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RE: GAS Saito - 12/10/2011 10:33 PM   
AM6


 

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I have been running in a FG 36 for a couple of months and now have 10.00hrs flying time on it.

So far i have been running an 18 x 8 Xoar (7500rpm), 'uncowled' on a donor model in preparation for using in a scale subject.
By and large it has performed well, although I have noticed the burps etc when rolling, but the engine has never stopped and I have been pleased overall.

I have recently started experimenting with different size props in an effort to see what I could expect.

Before I starterd I thought best to check plug and tappets etc. to ensure optimum conditions.
When I cleaned and checked the plug I found that I had originally 'wrongly' set the gap to 20 thou (per CM6 instructions) as opoosed to the saito manual (which states .6-.7mm)  - so reset to just under 0.7mm.

On my next outing the engine performed very poorly, misfiring badly at anything over @ 1/3rd throttle.
I tried various carb settings but could make no appreciable improvement...eventually 'remembering' that the only thing that I had changed from the earlier
30 or so flights was the plug gap(?).
So back at .5mm on the plug and try again...whereupon the engine was back to previous 'good running'.

However, when going up to a 19 x 8 (menz wood 6800rpm) the engine ran well up to about 85% of throttle travel whereby it would misfire slightly refusing to clean up.

I then tried a 20 x 6  ( JFX wood 5800rpm) where the same symptoms occured?

I am starting to wonder if I 'may' have an igntion problem that is coming to light?

I must stress that the engine has had many acceptable flights previously....any thougts appreciated?

Thanks,
AM6.



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RE: GAS Saito - 12/11/2011 12:08 AM   
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Status: offline 		The RCEXL ignitions fire very well at the wider settings and the engine runs better also.


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RE: GAS Saito - 12/14/2011 6:08 AM  1 votes
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FG 36



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RE: GAS Saito - 1/10/2012 4:50 PM  1 votes
AM6


 

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Update.

I tried various things to get around this 'misfiring'  problem in my earler post - including fitting a sub c ignition pack and checking all connections etc.etc. but could make no real improvement.

At a list ditch attempt I replaced the Saito igntion with a RCXCEL unit and ''Bingo''.

Engine now runs with .7mm plug gap.

Menz 19 x 8.
idle rpm - 1400 Very reliable
Max rpm - 6800 Smooth and steady.

Thanks for the heads up....although it ia a pity that I had to fit a 'cheap' aftermarket component to a very expensive engine to obtain this result.

Very Happy for now however.

AM6..

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RE: GAS Saito - 1/10/2012 5:28 PM   
Didg


 

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Status: offline 		Mine still suffers from the misfireing problems too.
Where did you get your RCXCEL unit from, is there somewhere in the UK that does them?

I have also recently gone back to factory settings and started again with the high and low mixture settings and I now can't get my idle low enough. In fact when I close the throttle all the way to the stop (on the carb) using my fuel cut switch, it still continues to run. I have to cut the ignition to stop it. :/

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RE: GAS Saito - 1/10/2012 9:09 PM   
w8ye



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Status: offline 		I changed my three Saito FG engines over to CH ignitions some years ago. My CH ignitions are actually RCEXL ignitions.


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RE: GAS Saito - 1/10/2012 9:33 PM   
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Status: offline 		Is this change a direct swap with the two ignitions units? 


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RE: GAS Saito - 1/11/2012 1:20 AM   
w8ye



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The RCEXL ignition timing sensor must be mounted. The original Saito induction ignition timing device mounted at top dead center. The RCEXL sensor must be mounted to fire the ignition at 28 degrees BTDC. The new RCEXL sensor mounts are just about long enough to do this? Mine are CH sensors mounted on a custom aluminum bracket to position them at the 28 degree point.


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RE: GAS Saito - 1/11/2012 9:13 AM   
AM6


 

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I bought a RCEXL Unit from Apache Aviation here in the UK.
The one that you want is the CM6 Single unit ....@ £46.00 with Postage if I remember correctly.

