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RE: Best scale photo! - 1/23/2013 2:49 AM

RodanAZ

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quote:

ORIGINAL: abufletcher

In this case, the conversion to a black and white (or sepia) photo doesn't do anything to enhance the realism. In fact, when googling the Hughes 500 (first flown in 1963) I couldn't find a single image in B&W.

Not to mention the two bladed head that's way too big, tail rotor on the wrong side, skids not even close to scale, etc. Apparently you didn't read Mark's reply to your first post?

Why is it so hard for people to comprehend this thread?

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RE: Best scale photo! - 1/23/2013 3:07 AM

Tony Iannucelli

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You missed these. Not converted.

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RE: Best scale photo! - 1/23/2013 3:09 AM

WacoNut

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And some people wonder why guys get bent out of shape posting here

I probablay shouldn't post but::::::: Guys post their best effort at a pic of a model and all they catch is alot of grief. Why not change the tilte to best pictures by pro photographers of scale contest winning models only.

They may not have the best camera, best model but they are posting their best effort. Constructive criticism is one thing but too many guys here take it too far.

It is a shame as I really enjoyed stopping in here and looking at some of these fine models and pictures that are posted by Neil and others. I cannot stand to see some of the comments directed at individuals who posted a pic to share with others that they perceive as being a good representation of an aircraft and just get slammed for it. I will not open this thread again.

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RE: Best scale photo! - 1/23/2013 4:00 AM

abufletcher

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Should it just be like a YouTube video with all comments disabled? Photos only? The good, bad, and the ugly?

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Post #: 4904

RE: Best scale photo! - 1/23/2013 4:21 AM

sebo

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I enjoy the thread.......on helicopters, I know nothing.....you can fool me all the time.
On aircraft, I know a little.
On tall grass.....I know a lot.
On large buildings.....I know a lot.............
Weeds too, are my forte.
Some of these photos are absolutely superb in my opinion....that's just my opinion
An aircraft with a modeler hold it or standing above it taking a picture.......well, not so cool for this thread.........put it in the scale model thread......it allows any kind of picture of a scale plane, even if it is sitting on the roof of a car.
I like to see your stuff there too.

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RE: Best scale photo! - 1/23/2013 4:57 AM

RodanAZ

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quote:

ORIGINAL: WacoNut

And some people wonder why guys get bent out of shape posting here
I probablay shouldn't post but::::::: Guys post their best effort at a pic of a model and all they catch is alot of grief.

I would argue that they aren't making any effort at all: either to understand the point of the thread, or to post a scale picture of a scale model.

I equate these posts with someone walking up to a group having a conversation and butting in without even knowing what the conversation is about, and then trying to change the subject. And IMHO, that's just rude.

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RE: Best scale photo! - 1/23/2013 5:41 AM

Chad Veich

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quote:

ORIGINAL: RodanAZ

quote:

ORIGINAL: WacoNut

And some people wonder why guys get bent out of shape posting here
I probablay shouldn't post but::::::: Guys post their best effort at a pic of a model and all they catch is alot of grief.

I would argue that they aren't making any effort at all: either to understand the point of the thread, or to post a scale picture of a scale model.

I equate these posts with someone walking up to a group having a conversation and butting in without even knowing what the conversation is about, and then trying to change the subject. And IMHO, that's just rude.

Very well put Rodan, right on the money.

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RE: Best scale photo! - 1/23/2013 6:35 AM

nitro wing

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You guys are hard ass and have rules. I like it.

