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Q-40 "bad air" crashes - 1/17/2007 4:13:21 PM   
dwbebens


 

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I’ve been very puzzled about the many comments I’ve seen on racing forums and heard from people about the phenomenon of “bad air” causing crashes in Q-40 pylon racing. It seems that one plane following another around a pylon gets into the turbulence from the leading plane and then immediately crashes.

First off, I don’t fly Q-40, but I’ve never heard of this problem much in other racing events. In any racing events I’ve raced in, at worst, the following plane will “bobble” a little, but will not deviate so much as to result in a crash. Since I’m the kind of person that needs to know WHY this problem of “bad air” crashes happens in Q-40 and not other racing events, I started thinking and calculating. There must be a reason. Here’s what I’ve come up with:

Speed V = 180 mph = 265 ft/sec

Turn radius r = 75 ft

Weight of plane W = 4 LB

Wing area A = 400 sq. in = 2.78 sq. ft

Span S = 56 in


The centripetal acceleration resulting during a turn, a = V^2/r = 265^2/75 = 933 ft/sec^2 = 29.2 g’s

Therefore the wings must provide a lift of L = 4 lbs. x 29.2 g’s = 116.8 lbs. during a 75 ft radius turn.

The lift equation is: L = q x Cl x A

Where: q = dynamic pressure = .5 x d x V^2 = .5 x .00238 x 265^2 = 83.3

and Cl = the Coefficient of lift

and d = air density in slugs/ cu ft = .00238 at sea level

Rearranging the lift equation to solve for Cl: Cl = L/(q x A) = 116.8/(83.3 x 2.78) = 0.50

Therefore, we are asking the wing to generate a lift coefficient of 0.50 at a 75-ft radius turn.

Take note that at higher altitudes (Phoenix for example) q is a smaller number because the air density is less. This means that the coefficient of lift required will be even greater than at sea level!

I’m guessing that the root chord is about 8”+ and the tip chord is about 6”+ on a typical Q-40 plane. The root thickness to chord ratio is about 10% and the tip ratio is about 8%. The Reynolds number Re of the tip would be about 860,000 and of the root would be about 1,000,000. Also, the lift distribution out the wing panel is not uniform. The lift profile falls off rapidly going out to the tip. The airfoil sections in the outer portion are operating at a disadvantage as compared to those in the inner portion.

I examined and analyzed a bunch of airfoils in these chord and thickness ranges. I used Martin Hepperle’s “Java-Foil” program. I found that there is a good possibility that the outer portions of the wings could be going into an “accelerated stall” in certain situations An accelerated stall happens when a wing stalls due to additional “g” loads being applied such as during a turn or a steep pull-up maneuver. This kind of stall can occur at full flying speed! According to my calculations, it looks like the outer ends of the wings are normally operating right at their maximum coefficient of lift during a turn. In other words, the wing ends are lifting about as much as they can. So, let’s say that only the lower wing encounters turbulence from a leading plane going through a typical high-g turn. This could “trip” the wing into a partial stall (outer portion probably) resulting in a quick over-banking , and thus the new turning trajectory would quickly and unfortunately intersect the ground (the plane crashes). This would occur very quickly and give the pilot almost no time to react. Once the wing stalls, the only way to un-stall it is to decrease angle of attack. If this happened hundreds of feet up, possibly the pilot could recover, but at near pylon height, no chance. The converse should also be true. If only the outer wing encountered turbulence, then the plane could rapidly go to an under-banked condition part way through the turn resulting in a rapid altitude increasing “zoom-out” type of turn exit.

If this were indeed the case, then leaving this occurrence up to chance would be unacceptable to me, personally. A remedy would be to alter the wing so that it operates with more of a “cushion” for the maximum coefficient of lift; leave some “wiggle room” so to speak. Using a different airfoil at the outer portions of the wing could most easily do this. You could use a higher lift airfoil (greater camber) and/or it could be thicker. Highly tapered wings, of course, are more susceptible to accelerated tip stalls. Or, you could just fly slower or make wider turns! When I get into Q-40, I hope everyone else adopts the “fly slower and make wider turns” strategy.

I hope everyone found this to be informative, if not entertaining. The mathematics STRONGLY suggests that this analysis is valid. Surely this phenomenon is not simply a matter of “dumb thumbs”. The guys flying at this level are just too good for that to be the case.

Doug Bebensee


< Message edited by dwbebens -- 1/17/2007 4:17:26 PM >
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RE: Q-40 "bad air" crashes - 1/17/2007 4:51:40 PM   
daven



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You just went about 1,000 feet over my head, but I will say I was sceptical about "bad air" when I first started racing.

