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RE: OS engines overrated? - 12/18/2006 7:27:45 AM   
DarZeelon



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quote:

ORIGINAL: MyWay

Its not that OS engines are over priced its that other engines are under priced. They are literally giving them away.



No, they're not!

The actual cost to manufacture a $100 street price engine is $5-10.
If you were to be at the gate of the factory, the manufacturer will still gain if you get it for 75% off the street price.

All the rest is profit for all the middle-people.


The LHS/Dealer who sells it to you gains 20-40% gross, depending on how strong and large it is.
The manufacturers would, in singles, prefer to sell directly to the customer, so they pocket all the gain, which after all the overhead remains over 80% of the price.

In large amounts they sell to big distributors at ~50-60% off.

But gain and mark-up are the essence of the American way...


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       Post #: 76

RE: OS engines overrated? - 12/18/2006 12:09:37 PM   
Flyer95


 

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quote:

Dar,
The actual cost to manufacture a $100 street price engine is $5-10.


Dar,
Do you really have those numbers or is it just a guess?
A MVVS40 can be had for less than 100$ here but still I don think the company can manufacture it for less than 25$.
It takes several minutes to only manufacture the crankshaft for an engine and then the surface treatments, anodizing, hard chrome, crankcase tooling, assembly, packaging ...... ......you see the minutes just runs away. And the material costs alone is more than 5$. High quality manufacturing equipment is very expensive no mather where in the world you live.
The Swiss made WIB front/rear bearings must also cost a few bucks?

(in reply to DarZeelon)
       Post #: 77

RE: OS engines overrated? - 12/18/2006 1:59:43 PM   
DarZeelon



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Amir,


Maybe MVVS is the exception that proves the rule.

When bought in number, I am sure even WIB bearings can be had for a much smaller fortune than you are accustomed to paying at most outlets. Probably under 10% of it.

Also, CNC makes manufacturing intricate parts very quickly very cheap.

Surface treatment like anodizing takes care of CNC machined parts in large numbers, so the time in each is a matter of seconds.


At least, those OS clones manufactured in China, like the Magnum/ASP/SC/SY .52XLS...
Bearings are about $0.15 and total cost to Sanye is probably as low as $3... Not $5-10.

Where do you think bearings in OS engines are made???

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       Post #: 78

RE: OS engines overrated? - 12/18/2006 2:06:55 PM   
Nerevar


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ed_Moorman

I think I can run any single engine and I have at least one of nearly every type that I fly to back that up. I own OS, Thunder Tiger, Webra, Tower, Magnum, MVVS, GMS, SK, Evo 2-strokes (and maybe a couple of others I have overlooked). On a single engine plane, they all run pretty well. The OS engines do break in quicker and seem to be easier to get dialed in. Several of my OSs have never had the low end needle touched.

However, when it comes to multi-engine, I am OS all the way. A couple of my early twins had Magnum .52XLS engines and GMS .47 engines. I just could not keep both engines dialed in and running without messing with them every flight. I finally bought 3 more OS .46AXs-I already had one-and all my problems went away. Pour in the fuel, flip and fly. Did I mention they hand start easily?

I see a lot of trainers at my field. One lady who flies with us-she has her own equipment, engines and planes separate from her husband's-has an OS .40LA in a Kadet. I was talking to her today as she was shooting landings and she said she has never had a dead stick with the OS. That's not what I see on other trainers.

Bottom line is you pay your money and take your choice. I just bought 3 SK engines, 2 .91s and a .50, so I'm not all OS. The SKs seem to run very well, are dirt cheap and turn a big prop. But, in the final analysis, I think to sell as many engines as OS does, they have to be making a really good product. You can't sell an inferior product on reputation this long. Neither can you command the higher price unless you give the purchaser what he perceives as value for his money.


I put in bold the parts of your message I'm replying to.

The opposite has happened at our field. The one engine that needed A LOT of idle mixture adjustment was my friends OS 46fx. He got the plane with engine and radio already installed at a swap meet super cheap.

It's not the new ax, it's the older fx. There isn't anything wrong with the engine. It runs fine now and powers the plane great.

It was just that the idle mixture was so far off that for a while everyone thought it wasn't going to ever be right and there were some thoughts of trying a different engine, or at least a different carburetor. But those OS carburetors are E X P EN S I V E! as, I think, someone has already said and a new OS engine costs more than he paid for the whole rig.

Since he didn't have another engine for the plane and couldn't afford another engine, he continued to fly and adjust, and fly and adjust until we FINALLY got it to idle long enough to land without quiting.

The thing that contributed to the difficulty in getting the mixture set was the very tiny mixture screw that was down inside the throttle piece. I have a jewelers screwdriver set and one of those small screwdrivers was needed to adjust it and it was still a tight fit. I don't think anyone had ever touched the adjustment before, simply because it was so hard to get to.

He got pretty good at dead sticks.
But that's in the past now. It runs great now and doesn't quit on him, unless he runs out of fuel.

