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All Forums >> RC Airplanes >> Giant Scale Aircraft - 3D & Aerobatic >> Carden Aircraft >> RE: 40% 260 on a Diet

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RE: 40% 260 on a Diet - 1/1/2007 2:16 AM

Bob101

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quote:

ORIGINAL: 260 Man

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bob101

OMG lol now tell me what the compression strength of monokote is compared to it's tensile strength.

How about this, you sit back and watch the thread or NOT. Keep your negative opinions to yourself and I promise not to ever fly in, around, or near your part of TX. Nor will I ever question you or your methods of doing things, not even your "I'm just an structural engineer by trade" comment. You have no clue what I do for a living nor is it your business, but I have been doing it long enough to know that there is always more than one way to do anything. Now getty up cowboy.

Respectfully,

ME 260 Man

Fair enough but only a true idiot would ignore the vast knowledge the people on these boards bring. How many people have "supported" you? How many of those have actually built a giant scale kit? If you want to throw money away and build a death trap be my guest. My guess is when this finishes we never see the "end product" past the original photo ops and it either becomes a hangar queen or it destroys itself in the first 50 flights. My first clue was when you started quoting tensile strength of the monokote, no one who ever knows about design and strength starts throwing around numbers like that to a general audience - it's either a good design or it's not.

Good luck with "that".

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RE: 40% 260 on a Diet - 1/1/2007 2:53 AM

260 Man

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bob101

quote:

ORIGINAL: 260 Man

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bob101

OMG lol now tell me what the compression strength of monokote is compared to it's tensile strength.

How about this, you sit back and watch the thread or NOT. Keep your negative opinions to yourself and I promise not to ever fly in, around, or near your part of TX. Nor will I ever question you or your methods of doing things, not even your "I'm just an structural engineer by trade" comment. You have no clue what I do for a living nor is it your business, but I have been doing it long enough to know that there is always more than one way to do anything. Now getty up cowboy.

Respectfully,

ME 260 Man

Fair enough but only a true idiot would ignore the vast knowledge the people on these boards bring. How many people have "supported" you? How many of those have actually built a giant scale kit? If you want to throw money away and build a death trap be my guest. My guess is when this finishes we never see the "end product" past the original photo ops and it either becomes a hangar queen or it destroys itself in the first 50 flights. My first clue was when you started quoting tensile strength of the monokote, no one who ever knows about design and strength starts throwing around numbers like that to a general audience - it's either a good design or it's not.

Good luck with "that".

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Post #: 77

RE: 40% 260 on a Diet - 1/1/2007 2:55 AM

Jason 3-Danhakl

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Bob101
Ever hear of the term Keyboard Pilot?

Wgeffon- You sound so sure about the Monokote.

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Post #: 78

RE: 40% 260 on a Diet - 1/1/2007 3:22 AM

paf

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Keyboard pilots, coach builders, Holiday-Inn engineers, back seat designers, one very determined builder - priceless.

This is going to be fun.

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Post #: 79

RE: 40% 260 on a Diet - 1/1/2007 5:25 AM

bzrogers

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There are usually two types of threads on RCUniverse...

The first is posting a question where the individual posting wants feedback and opinion from others. This does not appear to be one of them!

This thread is the second type of thread usually found on RCU... It is informational. 260MAN is posting this information here for everyone to see... NOT TO RECIEVE NEGATIVE COMMENTS!!!

I agree with Jason... There are too many "Keyboard Pilots" posting nasty comments here!

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jason 3-Danhakl

Bob101
Ever hear of the term Keyboard Pilot?

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Post #: 80

RE: 40% 260 on a Diet - 1/1/2007 7:08 AM

wgeffon

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jason 3-Danhakl

Wgeffon- You sound so sure about the Monokote.

Jason...

If your asking me if I have ever popped Monokote, over an open fuse bay, on 35% RadioCraft, while doing a Wall....
The answer is yes.

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Post #: 81

RE: 40% 260 on a Diet - 1/1/2007 9:07 AM

RobT

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Well lets also take a step back here. I do not remember 260 man ever saying he was planning on using this aircraft for full throttle walls and blenders. He just said it will fly with a DA 100. That to me seemed like his goal. He did not say he was trying to build an aircraft that was going to compete at the next Extreme Flight Championship, and that is ok. He didn't even say he wanted it for IMAC. We all know there are a far greater number of pilots at the fields across the world who are very happy with doing lazy traffic patterns around all day, AND THAT IS FINE! They have fun in their own way. I think most guys at my local field have not even found the rudder stick yet.

