RE: 40% 260 on a Diet  
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RE: 40% 260 on a Diet - 3/21/2007 4:49:45 PM   
mikeboyd


 

Posts: 486
Joined: 11/14/2003
From: San Antonio, TX, USA
Status: offline 		Chuck, I absolutely agree with you. Where is the moderator. I can't believe they keep allowing caustic, abrasive comments from someone obviously "stuck on stupid"!

I fly with Bob often and have seen him and many other expert pilots spend almost the entire day helping a newbie or beginner pilot with difficulties, so they don't get frustrated, do something dangerous, or hurt themselves. If TBob has never had the pleasure of another's company, then he should at least keep his obnoxious comments to himself, until he has all the facts, not just his uninformed opinions.

Bob is one of the best, most innovative builders in the country. I have never seen him build anything that could remotely be considered unsafe. Also, he is often invited to fly exhibitions at many events. Many top freestyle and IMAC pilots are glad that Bob does not compete. He builds, flies, and shares the hobby for the pure sport of it.

I can't wait until I get to see his latest plane fly in person. The videos don't show anything of his 3D flying abilities. Since these were maiden trim flights, he is obviously testing out the airframe gradually and trimming the plane (if it really needs any trimming). Maybe we can get Steve to do a follow-up video in a few weeks, when and if the weather improves, and Bob can really fly the plane through it's paces.

TBob has just confirmed why Bod did not initiate this thread in the first place and did not really want to do it in the first place. He was dragged into it by a well meaning friend, who thought others might appreciate what a real aero-space engineer, who invents, designs and builds things in his own areo-space company, does for fun.

Unfortunately, the TBobs and other caustic personalities are starting to cause many of us to be reluctant to share anything we are doing on RCU anymore. Since most of us work for a living and participate in a great sport to relax, enjoy comraderie and gentlemanly behavior, we are less and less willing to even waste our time posting information, since it so often draws so much negativity, rather than informed sharing of information.

The rest of you that posted positive comments, asked informed questions (which I noticed were promptly answered) need to speak up also.

Let's enjoy our great hobby!!!

Mike Boyd
AMA 7197

< Message edited by mikeboyd -- 3/21/2007 5:37:26 PM >

(in reply to RC_Pattern_Flyer)
       Post #: 226

RE: 40% 260 on a Diet - 3/21/2007 6:07:13 PM   
sensei


 

Posts: 390
Joined: 7/16/2002
From: SAN ANTONIO, TX, USA
Status: offline 		Thanks you guys,

Bob

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       Post #: 227

RE: 40% 260 on a Diet - 3/21/2007 7:45:35 PM   
k5mog



Posts: 90
Joined: 1/31/2002
From: Murfreesboro, TN, USA
Status: offline 		Bob
I don't suppose you attend JoeNall? I would enjoy looking at your 260 in the flesh. It's may 16th-19th and is the biggest large scale event in this part of the country. If not would you mind a few questions by pm? Thanks for a great thread!

Ralph

(in reply to sensei)
       Post #: 228

RE: 40% 260 on a Diet - 3/22/2007 1:48:49 AM   
sensei


 

Posts: 390
Joined: 7/16/2002
From: SAN ANTONIO, TX, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: k5mog

Bob
I don't suppose you attend JoeNall? I would enjoy looking at your 260 in the flesh. It's may 16th-19th and is the biggest large scale event in this part of the country. If not would you mind a few questions by pm? Thanks for a great thread!

Ralph

If at all possible, I will go to Nall this year, it's to early for me to confirm that I would be able to be there, I don't mind any questions on line or PM.

Bob

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       Post #: 229

RE: 40% 260 on a Diet - 3/29/2007 7:18:10 AM   
Jason 3-Danhakl


 