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RE: Best scale photo! - 1/23/2013 7:48 AM

Spuetz

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I guess there are some points that lead to people posting out-of-place pictures:

Most forum threads don't have very strong rules. People simply don't expect rules of that kind.
The digital world is very fast paced. The attention span of many has shrunk to split seconds (with all the attention problems that come with it - especially for kids). This leads to newbies very quickly scanning the thread, thinkig: Oh, nice scale models - great! I'll post mine here... Very few new posters take the time to actually understand this thread. this is in part because they don't expect that anything is to be understood (point 1)
The unexplicable urge to "blog" - to tell the whole world what you think, do, have. I am aware of the fact that I am an example of this as I write this. However, I will never understand the "what are you doing right now" posts on fb. Frankly: Who cares?

so, lets continue to be both strict and understanding at the same time... I enjoy this thread tremendously. Can't wait for spring to come, so I can take out models and camera and enter this friendly competition again... (yes i know, I could take pictures in the snow. However, the "flight season feelings" completly go to sleep here in Germany when the days are short and the weather is grey, cold, miserable. Has anyone ever taken a true scale workshop picture? Now, here's a challenge...

Cheers,

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RE: Best scale photo! - 1/23/2013 11:30 AM

Spuetz

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Guys, I need your help with that third Bf109 shot, the one from left, behind. What tells me that this is a model? The longer I look at it the more I think this is the original! Is it in the end? What gives it away as a model? If nothing and if it is a model: Absolutely fantastic shot - the best yet...The way the tailweel's slightly bent under the weight of the tail! the background, the coarseness of the tarmac...

ah, found one thing: (did i?): the rudder linkage! Or am I mistaken and it was that way?

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RE: Best scale photo! - 1/23/2013 12:01 PM

abufletcher

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I've been looking at actual old photos of the EIII and playing around in photoshop. The second one is the actual old photo for comparison purposes. And the third is the original old photo run through the same photo-processing as the first image of the model. My pilot is too large for an EIII...makes it look like a 3/4 size replica. The 1/6 scale Dragon action figures look great for the smaller fighters but the EIII was a larger aircraft...much larger than, for example, the DrI.

From a photography point of view, we need to keep are few things in mind about WWI era photos. First, most photos would have been taken with large format plate cameras. Large format negatives (up to 8x10") result in almost no grain and a very smooth gradation of tones. If we see grain in an old photo it's probably because it's an extreme enlargement of a small section of a larger photo. Second, many of the large format lenses used at that time were a bit on the "soft" side...even when focused perfectly. So modern lenses can look overly sharp. Also, the film used at that time was strongly "othrochromatic" which means that it was more sensitive to certain "colors" than others. Specifically, it had good sensitivity for blues (which is why the skies were often washed out) and poor sensitive for reds (which could make yellows and reddish tones) look almost black. In the middle photo the diagonal stripe ahead of the white field on the fuselage was almost certainly some shade of blue, which the film rendered lighter than the overall "yellow" of the German doped linen.

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RE: Best scale photo! - 1/23/2013 6:27 PM

acerc

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"Lets post our best "SCALE" photo of our favorite plane.
Post as many photos that you like, but they MUST be SCALE! (They MUST look like a shot of the real plane)."

The OP does not mention photoshop or anyother program. So I would have to assume an actual effert in positioning.
The OP also does not state the aircraft has to be scale, nice would do. Once again I assume.
With all the technology today one would not even need to leave there shop, only have a good program and ability to use it to create what this thread's current requirements are.
My how this thread has changed.
Nothing like it started out as.

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Post #: 4912

RE: Best scale photo! - 1/23/2013 6:27 PM

Idigbo

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Spuetz

Guys, I need your help with that third Bf109 shot, the one from left, behind. What tells me that this is a model? The longer I look at it the more I think this is the original! Is it in the end? What gives it away as a model? If nothing and if it is a model: Absolutely fantastic shot - the best yet...The way the tailweel's slightly bent under the weight of the tail! the background, the coarseness of the tarmac...

ah, found one thing: (did i?): the rudder linkage! Or am I mistaken and it was that way?

You are mistaken Spuetz, the full size 109E had the rudder linkage in the same place, I think most 109's had it in the same place come to that!

I love this thread more than any other, both for the right photographs and for the wrong ones. I find it amusing that sometimes the point of the whole thread is missed but do feel that there is a right and wrong way to explain why a particular model or image doesn't fit the criteria without any upset.

