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RE: DC-3/C-47 question - 7/30/2007 11:16 AM   
OsmanKhan


 

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From: Lahore, PAKISTAN
Status: offline 		Hello Jan

14lbs is about 6.4kg. And the wing span is 95 inches, wing area comes out to be close to 900sq.in.

I've seen your excellent bird in quite a few forums here and you have a good experience with this particular plane. How would you rate my chances as far as the wingloading is concerned. I know your feelings towards using bigger engines but apart from that do you think if it is essential to bring the weight down.

Regards
Osman

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RE: DC-3/C-47 question - 7/30/2007 10:05 PM   
twinman



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Status: offline 		I did a tow plane glider project some time ago at http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_4196075/anchors_4269998/mpage_1/key_lift%252CMiester/anchor/tm.htm#4269998
It does show how I did the release mechanism. Don't forget that per AMA, both planes must have a release mechanism.
Hope this helps, as was my first experience with gliders.
Have fun.
Twinman

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RE: DC-3/C-47 question - 7/31/2007 1:38 AM   
jaka


 

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Status: offline 		Hi!

No! 6,4 kg for a DC-3 with a span of 2,41m seems to be OK to me!

I read a very good article in the Aug 2007 issue of Model-Aviation magazine about mixing the throttles on a twin to ahieve equal rpm and throttle respons. They had several articles about twin engine. airplanes.
Very good stuff!

I don't know how big engines your going to use but I would assume that 6,5cc two strokes swinging 11x6 APC props would fly your DC- well. Bigger engines than this should be avoided. .52-.56 fourstrokes could also be used.

Regards!
Jan Karlsson
Sweden

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RE: DC-3/C-47 question - 8/3/2007 3:49 PM   
OsmanKhan


 

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Status: offline 		Thanks Jan. As I said earlier I will be using ASP 2 stroke .52s. I had my reservations about these chinese engines, but once having done the initial break-in they seem pretty impressive, specially the idling performance. Hope they do the same in the air.
What was your all up weight and approx. wing loading for your DC-3.

posting some pics of the project and its present state.

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RE: DC-3/C-47 question - 8/3/2007 6:16 PM   
jaka


 

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From: Upplands Vasby, SWEDEN
Status: offline 		Hi!
Nice looking plane!
My goal for the DC-3 was to build it at 3kg, final weight.
I was a bit dissapointed when I meassured it and the scales showed 3,6kg. But the airplane flew just fine and is very docile in the air and could be flown to a near stand still without any stalling tendensies what so ever. Flies like a high winged trainer or slower.
The only thing I'm a bit pussled about is when flown at medium speed (rather slow) and some of the flaps are deploid...then it raises it's nose... and not even full down elevator can level it out. Maybe it has something to do with where the center of gravity is, but I have tried 5 different positons and still this curious thing of raising the nose at medium speed and some flaps out.

Regards!
Jan K


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RE: DC-3/C-47 question - 8/5/2007 12:54 AM   
marko509


 

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Status: offline 		Hi guys,

Osman, the plane is looking good! What did you use for a covering on the fuse? I'm impressed with the level of detail.

My construction's been put on hold for the time being... I was working on trimming off part of one of the ribs on one half of the elevator when my X-acto slipped and I'm sure you can imagine what happened next. Sliced my left index finger to the bone, right behind the fingernail. Other than my wife complaining about trying to clean up all of the blood everywhere, it is healing up quite nicely. But it will be a while before I will be able to resume work.

Mark

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RE: DC-3/C-47 question - 8/10/2007 3:52 PM   
OsmanKhan


 

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Status: offline 		Yikes! Just reading your accident details sends shivers all the way down the spine. Hope you can recover soon. And on the lighter side, the blood shouldn't go to waste.

I used 0.6oz fiber cloth to cover the entire plane and used 2 part epoxy to stick it to the balsa.

At present the paint job is just about finished. I am doing the RAF (Pegasus squarden) camaflauge scheme. Will post some latest pics next time.

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RE: DC-3/C-47 question - 8/10/2007 6:40 PM   
Edwin


 

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Status: offline 		Now thats a nice looking gooney bird!
Edwin

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RE: DC-3/C-47 question - 8/21/2007 3:37 PM   
OsmanKhan


 

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Status: offline 		Just about finished with the paint job. Wanted to post the latest pics of the project. I think I was enjoying the spray painting so much, this being my first project with paints, that I put about a couple of pounds extra in weight in getting the scheme done. The all up weight is going to be in the 14.5 lbs range. Will have my fingers crossed with the test flight.

