RE: Pitts Pythons in Customs now (Full Version)

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V1 RO T8 -> RE: Pitts Pythons in Customs now (4/14/2007 5:05:17 AM)

Roger that on the lipo location.

Sounds like your slightly aft CG is acceptable, then.

Will report on my maiden, hopefully next week.

I'm based in CLE, mainline.



Unleaded Gaz -> RE: Pitts Pythons in Customs now (4/15/2007 7:09:55 PM)

Hi all,

I'm still hacking away at the Python and, following on from examples of other builders' work on the thread, have just completed a cowl ring and so that I can hide the cowl bolts internally. A quick question for any DA 50 exponents before I actually glue the ring former to the cowl, when I position the cowl so that the color scheme lines up, the front face of the prop-driver is 1" ahead of the front of the cowl - this is using 3" standoffs. I have 3 options: change to the 2 1/2" standoffs and pay a possible CofG penalty: move the cowl forward and accept the trim miss-match: accept the rear face of the spinner being 1" in front of the cowl. I'd be grateful for any input - how have you done yours?

Also, anyone else fitting a canister instead of a muffler?

Thanks in anticipation

Garry



V1 RO T8 -> RE: Pitts Pythons in Customs now (4/15/2007 10:00:48 PM)

My choice was "move the cowl forward and accept the trim miss-match".
You'll never notice it that much, and with the wings on, it is pretty much hidden (as well as the different color of the cowl paint vs. the covering color).

Did not use cannister; used the Slimline Pitts.



edgeman55-RCU -> RE: Pitts Pythons in Customs now (4/16/2007 5:33:07 PM)

Is it true that Aerotec said this is Chinacote covering?I hope not as this stuff will not hold up in my high desert heat.I know from experince with a Chip Hyde plane that I had to recover that had this stuff on it.There ad states it was covered in Oracover-one of the reasons I purchased this arf.Man Heavy wierd sized aluminum tubes,ca hinges now Chinacote.I love the look of this bird and glad to hear it flys great but some of these other things miff me for a 650.00 arf.



bonedaddy41 -> RE: Pitts Pythons in Customs now (4/16/2007 6:56:43 PM)

I got to put 2 more flights on my Python this weekend. I think it is going to be a really good flyer. I had mechanical issues on both flights but was still able to get enough time in the air to have an enjoyable weekend. I was flying without the cowl while I retuned the engine (I messed it up because I switched mufflers and started "tweaking" the needles [:@] ) so I will have to retrim in flight once I put the cowl back on. I had an aileron servo arm come off on the 1st flight ... and didn't really notice it until I was taxiing back to the pitts [;)] The 2nd flight ended abruptly with a deadstick (that last tweak was too much). The situation could have been a very bad one. I was at about 75 feet high ... maybe 100 feet outside the field ... and straight upwind. This meant I didn't have the altitude to do a full go-around and come into the wind for landing. I just called "deadstick" and pointed the nose down to gain as much speed as I could going with the wind. Once over the field I just started a slight crab - rolled it a tad to straighten out down the center of the field ... and did another perfect 3 pointer at mid field. I saw no bad sign even landing deadstick downwind [:)]

Conditions: 70 degrees - blue sky and 5 to 10 mph 90 degree crosswind [:D]

Knife edge is very stable with very little coupling (which is very surprising for any biplane) and GREAT rudder authority
loops were very straight no matter how big or small
rolls are very axial - even on low rates

As I have mentioned - with only 3 flights so far - this thing prety much lands itself - which is also amazing for any biplane.

I have come up with some interesting information that is kind of eye opening for me. I have used a couple of different programs including ThrustHP to calculate things like estimated static thrust, wing loading and thrust to wieght ratio for my combination.

* Spinning a 24x8 prop at 6300 rpm gives an estimated static thrust of 37 to 39 pounds depending on prop brand
* The wing area of 1585 is 11.0 sq ft
* at 19 pounds - that is less than 28 ounces per sq foot wing loading
* and - at 19 pounds and an average of 38 pounds of thrust - that is a 2:1 thrust to wieght ratio

Unless I screwed up with some of these number - that ain't half bad [:D] I understand that these estimating tools are just that .. estimates. But even if the thrust calculation is off by 20% ... it is still pretty good.



Unleaded Gaz -> RE: Pitts Pythons in Customs now (4/17/2007 10:03:16 PM)

All the equipment for the Python came out of my Chip Hyde Vision; I really loved that plane apart from 2 things, the covering and the control horns (the same as supplied with the Python).

