RE: OS engines overrated?

RE: OS engines overrated?
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RE: OS engines overrated? - 12/15/2006 3:56:00 AM

blw

Posts: 4569
Joined: 3/15/2004
From: Auburn, AL, USA
Status: offline

Richard,

He may have not had it tuned right.

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Post #: 51

RE: OS engines overrated? - 12/15/2006 5:16:57 PM

Matthew Allen

Posts: 160
Joined: 9/6/2005
From: Bofferdange, LUXEMBOURG
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sport_Pilot

Matthew,
Here is an article of some of the more inovative Fox engines.

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3819/is_199711/ai_n8783099

I have no trouble believing that Fox was innovative, but I have yet to see evidence indicating that OS copied them. What aspects of engine design do you think OS learned from Fox?

Matthew

(in reply to Sport_Pilot)

Post #: 52

RE: OS engines overrated? - 12/15/2006 6:49:02 PM

Sport_Pilot

Posts: 7727
Joined: 1/21/2002
From: Acworth, GA, USA
Status: offline

quote:

I have no trouble believing that Fox was innovative, but I have yet to see evidence indicating that OS copied them. What aspects of engine design do you think OS learned from Fox?

Did you not read where I said the OS .35 Stunt was a copy of the Fox .35 Stunt except it had a four bolt back plate? Here is what Duke said in his autobiography about OS and other imports back when they flooded the market. I think he was very fare and true about their product.

In 1982, I believe, our government passed what was called the Kennedy Round of Tariff
Reductions. At this time any foreign model airplane motor coming into this country had a 38
percent duty attached to it. For this reason, the imported motors were not considered to be
serious competition to the domestic manufacturers. Boy, that Kennedy Tariff Reduction changed
all of that! Importers blossomed on every street corner. While most of them were not as
advanced technically as our motors, they did have a major price advantage. Shortly, every
market niche that I could find quickly had a copy, and on many of these copies they corrected
our mistakes and had done a little better.

In 1964, business had dwindled to virtually nothing. We weren't selling enough even to pay our
overhead. One day I took my assembly lead man aside and told him that it was going to be up to
him to run the model engine business the best he could because I had to go out and find a way to
earn a living. I started running around the country trying to hustle job shop business. I got a job
from International Harvester, in Memphis, plus two or three local jobs."

Note the 1982 date is an obvious typo as this was the tarriff bill from the conservative Democratic President Kennedy. It is alos out of place stuck between 1959 and 1964. So I think it was supposed to be 1962.

Take a close look at some of the OS engines of the 50's through early 60's. Some look a lot like the Fox engines.

http://www.osengines.com/history/osm640/osm-1949-29.jpg

< Message edited by Sport_Pilot -- 12/15/2006 7:22:18 PM >

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Post #: 53

RE: OS engines overrated? - 12/15/2006 8:09:11 PM

bla bla

Posts: 1580
Joined: 9/19/2002
From: Oslo, NORWAY
Status: offline

OK OK... lets say FOX invented it all... everything.... nobody else contributed anything... clever, clever FOX.

So what?

The question is whether OS are great engines.

Or was that question answered and the case closed on page 1?
You know, I believe it was.

That's no distraction form the fact the Mr Fox was a very clever and inovative guy.
What is shamefull is that nobody took him seriously... or at least developed and mass materialize his ideas locally. It took the Jap's to do that.
You lost a model engine designer/producer.
The British lost their entire Car Industry!

< Message edited by bla bla -- 12/15/2006 8:16:51 PM >

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BR blabla

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Post #: 54

RE: OS engines overrated? - 12/15/2006 8:23:00 PM

Flyboy Dave

Posts: 13458
Joined: 3/20/2002
From: San Bernardino County, CA, USA
Status: online

True....let's get back on topic.

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A mechanic says..."Oh yeah, watch this".
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Post #: 55

RE: OS engines overrated? - 12/16/2006 4:53:04 AM

Ed Cregger

Posts: 7744
Joined: 1/31/2002
From: Ringgold, GA, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sport_Pilot

quote:

I have no trouble believing that Fox was innovative, but I have yet to see evidence indicating that OS copied them. What aspects of engine design do you think OS learned from Fox?