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RE: DC-3/C-47 question - 8/25/2007 12:06 PM   
OsmanKhan


 

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Status: offline 		Hello Mark/Edwin,
Need guidance on how to set up engine thrust for this twin project. Do your Paris White plans give any thrust offset angles for the two engines. If not, any experienced advice on this issue.

Since the engine flame out issue is quite critical in twins, I am planning to put in on-board glow and mix it in with the low throttle setting. On top of that do you think fuel regulation with either Cline or IronBay would be a good idea, or is Perry pump better?. I am using ASP 2stroke .51s, and each will be fed with a separate fuel tank. The tanks will be placed on top of the wing center section and will be higher than the carbs (so a little bit of gravity will also help the fuel supply!). Any advice will be appreciated.

Regards
Osman

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RE: DC-3/C-47 question - 8/25/2007 5:25 PM   
Edwin


 

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Status: offline 		My plans show 3deg of down thrust. Now for the official terminology, two washers for out thrust. <g> Doesnt say anything about what size washer. The only twin experience I have is with a hobbico twinstar. A really great twin trainer. I measured 3deg of down and out thrust on both engines. It has great single engine performance. The problem with doing that on a scale plane is sometimes it can look awkward due to the cowl setups. I built a wing mfg P-38 and tried to use the same arrangement as the twinstar. It looked pretty bad so I changed it to 0deg. The P-38 crashed on takeoff, but it was due to another issue so I never got a chance to see how it flew. I didnt have enough elevator travel and the big mistake was setting the gear up so the P-38 sat level. As it rolled down the runway, speed was not a problem. But you could see it was plowing (nose gear had pressure on it and was a little nose down) which ment the overall wing had lots of pressure on the top surface. I didnt have enough elevator travel to over come it so it wouldnt rotate and ran off the end of the runway. Thats when I discovered there was a hidden rock pile in a clump of weeds. It completely took out the fuze pod on the P-38. A hard lesson.
As for fuel tanks, 2 strokes and distant fuel tanks make me nervous. I love 4 strokes but thats not what we're talking about here. So I am just speculating on what I've read about other people doing. It sounds like a small header tank would be desirable. Something in the 2oz area. The distance from the main tank is pretty far so I think fuel draw might be an issue, a pump would probably have to be used. I would keep the fuel systems separate between the two engines, 2 big tank, 2 header tanks. This keeps one from affecting the other. I dont have any idea where to put the pump. I would think that between the big tank and small tank would be best, but I dont know. I also have never used a pump so I cant tell you which would be the best. I hear a lot of peole use cline and perry pumps but I dont know anything about them. I do know that off center fuel tanks can be a problem with 2 strokes. I get my best reliability with the center of the fuel tank about 1/4" lower than the spray bar on the carb. This is a rule of thumb I follow on all my engines thats served me pretty well over the years. It keeps head pressure reasonable through the entire flight. I'm anxious to hear how the maiden goes. I really want to know if the CG is right. What you told me verses what I calculated came out really close so I'm pretty comfortable with it. And your finish job looks great. VIDEO, NEED VIDEO, smiling faces and all!!!
Edwin

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RE: DC-3/C-47 question - 8/26/2007 12:43 AM   
jaka


 

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My Marutaka DC-3 has no off set trust at all ...just zero degrees on engines ,wing and stab.
I don't think the original had any off set trust either.


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< Message edited by jaka -- 8/26/2007 12:45 AM >

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RE: DC-3/C-47 question - 8/28/2007 11:55 PM   
OsmanKhan


 

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Status: offline 		Thanks for the feedback on thrust issue guys. Feel real sorry for the P-38's maiden disaster Edwin. Will ask my Aero Club to mow down any vegetation or its likes from existence within a mile of the runway to reveal possible disaster points.

Jan did your Marutaka DC-3 have scale flaps, i.e., with interlinked flaps for the center and outer wing panels on each side. If possible can you send a snapshot of how they are linked at this point. I am using two separate servos for the right and left side flaps. Would appreciate knowing how you set up your inter-flap linkaging.

rgds
Osman

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RE: DC-3/C-47 question - 10/4/2007 4:32 PM   
flypapa


 

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Status: offline 		SIR , DO YOU HAVE DRAWINGS ON THE LANDING GEAR YOU BUILT? AND HOW DID YOU DO THE OUTER WING RIBS? YOU DID A GREAT JOB ON THE GEAR.

THANKS

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RE: DC-3/C-47 question - 10/5/2007 6:12 PM   
jaka


 

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Yes ! My Marutaka DC-3 has 4 flaps (split center flaps) these are controlled by two small Hs 85 servos linked together via a Y-kabel.
I would stongly advise anyone trying to fly a twin to keep everything simple (the KISS rule) and light!
Lightness is very important. A light airplane will always perform good provided the overall plane is well built from the start. A heavy one will always be a handfull to fly will not last long.