Posts: 105
Joined: 5/25/2002
From: Champaign, IL, USA
Status: offline 		Guys I had the pleasure of getting to fly this Aircraft for three flights last Saturday. Bob asked me to come out and try to give my opinion on its overall capability. The first flight I spend gathering first impressions and what needed to be adjusted for imac style flying. Of course I spent 6 of the 12 mins really flipping her around in full 3-d mode.
My first impression was the engine is no where close to broken in. I'd say there is at least 400 rpm waiting to come out once she seats in. Second was the CG is on the nose heavy side. It take's quite a bit of stick pressure to maintain invert 45's and straight and level. Third was it is foamy light on the sticks. Small corrections react much faster than a 40lb 40%er. Fourth is the power delivery is reallllllly smooth. There is never a speed surge so it was very easy to maintain a constant speed during pattern work.
After adjusting the dual rates and looking at some of the linkages we were ready for the second flight. On this flight I started with 45 up line snaps. These were absolutely no problem for the Extra. So I went on to the vertical snaps. 2 snaps can be performed with out getting off line. Trying 3 it will run out of steam enough you and can see a pronounced wag to get back on line. The wing loading is so light the snaps never really load up. Which in 3-d is outstanding. In IMAC as long as you stay in the snap a little longer and have faith that it will stop they present just as well vs. a 40lb airplane. The power reminds me a of a 40 lb 40%er with Greeves pipes and a Mezlik 28.5x12. Very smooth and constant speed. Rollers are all rudder and very little elevator input. I attribute this to the wing loading. Unless it is true KE elevator makes it change altitude.
Third flight was just screwing around with the airplane. I found it flat spins beyond description. Flatter and slower descent than you can believe. There is no doubt the 3-d aspect of flight is incredible. I performed some serious high g loads to the airframe. It showed no signs of wear or failure at all.
My personal opinion on the airplane is I would fly it at any major contest that is not dealing with a high DA (Tuscon Shootout) You would need more power for the high DA fields.
I know that many of you are going be arm chair critics but this is my opinion. So take it as you want.
Jason Danhakl

(in reply to sensei)
       Post #: 230

RE: 40% 260 on a Diet - 3/29/2007 1:03:36 PM   
T. Bob



Posts: 1505
Joined: 2/19/2002
From: Munster, IN, USA
Status: offline 		Thanks Jason
That was very informative.

"It's the best plane ever"

< Message edited by T. Bob -- 3/31/2007 5:00:01 AM >

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       Post #: 231

RE: 40% 260 on a Diet - 4/2/2007 2:55:38 AM   
vatechguy3


 

Posts: 759
Joined: 4/5/2002
From: Suffolk, VA, USA
Status: offline 		maybe i missed this earlier, but with the da100 on the nose, was there any lead added to the nose in order to balance??

also, have you guys noticed any issue with the smaller diameter prop not giving any flow to the surfaces during slow high alpha flight?

thanks
tony

(in reply to T. Bob)
       Post #: 232

RE: 40% 260 on a Diet - 4/2/2007 6:45:49 PM   
sensei


 

Posts: 390
Joined: 7/16/2002
From: SAN ANTONIO, TX, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: vatechguy3

maybe i missed this earlier, but with the da100 on the nose, was there any lead added to the nose in order to balance??

also, have you guys noticed any issue with the smaller diameter prop not giving any flow to the surfaces during slow high alpha flight?

thanks
tony



The airframe was built around the parameters of the DA 100s weight so there was not any need for lead in the nose, in fact it looks like I will be moving the batteries and regulators from the engine box to somewhere near the wing tube. As far as enough air moving over the surfaces during high alpha maneuvers; it’s just really not an issue and it will only get better because this is a new engine and I am running it rich enough that it is only turning 5900 rpm, I think after break-in; it will be somewhere around 6300 rpm and nearly 15 more pounds of thrust on an airplane that only weighs 28lbs to start with.

Bob

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(in reply to vatechguy3)
       Post #: 233

RE: 40% 260 on a Diet - 7/4/2007 6:51:23 PM   
sensei


 

Posts: 390
Joined: 7/16/2002
From: SAN ANTONIO, TX, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: gbrod

Ok, thanks.
I'll wait for the 50 flights and your comments then.
In the meantime, enjoy it, everybody should be jealous (in the good sense)
Best regards
George




Hey, George

About three weeks ago I broke 60 flights with it. All I can really say is I am having allot of fun with it, there have been no glue joint failures or structural failures, it tracks very true even in winy conditions, and it flies well for both IMAC and 3D.
Here is a link to a short video at around 50 flights.

http://www.icanflyrc.com/RCRC/slides/Bob260.html

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       Post #: 234

RE: 40% 260 on a Diet - 7/6/2007 2:30:32 PM   
Doug Cronkhite


 

Posts: 2152
Joined: 12/20/2001
From: San Diego, CA, USA
Status: offline 		Really impressive work Bob. Really damned impressive!!