Did you not read where I said the OS .35 Stunt was a copy of the Fox .35 Stunt except it had a four bolt back plate? Here is what Duke said in his autobiography about OS and other imports back when they flooded the market. I think he was very fare and true about their product.

In 1982, I believe, our government passed what was called the Kennedy Round of Tariff
Reductions. At this time any foreign model airplane motor coming into this country had a 38
percent duty attached to it. For this reason, the imported motors were not considered to be
serious competition to the domestic manufacturers. Boy, that Kennedy Tariff Reduction changed
all of that! Importers blossomed on every street corner. While most of them were not as
advanced technically as our motors, they did have a major price advantage. Shortly, every
market niche that I could find quickly had a copy, and on many of these copies they corrected
our mistakes and had done a little better.

In 1964, business had dwindled to virtually nothing. We weren't selling enough even to pay our
overhead. One day I took my assembly lead man aside and told him that it was going to be up to
him to run the model engine business the best he could because I had to go out and find a way to
earn a living. I started running around the country trying to hustle job shop business. I got a job
from International Harvester, in Memphis, plus two or three local jobs."

Note the 1982 date is an obvious typo as this was the tarriff bill from the conservative Democratic President Kennedy. It is alos out of place stuck between 1959 and 1964. So I think it was supposed to be 1962.

Take a close look at some of the OS engines of the 50's through early 60's. Some look a lot like the Fox engines.

http://www.osengines.com/history/osm640/osm-1949-29.jpg

----------------

Was this autobiography of Duke Fox a magazine article or a book? If a book, do you have the ISDN number or the title? I would love to read it. TIA

Ed Cregger

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Artisan

"Flying models since the Fifties - I'll get the hang of this yet!!!"

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Post #: 56

RE: OS engines overrated? - 12/16/2006 4:59:03 AM

Ed Cregger

Posts: 7744
Joined: 1/31/2002
From: Ringgold, GA, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Flyboy Dave

True....let's get back on topic.

-----------------

I would say that yes, OS engines are great. Ever since Ed Thompson gave me that old crashed Ambroid Charger (1966-67) with a mud-caked, but otherwise new, OS Max .15 R/C engine in the nose, I have loved each and every OS engine that I have owned.

However, this does not mean that OS is superior to every other engine brand. It does not imply that OS engines out performs every other engine brand.

It does mean that it is reasonable to expect that an OS engine will run very well, even when new out of the box (since the lapped piston engines disappeared). It does mean that break-in time will be toward the low end of the industries' average. While not the fastest engines (most powerful), power output for the class of the engine will be toward the high side, but seldom at the top of the heap. It also means that you are going to pay extra here in the USA simply because people are willing to pay extra for an OS engine.

Ed Cregger

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Artisan

"Flying models since the Fifties - I'll get the hang of this yet!!!"

(in reply to Flyboy Dave)

Post #: 57

RE: OS engines overrated? - 12/16/2006 5:58:53 AM

Rcpilot

Posts: 6556
Joined: 3/20/2002
From: Arvada, CO, USA
Status: offline

I've found OS engines to be reliable and user friendly. I never had a peeling liner.

But, I haven't bought an OS engine in about 5yrs because I think they are overpriced. They are decent sport engines. That is all. They make a couple race horses, but for the most part, 98% of what they make is just average power--sport engines. They are just mildly ported sport engines for the everyday user. And thats 99% of us in this hobby.

I've had great luck with most of the Asian and European engines. I've run all the old ST big cats at one point or another. I've run the Tower engines and the new ST engines with success. I've run the TT 4-stroke 91 (great engine) and the 46 Pro. Had good luck with most all of them.

The only European engine I ever had trouble with was the MDS 1.28 and the 2.18 . I had the .68 and it ran like a scalded cat. I have an extremely low opinion of the 1.48 and the 2.18.

If I wanted a really powerful engine, I'd buy a Jett or an MVVS.

Had a K&B .48 once. Hated it. It would run 10 minutes and deadstick. Didn't matter what I did to the needles or how many times I replumbed the tank. I got to the point where I would set my timer for 7 minutes and then land. I was new to the hobby and didn't have enough money to buy my first 46FX for about 3 months. Hated that "screamin' 48"

The only thing screaming was ME --everytime it deadsticked.

