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RE: Yellow P-40 build thread - 1/12/2007 7:43:26 PM   
samparfitt


 

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Wing Panel lines
I'm going to be putting 1/32" chart tape down before putting the primer down.
I'm using auto two part primer.
I'll first used a Sharpe fine tip felt pen (art/craft stores) to put the lines down so it'll be easier to put the chart tape on the wing.
I'm doing this early because: 1. the wing is pretty smooth and I shouldn't have to do much sanding and 2. I won't have a lot of wires and air lines in the way.
Also, without guns, fairings, etc, it's alot easier to wet sand the primer without a lot of 'things' in the way.

pic 1:
reference book from the library.
P-40 warhawk aces of the CBI by Carl Molesworth, Osprey aircraft of the aces- 35.

pic 2:
Panel lines reference sheet.

pic 3:
First I wet sanded (220 grit) the wings.
It's important to sand after each application of material to remove bumps, imbedded dust, etc.

pic 4:
The Fein detail sander has some nice attachments that are good at getting in tight spots.

pic 5/6:
Before/after: I transfered the belly pan outline to the bottom of the wing.

pic 7/8:
Before/after: I transfered the fuse outline to the top of the wing.

pic 9:
top of the wings are done so far with the felt tip pen.
looking from the center of the wing.
I extended the panel lines past the fuse to remove any errors in case my fuse outline is off.
There were two vertical panel lines on the fuse that I transferred to the wing so they would 'line up'.

pic 10:
top of wing looking from the wing tip.

pic 11:
top of wing looking from the front.


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< Message edited by samparfitt -- 1/12/2007 7:50:10 PM >


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RE: Yellow P-40 build thread - 1/12/2007 10:13:21 PM   
samparfitt


 

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Wing panel lines (cont)

pic 1:
Bottom of the wing.
Looking from the wing tip.

pic 2:
looking from the center of the wing.

pic 3:
looking from the back of the wing.
I aligned the 'gun access' covers so the panel lines would align with the servo covers to help hide the covers (if that's possible!).

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RE: Yellow P-40 build thread - 1/13/2007 1:08:55 AM   
samparfitt


 

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wing panel lines (cont)

pic 1/2/3:
bottom of wing.
chart tape added.

pic 4/5:
top of wing.
Tweezers and a new x-acto blade did the job.

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RE: Yellow P-40 build thread - 1/13/2007 3:54:00 AM   
samparfitt


 

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primer coat.

pic 1:
sanded and put the chart tape on the stab.

pic 2/3:
back/front wings primered.

pic 4:
stab primered.

This auto two part stuff is extremely toxic.

(a much more thorough and detailed explanation than I can give on paints and FG are listed below)

A more environmental approach can be read at this web site:
http://www.modelairplanenews.com/how_to/latex1.asp

Here's another water base paint.
I saw a plane another pilot did with this and he said he just used a brush.
He said it just evens out and no brush marks show.
He said a hardener is added to make it fuel proof.
He said a very small amount goes a 'long way'.
http://www.warbirdcolors.com/

Here's more painting info from Tom Pierce:
http://www.tompierce.net/SBD/html/paint.htm

Plus some FG info:
http://www.airfieldmodels.com/information_source/how_to_articles_for_model_builders/finishing_techniques/apply_fiberglass_finish/index.htm


AND, my all time favorite easy to understand explanation!:
http://blueballfixed.ytmnd.com/


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< Message edited by samparfitt -- 1/13/2007 4:30:38 AM >


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RE: Yellow P-40 build thread - 1/13/2007 7:25:44 AM   
ho2zoo



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From: Louisville, KY, USA
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The P-40 is looking great! Nice work! I would like to get one myself!

I have never fiberglassed anything, so I have a couple questions. Forgive me if this has been covered...

When do you attach the pre-formed parts like the wingtips, belly pan, etc. and how? Right after you're finished glassing but before priming? You epoxy them on? How do you avoid a 'lip' or 'step' between the glassed surface and the part?

I have heard of making panel lines with thin chart tape. The tape goes on right before the first coat of primer? When do you pull up the tape? After a couple primer coats? Doesn't that leave a groove without primer in it (where paint might not 'stick' well)? Or would you add one last primer coat after the tape but before the color coat? That would make more sense I guess...

Thanks a lot for doing this thread!


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RE: Yellow P-40 build thread - 1/13/2007 12:32:53 PM   
samparfitt


 

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Each plane is different on deciding when to attach items.
Wing tips are usually put on before glassing.
The surfaces between parts put on should be flush with each other.
If not, then a 'filler' and or/sanding should be done before glassing.
All surfaces should be very smooth before glassing to save a lot of work later to fill/sand those areas.
Belly pans, fairings, etc is up to each builder to either glass to the plane or use some means of securing the part (such as screws).
I'm using screws on the gear fairings (covers) so I can get the retracts out for later maintenance.
IE: the belly pan, I haven't thought that far ahead. I may screw it on or epoxy it on and smooth out the transition between the pan and wing and then glass it.
You can always primer early and then add more parts and primer just those areas as you build.
Breaking down a plane construction into parts makes it managable so the task doesn't seem too over whelming.