Covering: - When I recieved the Pythonthe rudder leading edge was damaged and the lower edge of the fin needed to be altered to lie flat against the fus. These tasks required a small element of recovering, Profilm yellow (OcraColor) was a perfect match. Good news. I am concerned about the black trim and its apparent clear film lying over the top - this does not sound like profilm but I'll have to see how it stands the test of time to be sure. After spending the equivalent of nearly $1000 on this in the UK, I will be very diappointed to find out its ChinaCote or some similar substandard material.[>:]

Control Horns: - 2 of the ball races in the control horns disintegrated on me, the Vision instructions called for the horns to be glued to the flying services with cyno - I did this then couldn't change the horns. Luckily the kit came with 2 spare horns and I was able to press the ball races out of these and use them to replace the damaged ones. My experience of these horns is they don't like non-linear movement therefore I shall only be using them on the elevators (with the rear of the servos shimmed out to achieve linear movement, perpendicular to the hinge line) and rudder. I will look for alternative control horns for the ailerons.

My next tasks are to make a pipe hanger to support the exhast and to fit the rudder - I will try and add photos next time.



Unleaded Gaz -> RE: Pitts Pythons in Customs now (4/17/2007 10:08:04 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: V1 RO T8

My choice was "move the cowl forward and accept the trim miss-match".
You'll never notice it that much, and with the wings on, it is pretty much hidden (as well as the different color of the cowl paint vs. the covering color).

Did not use cannister; used the Slimline Pitts.


Thanks for the advice - I have just managed to find some 2 1/2" standoffs as well the 3" ones so I will see with which ones the best balance is achieved and then make a decision on positioning the cowling.



V1 RO T8 -> RE: Pitts Pythons in Customs now (4/18/2007 1:59:55 AM)

You're welcome. Apparently good news on the Oracover matching on the yellow.
I was leery as well of the horns same as the DV, but I put 'em on. We'll see how they hold up; if I have to, I'll replace them.
Let me know how it's going.



alpapilot -> RE: Pitts Pythons in Customs now (4/18/2007 2:08:40 PM)

V1 RO T8,

How 'bout that wind at CAK the other day? First attempt on Rwy 1 winds were 300@32 gust 43. About 1200 feet the plane started yelling, "Tail windshear! tail windshear!" so we had I a fun go-around after a loss of 20 on final. Second time sucked as well but never got more than +/- 10.



V1 RO T8 -> RE: Pitts Pythons in Customs now (4/18/2007 11:55:03 PM)

I was glad I was on vacation and didn't have to fly that day.
SCA-RY!!
You know the old airline pilot joke: Upon entering the cockpit from the operations office, the Captain says to the FO,"Want to see the weather report?" FO:"Naw, we gotta go anyway!"
For those who may take me seriously--the operative word is "joke", ok?
(To answer your question--yes, CAL.)
I am hoping to get a Pitts maiden in this weekend.



alpapilot -> RE: Pitts Pythons in Customs now (4/19/2007 6:07:47 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: V1 RO T8

I was glad I was on vacation and didn't have to fly that day.
SCA-RY!!
You know the old airline pilot joke: Upon entering the cockpit from the operations office, the Captain says to the FO,"Want to see the weather report?" FO:"Naw, we gotta go anyway!"
For those who may take me seriously--the operative word is "joke", ok?
(To answer your question--yes, CAL.)
I am hoping to get a Pitts maiden in this weekend.


Sounds like something we used to say in the EMB, "If you don't like what you see on the radar, turn it off. You are going anyway and its just going to scare you."

Now for everyone,
Because of the flimsy black chinacoat would covering it with clear Ultracoat work? I am thinking one piece per wing section that would also cover the thin black and silver lines. Just outline from there. Or, is that just stupid? If so say, "that's a stupid idea Joel and you are stupid for even suggesting such a stupid thing."



V1 RO T8 -> RE: Pitts Pythons in Customs now (4/19/2007 10:05:41 AM)

Not so supid, really; I used that technique on the Double Vision. I put a small "patch" of clear on the leading points of the various stripes. That kept the wind from lifting the stripes, without having to cover large areas...



bonedaddy41 -> RE: Pitts Pythons in Customs now (4/22/2007 10:17:19 PM)

I got 2 more flights in today with a 20 to 25 mph wind out of the south. That much wind sure makes a floater hard to set down [;)]

Hammerheads are very straight and quick. Inverted flight is rock solid. I moved the weight back just a tad. It will fly hands off - either way (wheels up / wheels down) - straight and level. Very nice.