So let's come out and ask for clarification:

260, what is the stated intention with this finished project?

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Post #: 82

RE: 40% 260 on a Diet - 1/1/2007 9:37 AM

260 Man

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quote:

ORIGINAL: RobT

Well lets also take a step back here. I do not remember 260 man ever saying he was planning on using this aircraft for full throttle walls and blenders. He just said it will fly with a DA 100. That to me seemed like his goal. He did not say he was trying to build an aircraft that was going to compete at the next Extreme Flight Championship, and that is ok. He didn't even say he wanted it for IMAC. We all know there are a far greater number of pilots at the fields across the world who are very happy with doing lazy traffic patterns around all day, AND THAT IS FINE! They have fun in their own way. I think most guys at my local field have not even found the rudder stick yet.

So let's come out and ask for clarification:

260, what is the stated intention with this finished project?

Rob T your statements are so very true. However, I promise you this aircraft will fly or die trying to do any and all types of 3D. The video will tell it all, it will show just what it can or can not handle.

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Post #: 83

RE: 40% 260 on a Diet - 1/1/2007 4:44 PM

Flyfalcons

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260, why did you double the number of verticals instead of keeping the diagonal bracing?

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Post #: 84

RE: 40% 260 on a Diet - 1/1/2007 5:40 PM

cbk07

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Cool build 260man! I can not wait to see how light this plane comes out. It is no secret that a Carden built to plans is grossly overbuilt. I have seen many threads of guys lightening them in different ways. The only way to find out how much lightening is too much is to try. The downside to all of the lightening mods being done is that an inexperienced builder can easily build an unsafe aircraft, but for some reason Carden chooses not to offer a reasonable amount of "designed in" lightening in their kits. On the flip side, the Cardens still fly fine at 40lbs plus when powered correctly.

Having said that, your build is clearly different. Your structure at 36 lbs and a 150 on the front would surely (from my layman's viewpoint) fail quickly. However at 28 lbs with a 100 on the front, it may revolutionize giant scale as we know it. Your power to weight will be more than adequate for most locales and your wing loading will make even the lightest foamies jealous! I agree that your approach may not be for the masses, but applaud you greatly for your efforts and hope it is succesful. I will be watching impatiently for your video. It is obvious to me this is not your first time trying something a little out of the box and thank you for sharing it with us. Good luck and Hapy New Year! Craig

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Post #: 85

RE: 40% 260 on a Diet - 1/1/2007 6:14 PM

260 Man

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Flyfalcons

260, why did you double the number of verticals instead of keeping the diagonal bracing?

Flyfalcons, I never said I doubled, that was Bob101's words. I said I added more. I added 6 more total.......

BTW so everyone will know it will have diagonals in the wing root area....

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Post #: 86

RE: 40% 260 on a Diet - 1/1/2007 6:19 PM

260 Man

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quote:

ORIGINAL: cbk07

Cool build 260man! I can not wait to see how light this plane comes out. It is no secret that a Carden built to plans is grossly overbuilt. I have seen many threads of guys lightening them in different ways. The only way to find out how much lightening is too much is to try. The downside to all of the lightening mods being done is that an inexperienced builder can easily build an unsafe aircraft, but for some reason Carden chooses not to offer a reasonable amount of "designed in" lightening in their kits. On the flip side, the Cardens still fly fine at 40lbs plus when powered correctly.

Having said that, your build is clearly different. Your structure at 36 lbs and a 150 on the front would surely (from my layman's viewpoint) fail quickly. However at 28 lbs with a 100 on the front, it may revolutionize giant scale as we know it. Your power to weight will be more than adequate for most locales and your wing loading will make even the lightest foamies jealous! I agree that your approach may not be for the masses, but applaud you greatly for your efforts and hope it is succesful. I will be watching impatiently for your video. It is obvious to me this is not your first time trying something a little out of the box and thank you for sharing it with us. Good luck and Hapy New Year! Craig

Well said sir, thank you very much for the kind words.....

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Post #: 87

RE: 40% 260 on a Diet - 1/1/2007 7:10 PM

Windecker

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260 Man,
Thanks for the posting. I like much of what you have done so far. I think much of what your doing is helpful to teaching us what works and does not work, also just how much material you have to remove to get the weight down. I only fear the tail area a little but otherwise so far looks good to me.

When people cut the sheeting away from the Cardens aft fuse section a couple of years ago so many thought the plane would not hold up, but it did. Look how many thought that Ivan's plane would fly apart last year, but it worked just fine.
I think the negitive feedback is just coming from concerned modelers who fear the worst. I feel that it is ok or maybe even a duty for them to voice opinion. We are mostly all trying to watch out for each other.