Right up to that point when I buried my first Q40 around #3 on a calm day in Phonenix.

Too me its the worst when your about 15-30 feet behind someone flying a similar line (same height). When I'm following someone I try to go about 10-15 feet higher than them, and it helps alot. Also, different planes seem to give off different degrees of bad air. I definately hate following Vortex Quickies, not sure what it is (maybe washout), but they can leave some nasty pockets of air.

I've lost 2 planes to what I would call bad air, but I've hit it many times. Normally you can get the plane back under control, but if you hit it just right, all the right aileron and right rudder in the world won't save you. I almost think your best off to try and roll inverted and push the elevator stick forward.

Then again, just get in the lead and bad air is much less of a concern

A

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RE: Q-40 "bad air" crashes - 1/17/2007 5:38:35 PM   
HighPlains


 

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Very good first order analysis Doug! A few points -

The weight of the airplane is a bit low, since they need fuel.

The radius can be quite a bit tighter due to trying to avoid the first airplane and natural course corrections, say up to 40 g's.

The air from the first airplane is a down wash, so the second airplane's wing might be seeing a rapid change in relative angle of attack for one wing panel.

It usually stalls the left wing panel, so the plane snaps into the ground. So the second plane is usually slightly higher than the lead airplane. I did have the right wing stall one time in Whitter Narrows. My airplane did a triple snap roll, and landed with a compressive wing failure.

Calculate the roll rate when you remove most of the lift on one side.

The effect on a Q40 is minor compared to what happened to a Formula One due the much higher wing loading.

The only solution is to always fly inside of the first airplane in the turn or at a different altitude.

< Message edited by HighPlains -- 1/17/2007 5:56:09 PM >


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RE: Q-40 "bad air" crashes - 1/17/2007 7:17:40 PM   
Super Splatter



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I was having a fun afternoon this past summer, found myself with a competitive model chasing Daven on the same flight level, having a good ole time, come around three and opps..... the tail lifted 30 degrees and down she went.

Never seen a Q40 change it's attitude & ultimately it's altitude so quickly. It does happen, don't follow behind..

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RE: Q-40 "bad air" crashes - 1/17/2007 7:18:54 PM   
rmenke


 

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Doug: Verly verly interesting.
Only one outstnding question. At 180 mph or 265 feet per second, and flying 15-20 feet off the ground, why does it seem like its a very long time for your $800. to $1,000 airplane to hit the ground? After watching thest things for a while, it's flat amazing the saves the great pilots like daven make under strange and very quick circumstances. 173/100 of a second is by observation a very short time to react to a problem, but these guys do it time after time. The unfair part is that we are not all created equally as to physical abilitys. You can say that practice makes perfect, which is honestly a very important factor in all forms of racing, but then you see someone like Chip Hyde fly his "Double Vision" wfo about 5-10 feet off the ground, snap the plane backward, control the thing flying tail first for 15-20 feet and then bring it around prop in front without sticking it in the ground. Its pilots like this that keeps me in my back yard shaking my head and mumbeling to myself. Regardlss, ENJOY

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RE: Q-40 "bad air" crashes - 1/17/2007 7:52:52 PM   
aseaholm



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Here is some footage of the dreaded "bad air", aka getting "farted on".

Craig Grunkemeyer and I were at battle in Q500 a couple years ago.

"Full" Race:
http://www.teamseaholm.com/movies/IndyShootout05/aj428rd3_Muncie05.wmv

Super Slo-mo of Bad Air
http://www.rccagallery.com/albums/AJ-Seaholm/Bad_Air_SloMo2.wmv

The thing I learned from this little crash and burn was to pull a bunch of down elevator out in my set-up. I usually run about 30% less down elevator then up. In this case, I basically double pumped it into the ground after a pretty decent save. Live and learn I suppose...

I had also thought catching bad air with the right panel caused the plane to head for the ground. In other words, being below the leader. The video seems to show other wise. I had to make sure HighPlains was right as usual.

Good topic. It's a serious nerve jerker when it happens.

AJ Seaholm

< Message edited by aseaholm -- 1/17/2007 7:55:12 PM >


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RE: Q-40 "bad air" crashes - 1/17/2007 9:11:39 PM   
HighPlains


 

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I don't think that I ever seen anyone save a F1 from the effect, as it gets worse with wing loading. Quickies seem much less susceptible to it based on observation.

Nearly as dangerous is racing on dead calm days, since the wing vortexes will remain on the course in the turns long enough to do a lap and hit them. These usually feel like a slight glitch or burble. They drift downward over time while also increasing in diameter as they lose energy.

