RE: Props-More Myths Busted  
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RE: Props-More Myths Busted - 7/2/2007 12:41:25 AM   
Flyboy Dave



Posts: 13449
Joined: 3/20/2002
From: San Bernardino County, CA, USA
Status: offline 		rainedave....

....I've used most of the general sport props available to the American market over
the years. My local conditions have a lot to do with prop selection. The surface is flat
as a pancake, and hard as a rock. The main factor is the wind....it is almost always windy.
If you try to turn your plane on the ground when the wind is blowing, you will have a
blow-over and a prop strike. If you have a Master Airscrew prop....no problem. If you
have an APC prop....you better have another one, because if you don't....you're done
for the day....broken prop tip.

Prop noise is not a factor....there is nothing around for miles. I don't have any of the new
Zinger Pro series. Even though they look funny to me, they perform well.

The MAS 11-7 1/2 prop is the best prop for your K&B .61 for general sport and good speed.

FBD.

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_____________________________

An engineer says.... "That won''t work".
A mechanic says..."Oh yeah, watch this".
"Old Age, and Treachery will overcome youth and skill".
Revver Bro #4.

(in reply to rainedave)
       Post #: 301

RE: Props-More Myths Busted - 7/2/2007 1:48:25 AM   
rainedave



Posts: 5178
Joined: 7/21/2005
From: Greensboro, NC, USA
Status: offline 		Wow, FBD, I guess you don't have to worry about noise! When's the last time a tree grabbed one of your planes?

(in reply to Flyboy Dave)
       Post #: 302

RE: Props-More Myths Busted - 7/2/2007 2:43:49 AM   
Flyboy Dave



Posts: 13449
Joined: 3/20/2002
From: San Bernardino County, CA, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DarZeelon


I never encountered these phenomena, but then, the only APC props I have seen many
of are their pylon racing series and they are perfect in these respects.

.... Yet, despite your experience with some APC props that seem very inefficient, most
competitive F3A participants use them... Go figure...




.....sorry, DarZeelon....I wasn't ignoring you....I got sidetracked.

APC does very well in the racing circles....no pun intended. There was a time when Zinger props
were big in the pylon racing circles. The same thing can be said for MAS props in the States, they
were required for certain classes for the beginner classes. One of the reasons the were mandated
was because of their strength and safety issues....they don't "fly apart" in the sport classes.

Over time APC advanced their strength and quality issues, and made specialty props in the racing sizes.
They beefed up the hubs, and made the props strong enough to hold together like the wood props.

Nowadays the APC's have become the standard, and have taken over a lot of the racing stuff.
The main reason is....no one else is competing against them in the racing arena. Why bother ?
The racing prop crowd probably makes up way less than one percent of aero-model flyer's. With
the insurance and liability issues involved....why bother to compete in the tiny racing arena. The
money just isn't there.....the bottom line.

If there was a fortune to be made in that arena, there would be plenty of competition. There isn't.

The fact that APC props are big in racing perpetuates the myth that they are better in the sport
propeller arena's as well....this is perhaps the biggest "Prop Myth" around.

FBD.

_____________________________

An engineer says.... "That won''t work".
A mechanic says..."Oh yeah, watch this".
"Old Age, and Treachery will overcome youth and skill".
Revver Bro #4.

(in reply to DarZeelon)
       Post #: 303

RE: Props-More Myths Busted - 7/2/2007 2:47:55 AM   
Flyboy Dave



Posts: 13449
Joined: 3/20/2002
From: San Bernardino County, CA, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rainedave

Wow, FBD, I guess you don't have to worry about noise! When's the last time a tree grabbed one of your planes?



....a tree ??? We don't have no stinkin' trees....

_____________________________

An engineer says.... "That won''t work".
A mechanic says..."Oh yeah, watch this".
"Old Age, and Treachery will overcome youth and skill".
Revver Bro #4.

(in reply to rainedave)
       Post #: 304

RE: Props-More Myths Busted - 7/2/2007 5:36:06 AM   
XJet


 

Posts: 3454
Joined: 3/31/2003
From: Tokoroa, NEW ZEALAND
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Flyboy Dave
The MAS 11-7 1/2 prop is the best prop for your K&B .61 for general sport and good speed.


Have you tried the MAS 11x7 Scimitar?

This seems quite a bit more efficient than the regular MAS props and I've found it the absolute best for my piped TT61GP.

Youtube Video here


_____________________________

When I'm not here, I'm at RCModelReviews

(in reply to Flyboy Dave)
       Post #: 305

RE: Props-More Myths Busted - 7/9/2007 2:04:57 PM   
Flyboy Dave



Posts: 13449
Joined: 3/20/2002
From: San Bernardino County, CA, USA
Status: offline 		....yes, I have XJet....on my K&B .61 powered small Ultra Stick. I couldn't see any difference
over the MAS 11-7 1/2, in fact I preferred the regular blade MAS....I thought it was faster.

The scimitars are gaining in popularity....they do work good. I used to race a friend that had
the same plane, with a Magnum .61. He ran a 12-6 prop, so naturally I smoked his plane
big time.

The fastest my plane ever went was with an 11-8 MAS....

....but then the wing blew off in straight and level full speed flight.

FBD.

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_____________________________

An engineer says.... "That won''t work".
A mechanic says..."Oh yeah, watch this".
"Old Age, and Treachery will overcome youth and skill".
Revver Bro #4.