Ian.

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Post #: 4913

RE: Best scale photo! - 1/23/2013 6:40 PM

David Bathe

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You certainly dont need a hyper scale model or high tech photo equipment to participate.

There are many examples over pages that prove the point.

At the begining of the thread there are a couple of great shots of a simple great planes lear jet. Straight forward sports scale stuff.

The way it was pictured though, very low, straight on the nose, tight crop gave a fabulous illusion... An iconic motive that we have seen hundreds of times in full sized aero magazines, Forbes front cover etc. Brilliant imo.

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Post #: 4914

RE: Best scale photo! - 1/23/2013 6:59 PM

nine o nine

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My B-17. Mitch

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Post #: 4915

RE: Best scale photo! - 1/23/2013 7:35 PM

Dwhart24

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DSC_4299 copy by dwhart24, on Flickr

DSC_2703 copy by dwhart24, on Flickr

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Post #: 4916

RE: Best scale photo! - 1/23/2013 8:56 PM

mark fadely

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Good thoughts guys. We are almost at the 10 year anniversary for this thread! It is still developing and I was wondering what the posting statistics would look like over the years. You may find this interesting.

Total posts = 4900 + that's an easy one to see.

Almost 200 pages

Total posts at 100 pages = 2400+ at 12/2007

Thread started by Mustang51 on 1/26/2003

10 year anniversary 1/26/2013

10 years with 4900 total posts = 1.34 posts per day

In the month of January 2013 there have been 225 posts for an average of 9.78 posts per day.

Even with all the controversy it seems this 10-year conversation is still very alive.

I have enjoyed my time here and happy anniversary to the thread.

David - great shots once again! Love the retracting gear.

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RE: Best scale photo! - 1/23/2013 9:34 PM

abufletcher

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quote:

ORIGINAL: acerc
The OP does not mention photoshop or anyother program.

I wanted to add a few comments about the use of photoshop. Firstly, there's the level of "crop and tweak" and that's being done on almost every one of the best photos on this thread. I consider this just part of good photography in a digital age. Second, there's using photoshop (or other software) to create the look of an older photo. Often this involves converting to black and white, but it might also be messing with the colors a bit (as on those Bf109 shots). You can even use the following website to "make old photos" automatically. Just browse to the image on your computer than click on the button below that.

http://labs.wanokoto.jp/olds

These sorts of stylized photos aren't everyone's cup of tea. Rather than trying to make the MODEL look like a full-scale aircraft (though they usually attempt to do that as well) they are actually trying to create the look of an actual old photo. This might be related to the type of film used or even involve "weathering" effects to the photo. This would be one interpretation of "scale photo." WWI models can often benefit from this treatment since there are no original color photos. But of course, the world was just as much "in color" back in 1914 as it is today, so you could argue that we should be trying to photograph our models as they would have appeared at that time. One thing's for sure though. You can't make a poor photo of a poor model good by converting it to black and white (or sepia).

Finally, there's using photoshop to ALTER/EDIT/REMOVE elements in a photo. This is perhaps the most contentious use. Is it OK to digitally remove servo linkages and other non-scale features of a model? Would it be OK to ADD panels lines where none existed on the model? Personally, I don't like this. In my mind that's just cheating. It's making the model better than it actually is. But what about "zapping out" distracting items in the background? Or digitally altering the foreground?

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RE: Best scale photo! - 1/23/2013 9:41 PM

abufletcher

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quote:

ORIGINAL: acerc
"Lets post our best ''SCALE'' photo of our favorite plane. Post as many photos that you like, but they MUST be SCALE! (They MUST look like a shot of the real plane)."

Unfortunately, this has become sort of like interpreting what the "founding fathers" intended 200+ years ago with "the right to bear arms."

