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RE: F-8 Crusader build - 1/2/2008 6:31 PM   
kingaltair


 

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Status: offline 		Beautiful plane---one thing I'm interested in though is weight, and how the weight might be building up with full glassing. Personally I am no expert here in finishing--most of my planes have iron-on covering, although I DID glass the fuse of one plane. It turned out to be a 7 1/2 pound Taurus, and I later, (for performance purposes), wished I hadn't done that. Like I said, I'm no expert so I'd appreciate your thoughts on the reason for glassing the whole plane, vs performance.

What are you planning to use for power, and do you think something like a YS .61, (the upper limit of the traditional pattern plane, pre 1996, I think) would give you the performance you want?

How much does the plane weigh right now without equipment, and are you concerned about weight vs performance? If you're using larger than a 61 with pipe I guess it doesn't matter except the wing loading goes up.

Again--beautiful lines. You have a unique bird, and one of the coolest looking planes I've seen. It's also a big plane, (did you mention wingspan somewhere in the thread)--and I like big planes as you can imagine since I fly the King Altair.

Just want to pick your brain about the philosophy of glassing and weight.

Duane

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RE: F-8 Crusader build - 1/2/2008 9:00 PM   
stiletto660



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Status: offline 		It's definately a big plane. The fuselage rivals a 2-meter plane in length, but it's of course much thinner and more aerodynamic. The reason I'm glassing everything is for the nice appearance and hardness of the finish. Growing up at the local flying field, a painted plane was the sign of an "expert", and I admit that I'm still swayed by this line of thinking. I haven't weighed it yet, but I'm guesstimating it at finishing around 10 pounds.

I imagine if this was a pre-1996 plane, it would be one of those supercharged 1.20 types, but I have no experience with a 4 stroke. I was thinking about revving up a 91 with some extreme rpm and getting some good performance that way.


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RE: F-8 Crusader build - 1/2/2008 9:19 PM   
kingaltair


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: stiletto660

I haven't weighed it yet, but I'm guesstimating it at finishing around 10 pounds.

.....I was thinking about revving up a 91 with some extreme rpm and getting some good performance that way.



That ought to do it alright, but that would mean it couldn't compete in BPA--don't they have engine limits?

The (red/white) King Altair in the July MA SPA article was built from Tower balsa---it never occurred to me to take any pains at building it light---I didn't have a digital postal scale then, and just didn't think that way---anyway that King eventually weighed in at 9 1/2 pounds . To make matters worse, it has a long tail moment, and way VERY tail heavy--forcing me to add extra lead to the nose--gad zooks . The finished product weighed 9 lbs and 12 oz --way too heavy for SPA competition with an OS Surpass .91. Since I flew Novice, the rules, (at the time) did not set an engine limitation, so I put a Saito 125 in it. It sounded more like a lawn mower than a model, and STILL didn't have great performance. Ever since then I have been very careful about weight--that's what prompted the questions.

That plane's sister ship, built at the same time had a lot of the same wood in it, and hasn't flown yet--it's not quite finished. I'm expecting that it will also be too heavy for SPA--and this time there IS an engine limit. Bottom line is that this plane may just be a "fun-fly" pattern plane-----too bad with all the work I put into it building from scratch.

In that case, I'm also planning to put a .91 in her, and fly for fun.

Duane

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RE: F-8 Crusader build - 1/3/2008 12:10 AM   
stiletto660



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Status: offline 		As of right now, there is a 1.20 engine limit in BPA, so I think I'll be fine. I don't think they're really that strict right now, they're trying to be really inclusive.


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RE: F-8 Crusader build - 1/3/2008 2:00 PM   
kingaltair


 

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Status: offline 		A 120 should work fine and have more torque for verticals. Do they also allow the .91 2-stroke.

BTW-This was the red/orange/white Altair I was speaking of earlier, (see attachment). It is now kitted, and effort has been expended to keep it between 7 1/2--8 lbs, (second attachment)

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RE: F-8 Crusader build - 1/15/2008 5:51 PM   
tater1


 

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Status: offline 		I bui;t 2 of the gladiators and they flew very well,but needed a good running engine to keep going in those days the HP engines worked well.I think with the engines today it would be one great performer

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RE: F-8 Crusader build - 1/15/2008 6:14 PM   
tater1


 

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RE: F-8 Crusader build - 1/16/2008 3:52 AM   
rainedave



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Status: offline 		How can one get Gladiator plans? Didn't the kit have a fiberglass fuse? Are there plans that show a built-up fuse?