(in reply to XJet)
       Post #: 306

RE: Props-More Myths Busted - 7/10/2007 6:07:53 AM   
XJet


 

Posts: 3454
Joined: 3/31/2003
From: Tokoroa, NEW ZEALAND
Status: offline 		We got the radar out last weekend and my "trainer" with the TT61GP was clocked at over 110mph on the "straight and level" (even without the benefit of a tail-wind).

That's with its MAS Scimitar 11x7 :-)

_____________________________

When I'm not here, I'm at RCModelReviews

(in reply to Flyboy Dave)
       Post #: 307

RE: Props-More Myths Busted - 7/10/2007 6:25:18 AM   
Flyboy Dave



Posts: 13449
Joined: 3/20/2002
From: San Bernardino County, CA, USA
Status: offline 		....yeah, baby.....

....it looked like the plane benefited from the extra RPM the tuned pipe afforded....

FBD.

_____________________________

An engineer says.... "That won''t work".
A mechanic says..."Oh yeah, watch this".
"Old Age, and Treachery will overcome youth and skill".
Revver Bro #4.

(in reply to XJet)
       Post #: 308

RE: Props-More Myths Busted - 7/19/2007 7:16:00 AM   
Flyboy Dave



Posts: 13449
Joined: 3/20/2002
From: San Bernardino County, CA, USA
Status: offline 		......hmmmm, it doesn't look like the results of the "Great APC prop Test" has been
formalized, and is ready to post....

....that's OK....

_____________________________

An engineer says.... "That won''t work".
A mechanic says..."Oh yeah, watch this".
"Old Age, and Treachery will overcome youth and skill".
Revver Bro #4.

(in reply to Flyboy Dave)
       Post #: 309

RE: Props-More Myths Busted - 7/19/2007 12:59:15 PM   
gkamysz


 

Posts: 1576
Joined: 6/24/2003
From: Crystal Lake, IL, USA
Status: offline 		If you can wait just a bit longer, I have the time now to do what I mentioned before. In my opinion Graupner CAM props might out do all of them, but we'll see.

My plan is to test a bunch of 10x6 props. I have quite a few. I still need to acquire a MA Scimitar though, and a couple plain old wood props which I've stayed away from while I flew electric.

_____________________________

Greg

(in reply to Flyboy Dave)
       Post #: 310

RE: Props-More Myths Busted - 7/24/2007 9:55:54 PM   
yallaair



Posts: 213
Joined: 1/1/2006
From: Floro, NORWAY
Status: offline 		Today I compared one APC 14x6 and one Volk 14x6. Used onboard e-logger with airspeed indicator, RPM sensor and engine temp sensor. Ambient temp 17 degC.

APC 14x6:
Max speed level flight= 46KIAS
Max speed 45deg. dive= 62KIAS
RPM 45deg. dive=10200
RPM level flight=9600
Static RPM=9300
Static thrust=9,1lbf
Static prop wash speed=50knot
Engine temp level flight=105deg.C
Static engine temp=121 deg.C

Volk 14x6:
Max speed level flight= 51KIAS
Max speed 45deg. dive= 68KIAS
RPM 45deg. dive=10000
RPM level flight=9400
Static RPM=9000
Static thrust=9,1lbf
Static prop wash speed=50knot
Engine temp level flight=105deg.C
Static engine temp=118 deg.C

APC 12x8:
Max speed level flight= 65KIAS
Max speed 45deg. dive= 81KIAS
RPM 45deg. dive=11400
RPM level flight=10600
Static RPM=10300
Static thrust=7,3lbf
Static prop wash speed=60knot
Engine temp level flight=110deg.C
Static engine temp=115 deg.C

Based om this, APC 14x6 is not as effective as the Volk 14x6 voden prop. There is NO reason to spend big money on the APC 14x6, when you can buy the cheap 14x6 wooden prop and get better performance!

However, the APC12x8 is faster.

_____________________________

Darn the ground..... and the jumping trees

(in reply to gkamysz)
       Post #: 311

RE: Props-More Myths Busted - 7/24/2007 10:31:55 PM   
jaka


 

Posts: 4526
Joined: 12/11/2001
From: Upplands Vasby, SWEDEN
Status: offline 		Hi!
Any Master Airscrew tests????

_____________________________

Jan Karlsson Airracing products
MVVS, Motul "Micro" all synthetic oil

(in reply to yallaair)
       Post #: 312

RE: Props-More Myths Busted - 7/25/2007 6:38:28 PM   
asmund


 

Posts: 1902
Joined: 11/20/2005
From: Floroe, NORWAY
Status: offline 		I think I have MAS- S series and MAS Scimitar in size 14-6 and 13-8, if I can find them I will lend them to Yallaair to do some testing ( I have to get insurance of the props first, because his landings sucks )

(in reply to jaka)
       Post #: 313

RE: Props-More Myths Busted - 7/25/2007 6:53:01 PM   
jerry_pnegras@hotmail


 

Posts: 6
Joined: 7/25/2007
From: eagle pass, TX, USA
Status: offline 		i im new in the airplane hobby, i have a mustang p51(PTS) AND FLIGHT GREAT , BUT HAVE A FEW DAYS WHIT A SPLIT FIRE WINPAN 71ยจ AND I WHANT TO NOW WHAT ENGINE AND PROPS IS REQUIRED , TO MAKE THE PLANE GO FAST, PLEASE HELP ME

(in reply to speedster 1919)
       Post #: 314

RE: Props-More Myths Busted - 7/25/2007 7:05:34 PM