When to put chart tape on is another variable.
Normally, it's done near the end of the process, just before painting a model.
You spray primer around all the tape to get a raised area.
No need to re-prime the entire area because no one can see that small of a transition between the tape to the rest of the surface.
In my case, the glass is exposed, but I have wet sanded it to give it 'tooth' for the paint to hold to.
Even if I didn't sand, a 1/32" gap is too small for paint not to adhere.
In my case, I'll be wet sanding before pulling up the tape.
Again, you could also put the tape down just before painting: pull it up right after painting the primer to put the panel lines on and before putting the paint down.
Another variable, after the primer is down and the plane is ready to paint, put the tape down and let the paint create the panel lines.
Primer is normally needed before painting, though.
1. it's always amazing how many flaws are revealed in what you initially thought was a nice smooth surface
2. paint normally needs a primer to 'stick' well to the surface so it won't peal away later on.

There's also what you are building the plane for: just to have a nice looking model or go to the 'Masters'.
On most ARF's, many parts are just screwed on: I think this axium holds true just for ARF's.
Most people don't really see the ridge left between parts and the plane.
For ARF's, people know it's an ARF so they expect that level of detail.
When you start building, people look at it closer to check your work.
When building a plane that requires more work, you can go to the detail you are comfortable with.
If you want a 'show' model, you better have it looking like a real plane when you take a picture of it.
If you want to find your mistakes, take a picture of it.
A picture is so much more 'critical' of your model than if you just look at it from different angles.

With planes as with just about anything, the old adage holds: 'there's more than one way to skin a cat'.


< Message edited by samparfitt -- 1/13/2007 1:06:21 PM >


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RE: Yellow P-40 build thread - 1/13/2007 4:02:34 PM   
samparfitt


 

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wing/stab primer sanding.

pic 1:
Stab wet sanded with 220 grit.

pic 2:
I wet sanded until the tape shows and then removed the tape.

pic 3:
After removing the tape, I wet sanded by hand and using a paint stick until all 'orange peal' is gone.
Some may have a concern about weight leaving this much primer on and should be sanded until most of the primer is gone and only the imperfections are left. This method is also good and the panel lines can then be added later.
Once all the 'orange peal' is sanded away, there's not a whole lot of primer left.
These panel lines will be subtle.
Panel lines could probably be left off for scale looks: when we look at pictures of the full size planes from an average 30-50 feet away, we really don't see those panel lines that we like to put on our planes.
Panel lines are cool though and we're always going to add them.

pic 4:
Bottom of wing after first wet sanding exposing the tape.
One nice thing about primering the surfaces before assembly is the ease of wet sanding.
It's difficult to sand a 90 degree corner smoothly versus just sanding the whole stab at once.
It's like woodworking, all parts are always sanded before assembly because imperfections will exist trying to sand in corners.



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< Message edited by samparfitt -- 1/13/2007 4:15:52 PM >


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RE: Yellow P-40 build thread - 1/13/2007 4:54:21 PM   
samparfitt


 

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Here's another nice reference.
Flight Journal puts out special issues devoted to just one plane.
Once you're on their list, they'll email you when the new special issue is out.
Shipping is free or a very nominal amount.
I think I've got every special issue put out on vintage warbirds.
I really enjoy reading first person stories from pilots and ground crew.
The P-40 special issue is from Summer of 2004 so I don't know if it's still available.
You can check their web site.

http://www.rcstore.com/rs/general/listproducts.asp?catid=6&catego=BO

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< Message edited by samparfitt -- 1/13/2007 5:04:21 PM >


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RE: Yellow P-40 build thread - 1/14/2007 12:46:49 AM   
samparfitt


 

Posts: 1591
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From: West Chester, OH, USA
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Managed to get the flaps primered.
Only put a second coat of resin and wet sand the bottom (outside) side of the flaps (no use making 'fancy' a side that will never be seen!).

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RE: Yellow P-40 build thread - 1/14/2007 2:04:23 AM   
samparfitt


 

Posts: 1591
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From: West Chester, OH, USA
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wing routing holes

pic 1:
I initially put a hole in the top of the wing and ran a perpendicular hole down to the factory installed hole along the inside bottom of the wing so I could route the wires/air lines to the lower hole and then up through the top hole.

pic 2:
It dawned on me to just put an angled hole from the top of the wing to the inside access of the retract well.
Now I can epoxy the wing together without having to pre-route the wires due to the 90 degree angle gone.
All future maintenance will also be a lot easier.
Easy to make the hole when a foam core is used: just use a piece of brass tubing and twist it through the foam.

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< Message edited by samparfitt -- 1/14/2007 2:05:54 AM >


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RE: Yellow P-40 build thread - 1/15/2007 12:23:42 AM   
samparfitt


 

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wings joined.

pic 1/2:
There are two 1/4" thick plys to hold the two wing sections together.
I drew pen lines in the center of both plys to insure both plys stayed centered.
I used lots of epoxy to get the slots on each wing covered plus the plys plus the two mating surfaces.
I used about 1/2 bottle each of hardener and resin mixed in three batches go get everything covered.
Since no servos or retracts are on the wing, it was easy to put the two wings together and just set the wing on edge to harden.

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< Message edited by samparfitt -- 1/15/2007 12:26:09 AM >


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