Thanks,
David

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RE: F-8 Crusader build - 1/16/2008 6:22 AM   
tater1


 

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Status: offline 		Both of the gladiators I built were from kits produced by a supplier in the Seattle area,fibreglas fusilages and foam wing and stab cores,that was back in the 60,s,I guess they are long gone now.

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RE: F-8 Crusader build - 4/3/2009 1:49 AM   
N1EDM



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Status: offline 		Hi 8178,

I've always had a soft spot for Brooke's Crusader. I'm wondering how yours ever came out.

I'd also be curious if you happened to have the plan number. I see where you mentioned that they were from MAN and I'd like to give them something to help search for them. Does anyone know which month/year the article happened to come out? I know that that's a reach, but if you happened to have built one of these, I thought that you might have printed a reference article to include with your plans.

Thanks,

Bob

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RE: F-8 Crusader build - 4/3/2009 1:57 AM   
rainedave



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Status: offline 		Bob, PM me your email address and I'll send you a copy you can print.

David

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RE: F-8 Crusader build - 4/3/2009 5:07 PM   
Free Bird


 

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Status: offline 		I have the original full-size mylar drawing of Brooke's Crusader that MAN used to print copies from and a PDF of the article. Lazer Works has a short kit available from the plans I supplied. It's on my list of "gotta build it soon", I'm hoping to get to it this fall. There was one on display at the WRAM show this year, it sure got me excited about building it.

FB

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RE: F-8 Crusader build - 4/3/2009 5:35 PM   
8178



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Status: offline 		I have the MAN plans too! Are you going to do the egg crate wing ribs?

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RE: F-8 Crusader build - 4/3/2009 6:19 PM   
rainedave



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Status: offline 		I once built a couple of free flight models using the interlocking "egg-crate" method. I did it by cutting the ribs as rectangular blanks. I used plywood root and tip rib templates and a long, straight sanding bar. It's similar to the way you make foam cores, except, instead of using a hot wire, you use the sanding bar to bring the rib blanks down to shape. When the sanding bar rides smoothly along the two templates the wing is done.

David

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RE: F-8 Crusader build - 4/3/2009 6:35 PM   
Free Bird


 

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Status: offline 		I've already got ribs cut for "normal" construction and they have tabs on the T/E for the building board. I've thought about doing a wing as Dave describes, but figured that I could build a wing quicker the other way.

FB

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RE: F-8 Crusader build - 4/3/2009 7:14 PM   
8178



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quote:

ORIGINAL: rainedave

I once built a couple of free flight models using the interlocking "egg-crate" method. I did it by cutting the ribs as rectangular blanks. I used plywood root and tip rib templates and a long, straight sanding bar. It's similar to the way you make foam cores, except, instead of using a hot wire, you use the sanding bar to bring the rib blanks down to shape. When the sanding bar rides smoothly along the two templates the wing is done.

David


I believe that’s how Ralph did his.

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RE: F-8 Crusader build - 4/3/2009 7:18 PM   
8178



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quote:

ORIGINAL: Free Bird

I've already got ribs cut for "normal" construction and they have tabs on the T/E for the building board. I've thought about doing a wing as Dave describes, but figured that I could build a wing quicker the other way.

FB


You’ve got to start a build thread! I’d like to build one too but I’d need to side mount the engine. I’ve had inverted engines and didn’t like them and the side mounted engine would provide some space for retracts.



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RE: F-8 Crusader build - 4/3/2009 8:45 PM   
Free Bird


 

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You’ve got to start a build thread! I’d like to build one too but I’d need to side mount the engine. I’ve had inverted engines and didn’t like them and the side mounted engine would provide some space for retracts.


You know something, I was looking at the plans and thinking the same thing. Retracts on this model would really clean it up. A build thread later in the year isn't out of the question. As far as the engine goes, I think a 4-stroke would be the way to go, mostly for the muffler as it's more compact.

FB

< Message edited by Free Bird -- 4/3/2009 8:46 PM >

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RE: F-8 Crusader build - 4/3/2009 11:02 PM   
8178



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Status: offline 		I think Ralph would smile down on you if it had a big old pipe slung under the wing and a 61 up front.

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RE: F-8 Crusader build - 4/4/2009 1:20 AM   
N1EDM



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Status: offline 		Does anyone know if the original 1965 MAN article is still available?

Bob

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RE: F-8 Crusader build - 4/4/2009 2:09 AM   
Free Bird


 

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quote:

I think Ralph would smile down on you if it had a big old pipe slung under the wing and a 61 up front.


No doubt!!

quote:

Does anyone know if the original 1965 MAN article is still available?

Bob


PM me your addy and I'm fire off the article to ya!

FB

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