You should know.. a lot of people said the same kind of things when Pete Goldsmith showed up at the 1994 TOC with his 46% Cap 232. That 134" span, 3310 square" Cap 232 weighed 34 pounds and flew competitively in the TOC on a 3W-120. Like you, he spent a great deal of effort examining where to save weight without sacrificing structural integrity, and like you, many people scoffed at his methods.

I'm truly fascinated why some of you people felt the need to ridicule this effort? It's amazing what the anonymity of the internet will do to bring out people's bad personality traits. I guarantee none of you would ever act like this is person, where you might actually be held accountable for your callous, rude, and purely childish comments.

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Doug Cronkhite

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       Post #: 235

RE: 40% 260 on a Diet - 11/30/2007 3:27:04 PM   
AirTramp



Posts: 7
Joined: 8/15/2007
From: Rogersville, AL, USA
Status: offline 		First of all thanks 260 Man for starting this thread. Also thanks Sensei for sharing your ideas and talent with the modeling community.
I started a 40% Carden Edge over three years ago. It was my first sheeted foam airplane and yes I did build one of the wings upside down, something about putting the top down or the bottom up, what ever, any way I didn't follow the instructions where it is plainly marked "Place top down". I was very upset with myself for the mistake and straight away ordered a new wing kit from Dennis. New wing arrived and the replacement balsa was so much heaver than the balsa that originally came with the plane that I lost focus on the build. I couldn't make myself use the replacement balsa so I set the project aside. After about four months my ambitions again arose so I decided to purchase new balsa and get along with the project.
I'll be the first to admit that a Carden flies great at 38 lbs but as I built this plane in the back of my mind this little voice keep saying “Build it to fly. Don't build it to survive a crash." As I completed the wood work I still couldn't make myself cover the plane. I kept thinking this thing has got to go on a diet. Not knowing what to do next I put it aside once more. And there it has sat for three years. I have been content buying and flying ARF until I stumbled across this thread.
Because of 260 man's thread and Sensei choosing to continue sharing his ideas when others may have "taken their ball and went home" has caused me to dust the old Drimel tool off with a renewed want to complete this aircraft. It won't be as light as Sensei's but it will be lighter than 38 lbs.
This thread hasn't been posted to in almost five months. So if you are reading this and you know 260 Man or Sensei please tell them thanks for the information that showed a fellow modeler what he needed to do to complete his well over due project.

< Message edited by AirTramp -- 11/30/2007 4:49:05 PM >

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(in reply to Doug Cronkhite)
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RE: 40% 260 on a Diet - 12/3/2007 12:26:34 PM   
sensei


 

Posts: 390
Joined: 7/16/2002
From: SAN ANTONIO, TX, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AirTramp

First of all thanks 260 Man for starting this thread. Also thanks Sensei for sharing your ideas and talent with the modeling community.
I started a 40% Carden Edge over three years ago. It was my first sheeted foam airplane and yes I did build one of the wings upside down, something about putting the top down or the bottom up, what ever, any way I didn't follow the instructions where it is plainly marked "Place top down". I was very upset with myself for the mistake and straight away ordered a new wing kit from Dennis. New wing arrived and the replacement balsa was so much heaver than the balsa that originally came with the plane that I lost focus on the build. I couldn't make myself use the replacement balsa so I set the project aside. After about four months my ambitions again arose so I decided to purchase new balsa and get along with the project.
I'll be the first to admit that a Carden flies great at 38 lbs but as I built this plane in the back of my mind this little voice keep saying “Build it to fly. Don't build it to survive a crash." As I completed the wood work I still couldn't make myself cover the plane. I kept thinking this thing has got to go on a diet. Not knowing what to do next I put it aside once more. And there it has sat for three years. I have been content buying and flying ARF until I stumbled across this thread.
Because of 260 man's thread and Sensei choosing to continue sharing his ideas when others may have "taken their ball and went home" has caused me to dust the old Drimel tool off with a renewed want to complete this aircraft. It won't be as light as Sensei's but it will be lighter than 38 lbs.
This thread hasn't been posted to in almost five months. So if you are reading this and you know 260 Man or Sensei please tell them thanks for the information that showed a fellow modeler what he needed to do to complete his well over due project.


Hello Air Tramp,

Thank you for your kind words and I wish you the very best on your build.

Bob

_____________________________

Fly It Like You Stole It!!!

(in reply to AirTramp)
       Post #: 237

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