It's also good to compete in pylonracing if you want to be good att flying any twin or warbird. Because pylonracing hones your skills in setting engines and flying fast and most importantly ..you learn how to handle airplanes in most/every situation at low altitude.

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< Message edited by jaka -- 10/5/2007 6:25 PM >

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RE: DC-3/C-47 question - 10/8/2007 12:00 AM   
flypapa


 

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Status: offline 		What is the best retract for this dc-3, the MAN 96"WING ? Has anyone built and used the ones on the plans?

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RE: DC-3/C-47 question - 10/10/2007 2:18 PM   
OsmanKhan


 

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Status: offline 		Hi Jan,

Thanks for sending in all the photos for the flap linkaging. If I understand it correctly, you have one servo for the inner flaps, and another one for the outer wing flaps. And I guess you have then mixed in the two servos for equal displacement of the inner and outer flaps. Do the outer flaps have bell-cranks to make the setup work?. This set up seems perfect for a one piece wing. In my case I have a 96" wingspan, and thought it best to have a set up with a center wing panel and two outer detachable wing panels, for easy transport. So I guess the flap system you have wont work. If you have any suggestions I would appreciate the help.

Flypapa, I have got Autocad drawings for the retract system and the outer-ribs. Let me know if you have the software to run these. If not I can convert them to pdf format for you. The retract mechanism is of my own design and has not been tested so far on the field (first test flight still a month away). It is definetly heavier than the proposed retract system in the original plans. But then again mine is close to a scale. The thing to be tested is whether it will take the load of my (close to 14 lbs) plane. If interested let me have your email address and I will send in the files as attachments.

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RE: DC-3/C-47 question - 10/10/2007 5:58 PM   
flypapa


 

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Status: offline 		Thanks, i do not have autocad but would like for you to send me the info.on the wing ribs and retracts
Plan to built this aircraft but too much left out such as the CG But i did learn where that was at now.

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RE: DC-3/C-47 question - 10/11/2007 5:00 AM   
marko509


 

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Status: offline 		Hi Osman,

If you could be so kind as to send the .pdf version of your cad drawings for your landing gear, I'd appreciate it! My finger is all healed but there is some nerve damage, so construction has been slow. I have been thinking about how to build these retracts and I would like to get them as close as possible to scale. I'm interested in what you came up with.

Best regards,
Mark

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RE: DC-3/C-47 question - 10/11/2007 11:54 AM   
OsmanKhan


 

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Status: offline 		Mark/Flypapa,

You guys are most welcome to get the .pdf files. Since I can't attach .pdf files in this thread (only .gif, .txt, .jpeg are supported), it would be easier if you can tell me your emails and I can then send them as attachments. If there is some privacy issue (and since I don't) you can email me and I will reply to them with the file attachments (my email is osman203@yahoo).

Mark that finger accident must have been real painful and I hope you recover soon. Best of luck.

Regards
Osman

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RE: DC-3/C-47 question - 10/11/2007 1:08 PM   
flypapa


 

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Status: offline 		NOR DO I

michael-geiser@hotmail.com


THANKS

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RE: DC-3/C-47 question - 10/11/2007 6:57 PM   
jaka


 

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Status: offline 		Hi!
Osman...you are correct! I have two servos controlling the flaps, the outer flaps controlled via bell cranks, both servos connected via Y-cable to a rotary nob on my JR X388 transmitter.
In your case I would shot for a servo in each wing connected via a Y-cable.

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RE: DC-3/C-47 question - 10/15/2007 6:00 AM   
flypapa


 

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Status: offline 		OsmanKhan , The .pdf version of your cad drawings for your landing gear will be fine . Had a friend cut the outer wing panel from foam. By the way yours look great. Also if have any photos of your gear on the inside of the wing

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RE: DC-3/C-47 question - 12/19/2007 11:41 PM   
OsmanKhan


 

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Status: offline 		Just wanted to update on the project. The plane is almost ready to have its maiden. Waiting for some electronics for an onboard glow system and hopefully a couple of Ironbay fuel regulators for optimized engine performance. I took the bird for a taxi run recently. The ASP 0.52 2stroke engines worked like a charm. Had no issues tuning them to sync. High speed taxi was close to ideal with no ground loop tendency. Most of all the self designed retract mechanism held up nicely. The experience has really given me the much needed confidence to do the maiden flight once all the systems are in place.

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RE: DC-3/C-47 question - 12/20/2007 4:12 AM   
Edwin


 

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Status: offline 		Looks real good. Get some video if you can.
Edwin

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