AJ, I think we raced in Spokane a long time ago. I’m thinking it was the race where the number two or three cage was hit and it came apart hitting the female pylon judge.
BTW, how's the baby? How is the shorty?

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RE: Q-40 "bad air" crashes - 1/17/2007 10:31:11 PM   
aseaholm



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HighPlains, I think you're right. I was there and it was #3. Fortunately, I don't believe anyone was seriously hurt.

It's a small world. I remember that race well. Brian Richmond taught my brother how to carve props that weekend. Would have been 1990, my first season of F1. That was also my first race experience with bad air. The Denight I was flying came around 3 and just settled to about weed level before it caught and came back up, narrowly missing the dreaded belly flop. Being 13, having minimal investment in the plane, and not knowing any better, it didn't rattle me too bad back then. Now, the $$$ signs flash before my eyes and the pucker factor intensifies. Bad air is like a hang-over, the farther away from the last one you are, the easier they are to find...

A breeze seems to help break up the turbulent air. I have witnessed Q40's catch their own bad air while practicing on calm days, some don't make it. Phoenix seems to be particularly bad for this, probably because it enjoys SOOO many calm days. Not much of issue back here in the blustery Midwest, but solos do happen. I'm sure Matt Fehling lost a Putty Tat during practice this year at the NATS to it. He was flying VERY smooth and consistent pin high, after about 5 laps it just fell out of the air coming around 2...

Baby is doing well, she's a blast. Shorty is going back to the drawing board, nose moment is too short. She's a little twitchy capt'n, and 2 oz. in the back plate wasn't quite enough.


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RE: Q-40 "bad air" crashes - 1/18/2007 3:47:02 AM   
HighPlains


 

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Deer Park, Wa. on an old runway in late September 1990. Four of us flew up in a Piper from Sunnyvale, Ca for one of the races there.

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RE: Q-40 "bad air" crashes - 1/18/2007 6:20:26 AM   
Bill Vargas



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I wonder if using the FAI course for Q40(increasing "R" from the above formula), would cause these "bad air" casualties to be less frequent?

BV

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RE: Q-40 "bad air" crashes - 1/18/2007 7:59:34 AM   
HighPlains


 

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I don't know Bill. Some people might use a double pull if the distance between pylons were longer. I think the best is for people to understand what it is and how to avoid it. I have always said a cut is better than a crash, so I alway try to stay inside the radius of the lead airplane when behind.

It is always unnerving as hell to hear one go in when it hits just to your right out of sight. Not quite as bad as hearing one hit pylon three and then hear half a plane spinning in the air with the engine still going.

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RE: Q-40 "bad air" crashes - 1/18/2007 11:20:11 AM   
ezmo


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: aseaholm

Here is some footage of the dreaded "bad air", aka getting "farted on".

Craig Grunkemeyer and I were at battle in Q500 a couple years ago.

"Full" Race:
http://www.teamseaholm.com/movies/IndyShootout05/aj428rd3_Muncie05.wmv

Super Slo-mo of Bad Air
http://www.rccagallery.com/albums/AJ-Seaholm/Bad_Air_SloMo2.wmv

The thing I learned from this little crash and burn was to pull a bunch of down elevator out in my set-up. I usually run about 30% less down elevator then up. In this case, I basically double pumped it into the ground after a pretty decent save. Live and learn I suppose...

I had also thought catching bad air with the right panel caused the plane to head for the ground. In other words, being below the leader. The video seems to show other wise. I had to make sure HighPlains was right as usual.

Good topic. It's a serious nerve jerker when it happens.

AJ Seaholm


but what happened, it seems that the plane first had "bad air" and it was saved and then it kind of fast stalled again like full pull???

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RE: Q-40 "bad air" crashes - 1/18/2007 2:19:55 PM   
SmokinJoe



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I've seen the same thing happen twice with S1D Racers, once in Perth and once in Queensland. These are slow sports quickies with a very thick wing doing about 180Km/hour with a 46 and 10x6 prop. On each occassion, the bad air was hit by the trailing plane (which was a metre or two lower as well) coming around No. 3 pylon. Bad air problems are not confined to 428/422 models.




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RE: Q-40 "bad air" crashes - 1/18/2007 2:52:53 PM   
diggs_74



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I wasn't sure what the bad air thing was until the champ race in Houston which was also my first Q40 race.. I came around #3 and the plane shot up and out and seemed forever before it started responding again.. Better than going the other way I guess, like my quickie in Tangerine.. I've never seen anything fall out of the sky like that.. When it hit the ground I looked at my thumbs and I had every bit of right everything in it but to no avail..


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