RE: *** CLUB SUPER TIGRE ***  
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RE: *** CLUB SUPER TIGRE *** - 12/24/2006 8:13:16 PM   
XJet


 

Posts: 3215
Joined: 3/31/2003
From: Tokoroa, NEW ZEALAND
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Not24

I'm sorry to hear that. My engine, after only 16 oz of fuel, will transition faster than any servo can move the throttle. It can go from a 2500 rpm idle to wide open as fast as you can move the pushrod. I found this to be simply amazing. That is with the stock muffler and glow plug, an out of balance wood 14-6 Zinger, and 15% Omega. I'd suggest increasing your nitro to 15% before condemning the engine.


With nitromethane costing $100 a gallon around these parts, there's no way the average modeller can afford to feed an ST90 fuel with 15% nitro in it. Besides which, the prevailing wisdom is that the STs prefer *low* nitro fuel.

Maybe we should try unbalancing the prop? :-))))



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RE: *** CLUB SUPER TIGRE *** - 12/25/2006 12:17:14 AM   
telejojo


 

Posts: 342
Joined: 11/27/2006
From: HUNTSVILLE, AL, USA
Status: offline 		Is that 100.00 a gallon for pure nitro or at 15% thats 15.00 a gallon,thats about the going rate around here.

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RE: *** CLUB SUPER TIGRE *** - 12/25/2006 1:30:20 AM   
XJet


 

Posts: 3215
Joined: 3/31/2003
From: Tokoroa, NEW ZEALAND
Status: offline 		Yeah, but don't forget that's just the *nitro* component. You've got to add another 1/5th gallon of oil (that's about $12) and the methanol $3.70, which comes to a grand total of: $30.70 per gal.

Now my ST90s suck a lot of fuel so a gallon is probably only good for a day or two's flying -- that's quite expensive!

If we go the 5% nitro route we can save quite a bit -- because the cost of the nitro is lower and the fuel consumption of the engines drops quite a bit too.

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RE: *** CLUB SUPER TIGRE *** - 12/25/2006 2:56:16 AM   
Not24



Posts: 999
Joined: 12/7/2002
From: Gloucester, VA, USA
Status: offline 		Nobody ever said this was a poor man's hobby. A G90 doesn't burn that much fuel compared to a Saito 1.80. I know it's apples and oranges, but the people who have those have a reason to complain about fuel prices.

My Ford Ranger is supposed to run on 87 octane. I bought it new, and have never been able to run anything less than 93 in it, or it will ping. So much for what the engineers intended. I do what works. If my engines run fine on 5%, I'll use it. If they need 15% to run good, I'll use that. If the price of fuel ever becomes an issue, I'll fly smaller planes or go electric.

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RE: *** CLUB SUPER TIGRE *** - 12/25/2006 3:57:26 AM   
XJet


 

Posts: 3215
Joined: 3/31/2003
From: Tokoroa, NEW ZEALAND
Status: offline 		Yeah, but all my other engines are happy to run on 5% nitro -- and the ST manual says it's okay to use any fuel from 0%-15% so you would expect the engine to run satisfactorily on 5%, I mean, they wouldn' lie would they? :-)

In reality, you *can* get your ST to run just fine on 5% (or even 0%) if you chuck that awful carby away and fit a decent one.

So is it my fault for not using fuel that costs twice as much as that I feed to my other engines, or is it ST's fault for not updating their carby to something a little more sensible?

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RE: *** CLUB SUPER TIGRE *** - 12/25/2006 4:33:39 AM   
proptop



Posts: 4426
Joined: 10/18/2002
From: Rome, NY, USA
Status: offline 		Mark me down as a member...I've got probably a dozen or so...

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RE: *** CLUB SUPER TIGRE *** - 12/25/2006 4:51:16 PM   
proptop



Posts: 4426
Joined: 10/18/2002
From: Rome, NY, USA
Status: offline 		Hey...is there a ST timeline like the one for O.S. so one could tell when a particular engine was made? (photographs and etc. )

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RE: *** CLUB SUPER TIGRE *** - 12/25/2006 4:59:10 PM   
buzzingb


 

Posts: 1506
Joined: 9/4/2002
From: Bruce, MS, USA
Status: offline 		I use to be one of the Super Tiger bashers but I listened to Not24 and now I love these little jewels. They are a little more tempremental so if you don't know how to set an engine properly go for another brand and pay twice as much and get an engine that will only last 1/4 as long.

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Buzz

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RE: *** CLUB SUPER TIGRE *** - 12/25/2006 10:20:45 PM   
buzzingb


 

Posts: 1506
Joined: 9/4/2002
From: Bruce, MS, USA
Status: offline 		Lets face it everyone wants an engine that will run for a cheap price. Well the Super Tiger Line deviates from the saying, You get what you pay for. With the iron liner and ring you have an engine that will last a lifetime if you run it properly and don't use as earth auger.

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RE: *** CLUB SUPER TIGRE *** - 12/26/2006 12:48:07 AM   
Flyer95


 

Posts: 951
Joined: 9/21/2004
From: STOCKHOLM Akersberga, SWEDEN
Status: offline 		xjet,
Have you tried the OS-F plug?