I do have some bad news. After all of my support for using the CA hinges ... I had 2 break on the rudder today [:@] I have never had a CA hinge fail ... and to have 2 fail on the same day surprises me. I don't know what caused it because I was not doing anything that stressful. The hammerheads were the only thing I did today that used a lot of rudder ... but that should not put a lot of stress on the hinges because the plane is pretty much stalled at that point. Anyway ..... I will eat a bit of crow now ... and I will replace the hinges with Robarts this week.



Unleaded Gaz -> RE: Pitts Pythons in Customs now (4/22/2007 11:37:54 PM)

I have just put the aileron servos in the wings and in doing so noticed that the black trim (both thin stripes and large black elements closer to the wing tips) was lifting at the leading edges. It looks like this is going to be a common theme and I have to ask why use such a sub-standard material[>:] I shall try the idea of clear UltraCoat although I suspect I will have to replace all the black with ProFilm (OcraCover in the USA?) in the near future.

I also attahced the rudder today. Obviously it is built light for good reason but given that I had to repair/strengthen its leading edge prior to fitting (slightly 'kinked' in transit') I think the wood chosen is too soft - this may just be the with my kit.

So far my views on this kit remain mixed. It has gone together very quickly but issues such as the poor quality of the covering need to be addressed in future batches if it is to be ranked as value for money.

Garry



V1 RO T8 -> RE: Pitts Pythons in Customs now (4/23/2007 3:03:39 AM)

I will reply to both Garry and bonedaddy in the same message.

1st, I'm glad you did not lose your plane, bonedaddy, That is exactly what happened to me, but the elevator hinges failed on one side. That led to a nose down death flutter that was unrecoverable. Lost the Patty Wagstaff Extras on the 9th flight. So, you don't have to eat crow, but I suspect you'll never again trust the CA hinges on a gasser. Simply too much vibration on the tail feathers during ground ops--"fatigue city"!!

The covering on this plane is definitely not up to par. The black is extremely prone to wrinkling and bubling at the slightest temperature increase. Was ironing some bubbles on the yellow, and when I went onto the black covering, it melted!!! Big hole, instantly!! Whoa...
I also have some strips of black coming loose--there is some clear on top of the black, and it is coming off in places.

Otherwise happy with it. Bulids light and straight.

Had my first two flights today, and used the smoke system. Sweet!!!

Did not need ONE click of trim in any axis. Plane flew straight on the first flight.

Did not get a chance to start trimming for aerobatics as it was very windy. Just kind of flew around, did some loops, rolls, hammerheads and cubans.

Lands nice.

2 flights and packed her up, "live to fly another day".



edgeman55-RCU -> RE: Pitts Pythons in Customs now (4/23/2007 5:44:46 PM)

Thanks for the heads up on the CA hinges.This confirms my concerns if they would hold up on a gasser which I was told they were OK. Now I am glad I have held off on the build to see what problems are popping up.I will use Robarts in the wings and Klett on the elevators and rudder.The covering really pisses me off as these guys advertised and still show on the ad that this plane is covered in Oracover(Ultracote here in the USA)and it clearly is not.If I wanted to cover a plane I would of purchased a ARC.[:@]



V1 RO T8 -> RE: Pitts Pythons in Customs now (4/23/2007 5:52:21 PM)

Your preference on the Kletts, but I used Robarts everywhere. Did not feel there was enough material in the horizontal and vertical stabs to accomodate hoggin out for the Kletts.
Robarts only need a drilled hole.
Also strongly recommend Gorilla Glue for the hinges.

Am going over all the covering today with a heat gun and rolled up T-shirt to rub it down while covering is hot.

Will fly again tomorrow and see if the black continues to "bubble up".



bonedaddy41 -> RE: Pitts Pythons in Customs now (4/24/2007 3:25:26 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: V1 RO T8
...

Simply too much vibration on the tail feathers during ground ops--"fatigue city"!!

...

I agree. Even though I only have 5 flights on the plane ... it does have a lot of "vibration" time on it. I tested 4 different mufflers ... with warmups ... adjustments ... taching ... setting the idle ... etc. Plus the Evolution 58GX does vibrate more than a DA50 (I call it my Harley Davidson engine). Thinking back on it ... I should have known that 3 CA hinges on the rudder would never stand that kind of side-to-side stress [:@]

Live and learn.