Sharpeye22.

Direct swap apart from two points...

As w8ye states the timing must be set around 28 degress Before Top Dead Centre.
To mount the sensor correctly (which will now sit off to the right when veiwed from the front) I did drill and tap an extra 3mm hole to allow 2 fixing points.
I also ended up having to use the 'larger of the two' sensor mounting brackets that are supplied with the 'RCEXL Unit' .
I had to completely remove one side of the mounting bracket to enable the sensor to fit without interfering with the forward flank crankcase webbing.
If you have trouble fitting I could supply a photo if neccesary.

Plug Cap.
Using the standard RCEXL unit - the spring clip that secures the two pressed steel sides of the plug cap is too thick and prevented my cap from seating correctly.
To get around this I merely removed the ring from the Saito Cap (which is made from a slighly thinner cross section wire) and swapped onto the RCEXL cap.

Happy Landings
Am6.



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RE: GAS Saito - 1/11/2012 12:30 PM   
mpascual


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AM6

Didg,

I bought a RCEXL Unit from Apache Aviation here in the UK.
The one that you want is the CM6 Single unit ....@ £46.00 with Postage if I remember correctly.

Sharpeye22.

Direct swap apart from two points...

As w8ye states the timing must be set around 28 degress Before Top Dead Centre.
To mount the sensor correctly (which will now sit off to the right when veiwed from the front) I did drill and tap an extra 3mm hole to allow 2 fixing points.
I also ended up having to use the 'larger of the two' sensor mounting brackets that are supplied with the 'RCEXL Unit' .
I had to completely remove one side of the mounting bracket to enable the sensor to fit without interfering with the forward flank crankcase webbing.
If you have trouble fitting I could supply a photo if neccesary.

Plug Cap.
Using the standard RCEXL unit - the spring clip that secures the two pressed steel sides of the plug cap is too thick and prevented my cap from seating correctly.
To get around this I merely removed the ring from the Saito Cap (which is made from a slighly thinner cross section wire) and swapped onto the RCEXL cap.

Happy Landings
Am6.





Please, post some pictures of your sensor bracket mounted on the engine

Thanks in advance

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RE: GAS Saito - 1/11/2012 7:37 PM   
w8ye



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Status: offline 		When Saito brought out the FG17 (Saito 100) they have used the RCEXL type ignition.

To mount the RCEXL sensor, they repositionsed the hub to make the timing at 28 degrees BTDC. The new sensor mounts on the casting seam just like the old Saito ignition sensor did.





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RE: GAS Saito - 1/11/2012 9:46 PM   
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Status: offline 		Ok thanks,  I have to drill and tap a new mounting hole for the new bracket.  Mount it at 28 degrees.  Then just hook up the new system.  Sounds do-able for me. 

My FG14 is still doing the missing thing at times, and every now and again my FG30 will as well.  Strangly enough my FG36 has never missed a lick.



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RE: GAS Saito - 1/12/2012 2:14 AM   
w8ye



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Status: offline 		It would be easier to mount a RCEXL sensor on the casting seam and re-drill the locating pin hole in the hub to get 28 degrees on your FG-36 or whatever..


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RE: GAS Saito - 1/12/2012 12:57 PM   
AM6


 

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This is a picture of how my replacement sensor mount looks now....excuse the poor quality.
AM6.

Attachments
Click to see fullsize image.
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RE: GAS Saito - 1/25/2012 11:23 AM   
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Status: offline 		Those of you who hand start your engine, how do you prime for the first start of the day, do you do as the latest manual says and open the throttle fully and turn the engine over?

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RE: GAS Saito - 1/25/2012 3:13 PM   
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RE: GAS Saito - 1/25/2012 3:16 PM   
Didg


 

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RE: GAS Saito - 1/25/2012 3:21 PM   
w8ye



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Status: offline 		The carb on the FG30 & 36 is a barrel type Walbro carb.