So, the engine was, and is, good. It was just the carburetor out of adjustment.

I can't comment on any multi engine planes, because there aren't any at the field.

Most at our club ether fly a high wing trainer type plane, or they crash a lot.

NI

< Message edited by Nerevar -- 12/18/2006 2:08:02 PM >

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       Post #: 79

RE: OS engines overrated? - 12/18/2006 3:14:23 PM   
Flyer95


 

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quote:

Dar,
Where do you think bearings in OS engines are made???


Dar,
I did removed the backplate on my OS91FX and 120AX when they where new to check and they where clean on the inside. I could also see on the rear bearings outer race "Made in Japan".

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RE: OS engines overrated? - 12/18/2006 5:11:55 PM   
DarZeelon



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Amir,


I know for a fact that to reduce production costs, some Japanese bearing manufacturers have moved their production to China.
I know about EZO. I cannot be sure about NTN and NSK.

If it its a reputable Japanese company and the bearings are actually made for it in China, will it say 'Made in Japan', or 'Made in China'?

I cannot be sure.

But even those Chinese bearings are no longer inferior to Japan's production.

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       Post #: 81

RE: OS engines overrated? - 12/18/2006 6:09:09 PM   
MyWay


 

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If the price of model airplane engines kept up with inflation, yes they would quite expensive. My latest water bill was 110$. Could have bought an OS 46 ax for the price of my water bill!

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RE: OS engines overrated? - 12/19/2006 12:57:53 AM   
MikeL



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Put a little perspective on that by pulling out a Tower catalog from a decade and a half ago, and make sure you're comparing apples to apples. The prices of engines and kits have gone up considerably over that time span. The Sig Mid-Star that I bought six years ago cost me $54, I believe. Now from Tower it's $85. The prices on most similar consumer goods have held constant or gone down, yet costs in our hobby have gone the other way in a rather dramatic fashion.

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RE: OS engines overrated? - 12/19/2006 2:49:41 AM   
blw



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To confirm what Dar said, it was a business saying years ago that you had to manufacture something for 10% of the selling cost to make money.

We may pay a lot of middleman prices here, but in other countries taxes drive up prices.

< Message edited by blw -- 12/19/2006 2:50:31 AM >


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RE: OS engines overrated? - 12/19/2006 3:19:50 AM   
carrellh



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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ed Cregger

I see now that Peak Model makes absolutely no reference to the Sanye (ASP) 1.80 on their website. Nothing, nada, not at all. I wish I had made my purchase and kept my mouth shut about the great price. See what happens when you try to share good pricing information in this wonderful world of "free trade"?

Ed Cregger



As of 12/18/06, peak shows 5 units of the 1.80 in stock:
http://www.peakmodel.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=7_37&products_id=220

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RE: OS engines overrated? - 12/19/2006 4:59:34 PM   
p-51@charter.net


 

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have several os 2 strokes. all are powerful and trouble free except fx .91 Had 2 of those -both worthless!

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RE: OS engines overrated? - 12/19/2006 6:30:04 PM   
Ed Cregger



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quote:

ORIGINAL: carrellh

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ed Cregger

I see now that Peak Model makes absolutely no reference to the Sanye (ASP) 1.80 on their website. Nothing, nada, not at all. I wish I had made my purchase and kept my mouth shut about the great price. See what happens when you try to share good pricing information in this wonderful world of "free trade"?

Ed Cregger



As of 12/18/06, peak shows 5 units of the 1.80 in stock:
http://www.peakmodel.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=7_37&products_id=220



------------------


Whew! Thanks, Carrell.

I was afraid that the Powers-That-Be had pressured Sanye in some form or another to not let others sell them for $100 less (not exact) than another brand sells the same engine here in the US of A. Not that I don't like the folks in the USA, I do, but just not $100 worth. Maybe $25 worth. Okay, to have a warranty in the US, it would be worth $40 to $45 over the Peak Model price, but no more! <G>


Ed Cregger



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RE: OS engines overrated? - 12/19/2006 11:30:59 PM   
Flyer95


 

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quote:

Dar,
If it its a reputable Japanese company and the bearings are actually made for it in China, will it say 'Made in Japan', or 'Made in China'?

I cannot be sure.


Dar,
I would say for the reputable Japanese company it is very important to have a good reputation in the future also. If the NTN-bearings in the OS engines where "made in china" they would certainly not say NTN and " Japan" on the outer race. It is just against the Japanese quality thinking to be a liar. But if nothing is written on the bearings then they might be "made in China" or somewhere else.

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RE: OS engines overrated? - 12/20/2006 5:30:32 AM   
Motorboy



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quote:

ORIGINAL: Flyer95

It is just against the Japanese quality thinking to be a liar.


OS allready wrote ABC at box while the engine had ABN sleeve who nickel peeled off later..

Jens Eirik

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RE: OS engines overrated? - 12/20/2006 7:15:23 AM   
Flyboy Dave



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Jens is right....they lied....

....these engines were nickel plated.


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