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RE: *** CLUB SUPER TIGRE *** - 12/26/2006 3:58:57 AM   
speedster 1919



Posts: 1466
Joined: 12/17/2004
From: Martinsville, IN, USA
Status: offline 		I read an article on the web today (should have marked it) from a self proclaimed Super Tigre expert. He said the fix to ST carb mid range problem was in glow plug selection. Not to throw an OS F or other hot plug or even an OS 8 in them. The fix was (silence) Idle bar plug After all these were invented with Super Tigre in mind. It was pointed out , that it was an issue of timing for low and high end which effected tuning. Just like throwing high nitro in a Super Tigre won't give good results. I have always used FOX IDLE BAR LONGS in tigres and all other engines I use with good (last for seasons) results. I will have to do an experiment and put a hot plug in and see if tuning and mid range chages and see if I gain 200 RPM which is claimed by some ,that an idle bar plug will cause..........The only engine I own that does not run a Fox RC long is a TIGER SHARK 61 that made funny sounds on cold start up and 1 member suggested a K&B 1L plug was the only plug that engine liked. He was right on . Hot or cold outside that engine never made another funny sound..........

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RE: *** CLUB SUPER TIGRE *** - 12/26/2006 5:23:06 AM   
XJet


 

Posts: 3215
Joined: 3/31/2003
From: Tokoroa, NEW ZEALAND
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: flyer95
xjet,
Have you tried the OS-F plug?


quote:

ORIGINAL: speedster 1919
I read an article on the web today (should have marked it) from a self proclaimed Super Tigre expert. He said the fix to ST carb mid range problem was in glow plug selection. Not to throw an OS F or other hot plug or even an OS 8 in them. The fix was (silence) Idle bar plug


This is what I mean about the ST engines... one person suggests and OS-F, others say "no, don't use an OS-F"

The truth is that there is a *major* problem with the ST carbies that requires people to try all manner of voodoo magic to try and overcome it. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.

Yet OS, Thunder Tiger, Magnum and a raft of other manufacturers can design and build carbs that don't require all this crazy playing around with nitro percentages, idle-bar plugs, 4-stroke plugs, magical prop-sizes etc.

Just about everyone except ST can build a carby that just works well, regardless of your prop, plug, fuel or whatever.

To all those who suggest that these other fixes are the solution -- you're busy trying to address the symptoms, not the *cause* of the problem -- which is the carby.

The proof is -- just replace the ST carby with a Magnum, Perry or OS carby and all the problems go away, as if by magic.

Point proven, problem solved.

But, for whateve reason, ST refuse to make the incredibly minor alterations that would be all it takes to turn an "okay" engine into a superb one.

Bax has repeatedly dodged this question in the ST support forms -- why?


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RE: *** CLUB SUPER TIGRE *** - 12/26/2006 9:25:39 AM   
Flyer95


 

Posts: 951
Joined: 9/21/2004
From: STOCKHOLM Akersberga, SWEDEN
Status: offline 		The OS-F does not solve the midrange problem completely. What it does is that it keeps the fire going much better than a say OS 8 and makes the engine more reliable when flying at partial throttle and also gives super low idle.

I think a smaller bore carburetor or sleeve in the carb., a less restrictive muffler and a long reach fourstroke glow plug is one solution. Changing the carb is another solution.

< Message edited by Flyer95 -- 12/26/2006 9:30:26 AM >

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RE: *** CLUB SUPER TIGRE *** - 12/26/2006 10:01:00 AM   
XJet


 

Posts: 3215
Joined: 3/31/2003
From: Tokoroa, NEW ZEALAND
Status: offline 		I've tried a less-restrictive muffler (in the form of a mousse-can pipe) and, while it improves the throttling and power somewhat, the carby still provides very poor midrange mixture-control, resulting in poor transition and loading up at throttle settings from 1/3-2/3.

All ST has to do is use a decent carby and they'd have an engine that was even better than an OS.

The only reason I can think of to explain why they don't fix their carby designs is that they simply don't have any design-engineers on staff. I get the impression that ST is (now) just a company which has bought the rights for the current design, commissioned their manufacture in China, and don't have a clue themselves how to fix or improve things.

This would also explain why the long-awaited and long-rumored replacement for the G4500 (the G3750?) has never actually eventuated.

The STs are good engines but their carb design is two or three decades out of date and it's now really hurting them as the other Chinese manufacturers start to roll out some very nice engines which are lighter, stronger and much better suited to today's modern highly-powered models.

ST maybe able to squeeze a few more years out of the current line-up but, unless they update those carbs, they're going to find themselves with only a few totally brand-loyal customers left. As it is, they sell mainly on price but, with other Chinese engines now undercutting them, that can't last either.

I've designed my own carby for my G90s (with responsiveness even suited to 3D) and I'd gladly *give* the design to SuperTigre if they wanted to manufacture them -- but it seems they just don't care. So long as folks keep buying them, they won't change a thing -- which is a shame.

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RE: *** CLUB SUPER TIGRE *** - 12/26/2006 12:29:23 PM