For priming the engine, you close the throttle and with the carb adjustment wand, you thread the threaded end into the center area of the throttle arm where the LS adjustment screw is and pull out on the throttle barrel while turning the engine over. This will open the fuel delivery system and allow the engine suction to draw fuel in to the carburetor throat.


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RE: GAS Saito - 1/25/2012 5:11 PM   
DeeCee 57



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Status: offline 		 well, not really related to the engine... But rather caused by it . I tried the search function, but found nothing on the subject, so here goes:

My Saito 36FG is to be installed in my GW Yak-55M. Now due to the length of the engine (cooling) mount, the engine and it's mount are too long when affixed onto the firewall, e.g. stick out almost an inch too far out of the cowl. Haven't checked about the CG yet, but I guess it too would be too far forward.

Question: has anyone here encountered a similar problem and what would be the best way of moving the firewall backwards whilst retaining its structural integrity?



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RE: GAS Saito - 1/25/2012 6:13 PM   
Sharpeye22



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quote:

ORIGINAL: w8ye

The carb on the FG30 & 36 is a barrel type Walbro carb.

For priming the engine, you close the throttle and with the carb adjustment wand, you thread the threaded end into the center area of the throttle arm where the LS adjustment screw is and pull out on the throttle barrel while turning the engine over. This will open the fuel delivery system and allow the engine suction to draw fuel in to the carburetor throat.




Say what?
  Its a Walbro carb. It will prime itself.  At least all mine do.


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RE: GAS Saito - 1/25/2012 8:41 PM   
Didg


 

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Status: offline 		I'm aware of the priming method you suggest but I don't find it works particularly well.

In the current manual it says;
"When you are ready to start the engine, switch the ignition on and set the throttle to a slightly high-idle speed. We highly recommend the use of an electric starter.
Using an electric starter, begin cranking the engine. It should fire within seconds of applying the starter. Allow the engine to idle for 30 to 45 seconds."

"If the engine does not start, even after using the electric starter to crank the engine a second time, open the throttle to maximum, turn off the ignition and turn the engine over about 4 revolutions. Switch the ignition on again and then restart the engine with the throttle at a fast idle position."

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RE: GAS Saito - 1/25/2012 10:35 PM   
w8ye



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quote:

"If the engine does not start, even after using the electric starter to crank the engine a second time, open the throttle to maximum, turn off the ignition and turn the engine over about 4 revolutions. Switch the ignition on again and then restart the engine with the throttle at a fast idle position."



That is a method to clear out a flooded engine.

The FG-30&36 have a different design carb than the FG-14,17, & 20.

The so called manual is about half fouled up between the two types


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RE: GAS Saito - 1/26/2012 9:25 AM   
Didg


 

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Status: offline 		Ok thanks.

When using the carb adjustment wand, does the throttle need to be completely shut off all the way to the stop, or will it still work on a tickover setting?

I've used both throttle settings to prime and I've never flooded my 36, my usual problem is that it not getting the fuel it needs to start.
When I've borrowed a starter it starts fine after a couple of seconds, with the throttle at tickover or slightly above.
When hand starting I usualy resort to sticking my finger into the venturi to get it to prime. However when I put the cowl on this won't be possible.

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RE: GAS Saito - 1/26/2012 10:32 AM   
w8ye



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Status: offline 		When pulling out on the throttle for priming the engine, the more closed the better.

The engine will not actually start unless the throttle is at high idle.

Finger over the venturi entrance is the most positive way for choking but like you say, is not always possible.


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RE: GAS Saito - 1/27/2012 2:21 AM   
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Status: offline 		I find fully closed as the best way to get fuel into the carby, followed by slightly open (idle) to get it started. My FG-14 primes and starts easily, but not so my FG-20. Normally I have to blow into the fuel filler hose, while holding my finder over the vent tube, and turn the engine to get it to draw. Once running it is fine and restarts first flick.  I've just rechecked/plumbed my fuel lines for the FG-20 (again) and will see how it goes this time.

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