LowKey3D -> RE: Pitts Pythons in Customs now (4/24/2007 3:38:04 PM)


quote:


I agree. Even though I only have 5 flights on the plane ... it does have a lot of "vibration" time on it. I tested 4 different mufflers ... with warmups ... adjustments ... taching ... setting the idle ... etc. Plus the Evolution 58GX does vibrate more than a DA50 (I call it my Harley Davidson engine). Thinking back on it ... I should have known that 3 CA hinges on the rudder would never stand that kind of side-to-side stress [:@]

Live and learn.



I bet the tension on pull-pull doesn't help either with the CA's..



V1 RO T8 -> RE: Pitts Pythons in Customs now (4/24/2007 9:46:57 PM)

I had an old MVVS 58 on a Double Vision, and it shook that thing to death. Great vertical, though! But it was too cantankerous of an engine for me--never reliable.
I'm only getting about 5-600 feet vertical penetration with the Pitts/DA-50 combo. She's as light as we could make it.
Hoping the engine will pull better as it breaks in...
5 more flights today. CG is right on, thrust line needs to go to the right some more.
Nice landing airplane!! I was having a big time doing touch and go's until I got a small hole on landing---just rolling out nice, left main gear went into the hole and it flipped over on its back. Bummer.
Our field was just repaired after major vandalism. Guess the repair crew missed that hole. Too bad I had to find it.
Messed up the cowling when the scoop dug in, and broke the top of the rudder. But no damage to the gear struts, wheel pants, or the wings.
So, into the shop, and in a couple of hours she'll be ready to go again.
The smoke is awesome--here are a few pics...



bonedaddy41 -> RE: Pitts Pythons in Customs now (4/24/2007 10:14:39 PM)

The smoke looks great!!! Sorry to hear that you found a gopher hole. Hopefully the repairs will go smooth.

My Evolution has been very reliable. I blew a base gasket ... but other than that have not had a single issue from day one ... about a year and a half now. I even use mine to tease the ZDZ folks [;)] As they flip ... and flip ... and cuss ... and flip ... I flip 3 times on choke ... 2nd flip off choke ... there she is [:D]

I have unlimited vertical with the Evolution swinging a 24x8 prop with no sign of slowing down .... same speed flat and level or straight up. We have to watch our ceiling because we are close to a regional airport and kind of between DFW and Love Field (their approach paths anyway). But it will climb from a 10 foot rolling takeoff straight past our 400' ceiling without ever missing a beat.



V1 RO T8 -> RE: Pitts Pythons in Customs now (4/24/2007 11:01:30 PM)

Thanks!

My MVVS has a blown gasket, same as yours. I never fixed it, due to frustration. Plus, the YAK flew terrible with it. DA-50 lightness made it into a "sweet ship". Maybe one of these days, I'll fix it, and see how it runs.
Wasn't your Pitts awful nose-heavy with that engine?

A few more updates after today's flights:
1. After going over the black covering with a heat gun and rolled up T-shirt, there were no bubbles today, even in the bright sun. The OAT was about 72 degrees. I did lose several clear overlay strips from some of the black stripes. They were trailing behind during flight. Landed and cut them off.
2. Had the canopy crack at several screw holes. Will put washers on each screw, or maybe just glue it on.

Now, a few pictures of my new rig. Got a Thule N3205 to haul my two birds in; at only 350# empty, can now drive a smaller car, save gas, and leave the planes in the trailer, ready to go to the field.
I made a custom wood mounting system, and mounted it on a 4X8 sheet of plywood. Inside, the trailer is 4" 10"W by 80" long at the floor. But both end walls are relieved outward, adding maybe 6 or 7", so the 30% YAK fits in with a couple of inches to spare. The four hinged "flaps" wedge it in from side to side.
I will be constructing a wing rack to fit up inside the cap. Put a $50 toolbox from Lowe's on the tongue. It holds all required equipment. I put 3 vents in each side to evacuate gas fumes while travelling.




V1 RO T8 -> RE: Pitts Pythons in Customs now (4/24/2007 11:03:29 PM)

PS: I had to purchase the side extension kit to make the trailer deep enough for the planes...$145.00



Birddog-RCU -> RE: Pitts Pythons in Customs now (4/24/2007 11:37:32 PM)

Sweet setup! [8D]



bonedaddy41 -> RE: Pitts Pythons in Customs now (4/24/2007 11:37:54 PM)

Not nose heavy at all. I ended up with the ignition battery on top of the engine box and the receiver battery right behind the fuel tank.



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