I'm stuck on Tower engines right now. I own 3 glow engines right now. The rest of my stuff is gas. I have 3 of the TH .75 engines and like them very much. I've probably owned 50 glow engines in my 8yrs in the hobby. Just got rid of all the glow engines about 4yrs ago when I discovered gas.

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Post #: 58

RE: OS engines overrated? - 12/17/2006 2:35:50 AM

Sport_Pilot

Posts: 7727
Joined: 1/21/2002
From: Acworth, GA, USA
Status: offline

Ed,
I ripped off of the AMA site from his Hall of Fame nomination. Its also on the Flitelinesolutions website.

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Post #: 59

RE: OS engines overrated? - 12/17/2006 2:58:59 AM

Ed Cregger

Posts: 7744
Joined: 1/31/2002
From: Ringgold, GA, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sport_Pilot

Ed,
I ripped off of the AMA site from his Hall of Fame nomination. Its also on the Flitelinesolutions website.

---------------

Gotcha. Thanks.

Ed Cregger

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Artisan

"Flying models since the Fifties - I'll get the hang of this yet!!!"

(in reply to Sport_Pilot)

Post #: 60

RE: OS engines overrated? - 12/17/2006 4:45:12 AM

blw

Posts: 4569
Joined: 3/15/2004
From: Auburn, AL, USA
Status: offline

I guess I'm kicking a beehive here, but after owning two Evolution 2 strokes I would have to say that OS is a bit over rated and over priced for what you get. Good engines, yes. But there are some other engines out there that are better and priced better, both 2 and 4 stroke. Then, there are those engines by many manufacturers that are just good engines. I would say the OS .50SX and 1.20 Surpasses are good ones from what I've seen.

_____________________________

The ultimate responsibility of pilots is to fulfill the dreams of the countless millions who can only stare skyward...and wish.

(in reply to Ed Cregger)

Post #: 61

RE: OS engines overrated? - 12/17/2006 4:58:33 AM

superfly13_69

Posts: 53
Joined: 4/18/2003
From: Freeburg, IL, USA
Status: offline

I know I've had a 46FX for over 3 years now and it's still a big ol' beast. I've adjusted the needles about 3 times over this past season, only because of temp changes. Does it ever quit? Only after running it out of gas!! 4 Strokes is another story, though. I'd say saito is the way to go for the 4-poppers. The Surpass series is generally less powerful & heavier than their Saito brothren. But as far as overal quality, user-friendliness, and being easy to work with, OS 2-strokes got 'em all beat. And they aren't THAT expensive. You want cheap, go and get a Super Tigre or a Fox, or the Tower special. You want a solid engine you can trust in the air, OS.

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Spydr

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Post #: 62

RE: OS engines overrated? - 12/17/2006 5:04:18 AM

Sport_Pilot

Posts: 7727
Joined: 1/21/2002
From: Acworth, GA, USA
Status: offline

quote:

You want cheap, go and get a Super Tigre or a Fox,

A Fox is cheap? Only when compared to OS prices.

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Post #: 63

RE: OS engines overrated? - 12/17/2006 5:38:10 AM

chashint

Posts: 912
Joined: 1/1/2002
From: Rowlett, TX, USA
Status: offline

No doubt about it that OS is a class act right out of the box.

However, with enough running/break-in time on the Magnum, it will acquire many of the good running habits of the OS. If time is more important than money, buy the OS. If you're a retired old goat like me and you like tinkering with engines anyway, the Magnum can be a good buy. Truthfully, by the time you get done putting fuel through the Magnum for extra break-in running, the price difference has narrowed considerably between it and the OS. I still buy Magnums because I like breaking-in engines, if that makes any sense.

One thing we must keep in mind is that eventually Sanye' will figure out how to bestow OS's marvelous out-of-the-box running characteristics upon their engine products. We have to keep our eyes open to realize that it has happened already - when it happens.

OS and folks were always a class act. I hope they continue to lead the way in making great sport engines in the future. Conversely, I wish Sanye the same success.

Ed Cregger

[/quote]

The last two Magnum four strokes I have purchased were ready to fly on the second tank of fuel, this is the design with the crancase tube running to the carb. Now if they would just taper the high speed needle a little bit more they would be perfect.

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regards,
Charlie

(in reply to Ed Cregger)