes there's always a good half teaspoon of slippery oil sitting in there -- whether I run 20% or 12% oil in my fuel.

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RE: GAS Saito - 11/8/2007 2:18:20 AM   
Flight Risk



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From: private, CO, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: XJet
SNIP

Remember also that 4-strokes have a somewhat different lube system to 2-strokes.

It's been my experience that pretty much regardless of the amount of oil in your fuel, an equilibrium gets set up in the crankcase so that you always end up with a pool of oil that accumulates to a certain degreee and then the excess starts blowing out the crankcase breather.

So long as you start with some oil in there, you'll never run it dry, even with small amounts of oil in the fuel. Using extra oil only results in more coming out the breather.

Whenever I take the backplate off my 4-strokes there's always a good half teaspoon of slippery oil sitting in there -- whether I run 20% or 12% oil in my fuel.


Good point Xjet. The bottom end of a 4-stroke is not exposed to direct fuel. The lubrication all comes from blow-by. A certain amont of oil will accumulate no matter the oil content. It seems the major limiting factor would be the heat of gas vs. glow. It would probably be fine if a good synthetic oil was used, which would stand up to high heat. I wonder if castor can be mixed with gas?

Rod S



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RE: GAS Saito - 11/8/2007 2:24:57 AM   
XJet


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Flight Risk
Good point Xjet. The bottom end of a 4-stroke is not exposed to direct fuel. The lubrication all comes from blow-by. A certain amont of oil will accumulate no matter the oil content. It seems the major limiting factor would be the heat of gas vs. glow. It would probably be fine if a good synthetic oil was used, which would stand up to high heat. I wonder if castor can be mixed with gas?

Yes, you can mix castor with gasoline and it's still used quite frequently in racing circles (gokarts, etc).

However, at the higher temperatures found in gas engines it does tend to form varnish more readily than when used in glow-fuel, but that's not an issue if you're in competition racing and tear your engine down after every meet (or two).

However, for a model gas engine you might find that you end up gumming your ring after a relatively short period of time.

A good synthetic would be a good way to go -- perhaps with just a sniff of castor to help the camshaft/lifter area.



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RE: GAS Saito - 11/10/2007 6:50:42 AM   
kochj


 

Posts: 1496
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From: Victoria, MN, USA
Status: offline 		A great airframe for this engine would be the Gp giant aeromaster!
it is also on sale at Towers for 250$ now that is a good deal!
I got mine and it is fantastic..... Perfect everything!

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RE: GAS Saito - 11/11/2007 12:03:12 AM   
kochj


 

Posts: 1496
Joined: 12/5/2005
From: Victoria, MN, USA
Status: offline 		Chief aircraft has the engine (you can place it in your cart online), but how are you able to tell if they have it in stock or not??
Nov11 is what I heard!

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RE: GAS Saito - 11/11/2007 10:38:27 AM   
BAS



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Joined: 12/15/2001
From: Altoona, IA, USA
Status: offline 		What do you guys think of this motor on the hangar nine extra 260 27% i think it would be a good combo.

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RE: GAS Saito - 11/11/2007 2:31:35 PM   
closetguy


 

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From: berlin hts, OH, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BAS

What do you guys think of this motor on the hangar nine extra 260 27% i think it would be a good combo.




BAS, just my experience with the 220 glow.i get 8000 on a biela 20-8 prop and 7700 with a pt models 19-8. it's on a chip hyde tunnel vision at 12-3/4 lbs. has unlimited vertical,but ask it to pull that plane out of a hover and it STRUGGLES to do it. the numbers that i get are what most others are getting with there's.so i don't think there is something wrong with the engine,it's has great compresion. just no power or maybe the 12-3/4 plane is too much for it?
so most converted glow to gas engines will have a little less power than the glow version.
and at 3.4 lbs. it's heavy for this class of engines,there are 50cc engines that weigh less.
so i think it's over weight
over price
and will be under power
i may be wrong but this is my experience with the 220 glow. but it would make a nice sounding war bird engine in gas.
ENJOY!

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RE: GAS Saito - 11/11/2007 2:35:31 PM   
BAS



Posts: 1384
Joined: 12/15/2001
From: Altoona, IA, USA
Status: offline 		Yes the weight is a issue with me also. I dont know if your seen the video of the gas saito being flown in a 84 inch span edge but it was pretty awesome. I just love the idea a 4 stroke gasser but like you say it is pretty heavy. All up weight with the included motor mount and all components is allmost 4 lbs. I think the wing loading might be a little high for the extra. I would like to hear from Mike from Horizon on this issue. Thanks for the reply.

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RE: GAS Saito - 11/11/2007 4:55:14 PM   
kochj


 

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Joined: 12/5/2005
From: Victoria, MN, USA
Status: offline 		Mike already talked about it on a nother forum!!

Justin

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RE: GAS Saito - 11/11/2007 7:18:34 PM