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RE: Best scale photo! - 1/23/2013 10:11 PM

SDCrashmaster

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Excellent point about PS. I had composed the following offline earlier, as I didn't want to time out, and I offered my same thoughts which were spurred by the comment of PS gladly accepted here...

I think that some of the ultra scale nitpicks are a bit much. An appropriate image is one that looks like a full-size, both in it's subject matter and environment, to the average, yet astute viewer.
I've been watching genre experts getting way to critical over great "thread essence" images that the rest of us think are great. And as far as Photoshop not being a dirty word here...that isn't fully true.
Using PS to make your image look "old timey", richer, sharpened, or even composited to a different background has become acceptable, but altering the physical components of the subject model ala removing things like antennae, or adding door hinges, panel lines, rivets or weathering when there wasn't any, is not as accepted. If your going to do that stuff, and it's done so well that we're not the wiser, you probably should not talk about it as having to digitally alter the subject model to make it look real is not in the spirit of this thread. This thread is about photographing a model so that the final image fools us into thinking we're looking at a 1:1 photo. If the model is "not up to snuff", then it won't make a good subject for this thread, unless shot at a distance, that doesn't reveal it's "not up to snuff-ness". Aerial photos, although harder to get without great camera gear, have an advantage in that there is usually nothing but sky to signify scale. Ground shots, although easier to shoot, bring a whole new level of difficulty in that nearly everything in the image fights against your intended deception. I love the great aerial images posted by the top photographers in this thread, but I do miss the staged surface images that are all too few and far between.
There is not enough of that going on here (planning, building scale accessories if necessary, etc., then bustin' your hump to get that perfect photo). That to me is exactly what the OP intended. If this was "Best Scale Boat Photos"...we would be looking for this!

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Post #: 4920

RE: Best scale photo! - 1/23/2013 10:35 PM

abufletcher

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SDCrashmaster
If this was ''Best Scale Boat Photos''...we would be looking for this!

Of if it were the Best Scale Car/House Photos" it might look like this:

http://www.telovation.com/articles/amazing-miniature-city.html

While I like the great aerial photos of great models as much as the next guy, I must admit I'm partial to ground photos.

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RE: Best scale photo! - 1/23/2013 10:55 PM

abufletcher

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SDCrashmaster
I think that some of the ultra scale nitpicks are a bit much. An appropriate image is one that looks like a full-size, both in it's subject matter and environment, to the average, yet astute viewer.

On the other hand, comments by "subject experts" are really the only comments that matter in terms of providing constructive criticism. What does it matter if I "like" some P-47 photo, if I don't know anything about P-47s (which I don't). Likewise, a model that might appeal to non-WWI guys may make the true WWI guys collective skins crawl.

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RE: Best scale photo! - 1/23/2013 11:02 PM

SDCrashmaster

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I'm talking about things like "It could have fooled me except the oil cooler door was too far forward". I seriously don't think that is the intent here. It's about putting in work and causing deception.

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RE: Best scale photo! - 1/23/2013 11:07 PM

SDCrashmaster

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RE: "Best Scale House/Car Photos"...I can almost guarantee you that those pictures are exactly what the OP would have envisioned, but an aviation environment of course. After all, what really is over-the-top. Why not build a 1:12 hangar facade, or a portion of a 1:7 scale carrier deck?

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RE: Best scale photo! - 1/23/2013 11:13 PM

mark fadely

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In addition to the basic photoshop actions such as sharpen, brighten, contrast, etc, I would like to see some all-out artistic illistrations presented here from time to time. I don't think a seperate forum would be supported by those types of images. What I am talking about is still using the scale model image, but changing the photo's environment like Fletch was eluding to. Maybe it would be taking a warbird and putting it in a battle scene. We have seen beautiful paintings of aircraft and this would be a composite of a photo and a scene that is then artistically combined. I for one would like to give it a shot. If you guys think it would dillute the integrety of the thread then i'll pass.

< Message edited by mark fadely -- 1/23/2013 11:50 PM >

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