I hope your build continues on and that you have a wonderful time doing it. I am looking forward to learning along the way.
Will B.

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Post #: 88

RE: 40% 260 on a Diet - 1/1/2007 8:00 PM

Jason 3-Danhakl

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quote:

ORIGINAL: wgeffon

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jason 3-Danhakl

Wgeffon- You sound so sure about the Monokote.

Jason...

If your asking me if I have ever popped Monokote, over an open fuse bay, on 35% RadioCraft, while doing a Wall....
The answer is yes.

Wayne,
What are you doing flying into walls? Of course the Monokote isn't going to take that. LoL I really don't think that he is planning on using the Monokote to hold the plane in one peice.
Jason\
BTW I've busted a few open bays myself! Rick Bird blew the entire bottom of his AW 300L at the Masters a few years back. The Monokote looked like busted Pringles.

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Post #: 89

RE: 40% 260 on a Diet - 1/2/2007 4:18 AM

sensei

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Hey Bob 101,

What makes you think for a minute that this is a poor design and has all kind of flex and twist issues, the fact is from the pictures, it has diagonal braces on the top and bottom of the longerons, it also has additional vertical braces on the sides of those longerons making that box section nearly impossible to twist, in addition you have completely disregarded the turtle and lower decks that also add twist and bending rigidity, the Monokote is nothing more then icing on the cake. There are most likely many of the folks that are supporting this thread with little or no giant scale building or flying skills, I am not one of them; nor will I waste everybody’s time pulling my own chain. If you were a seasoned aviation structural engineer, you would see this for yourself instead of me having to point it out to you.

< Message edited by sensei -- 1/2/2007 4:34 AM >

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RE: 40% 260 on a Diet - 1/4/2007 2:32 AM

Bill_Higgins

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Nice Aircraft Stand !!!

Bill

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Post #: 91

RE: 40% 260 on a Diet - 1/4/2007 5:34 AM

sensei

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Hey Bill,

It's been a long time, how are things?

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Post #: 92

RE: 40% 260 on a Diet - 1/4/2007 5:34 AM

260 Man

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Thanks mate, me lady got that for me. From a company in TX.

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Post #: 93

RE: 40% 260 on a Diet - 1/4/2007 6:12 AM

260 Man

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Not much, work to show tonight... Started on the vertical stab...........

Only .5 oz removed

Every little bit counts................

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Post #: 94

RE: 40% 260 on a Diet - 1/4/2007 9:11 AM

Ricmussman

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I hope your floor is totally flat! If your concrete floors are like most you might want to re-think your way of sheeting before you do the wings in this manner. Oh yeah since credentials seem to matter on this thread; I was a Project Manager for the largest union concrete constuction company in the USA. Your plane may be light and structurally sound, but crooked like a politician if the floor is your jig.

Just my .02 worth,
Ric

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RE: 40% 260 on a Diet - 1/4/2007 10:41 AM

TXDA2000

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You obviously haven't stripped a chinese arf with a few flights on it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: wgeffon

Ted,

Covering will not hold a 40% plane together.

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Post #: 96

RE: 40% 260 on a Diet - 1/4/2007 10:47 AM

TXDA2000

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Hey, er, Bob.

What's with all the photoshopping of the pics. I want to see more of your garage. What are you hidin back there.

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Post #: 97

RE: 40% 260 on a Diet - 1/4/2007 4:27 PM

260 Man

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SCimacRD

Hey, er, Bob.

What's with all the photoshopping of the pics. I want to see more of your garage. What are you hidin back there.

Well sir my name is Robert its not often that I'm call Bob. I've edited the photo's because me lady got upset with my showing of my messy garage.

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Post #: 98

RE: 40% 260 on a Diet - 1/4/2007 4:32 PM

260 Man

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricmussman

I hope your floor is totally flat! If your concrete floors are like most you might want to re-think your way of sheeting before you do the wings in this manner. Oh yeah since credentials seem to matter on this thread; I was a Project Manager for the largest union concrete constuction company in the USA. Your plane may be light and structurally sound, but crooked like a politician if the floor is your jig.

Just my .02 worth,
Ric

Ric,

You make a good point, and I have checked this section of the floor before for that purpose.

Thanks for the input....

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RE: 40% 260 on a Diet - 1/4/2007 5:51 PM

wavy777

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260 Man...great project......very interesting...

Quick unrelated question...where do you fly...I'm in Oxfordshire too..

Regards

Wavy

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