RE: Civil Discourse

RE: Civil Discourse
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as Guest

Users viewing this topic: none

Printable Version

This thread is locked

All Forums >> RC Airplanes >> AMA Discussions >> RE: Civil Discourse

Page: << < prev 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 [12] 13 14 next > >>

Login

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

RE: Civil Discourse - 4/3/2007 1:04:17 AM

SPLIT S

Posts: 539
Joined: 4/11/2006
From: Blandon, PA, USA
Status: offline

For Heaven's sake it's a MODEL AIRPLANE CLUB!!!!!. If I hear one more comparison to Commies, Colonists or Nazis I am going to puke all over my keyboard here, something my wife would never forgive me for. Get over it and go fly!!!!

Dan

_____________________________

Pumpkin patches make horrible runways.

(in reply to Liberator)

Post #: 276

RE: Civil Discourse - 4/3/2007 1:17:15 AM

Stubborn Mule

Posts: 43
Joined: 10/21/2006
From: , , USA
Status: offline

Actually, I fail to see any redeeming value in supporting any side in this. And I do suspect the real truth lies somewhere in the middle.

The Mule

(in reply to SPLIT S)

Post #: 277

RE: Civil Discourse - 4/3/2007 1:21:16 AM

Liberator

Posts: 797
Joined: 3/2/2005
From: Sandy, UT, USA
Status: online

It goes on in Plyon racing, usually started by John, it goes on in the car forum a TON, I have seen it go on in the freakin Aerodynamics board for goodness sake.

Don't kid yourself, it happens all over.

_____________________________

One man's crash is another man's carefully planned landing maneuver.

(in reply to rcmiket)

Post #: 278

RE: Civil Discourse - 4/3/2007 2:57:47 AM

SSRCCPREZ

Posts: 462
Joined: 10/23/2004
From: MAnsfield, MA, USA
Status: offline

HiJugz,

You are absolutely right that every party involved in this matter has the right to speak out in defence of their own side and what they perceive to be the truth. To that end I ap[plaud the courage it takes for Mr. Casey to put himself out there(here) for support or riticule. However, I find it hard not to take offence to be compared to the likes of TED KENNEDY!!!(lol)
I mean come on..,.would you like it if I compared you to Gavin Newsome? a.k.a any twosome Newsome?
I mean come on Ted Kennedy? that's hittin below the belt, other than that I agree with your comment everyone has the right to speak and suffer the consequences.

_____________________________

"I haven't Forgotten"

(in reply to JUGFLIER)

Post #: 279

RE: Civil Discourse - 4/3/2007 2:13:40 PM

JUGFLIER

Posts: 951
Joined: 1/29/2007
From: Muscle Shoals, AL, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SSRCCPREZ

HiJugz,

You are absolutely right that every party involved in this matter has the right to speak out in defence of their own side and what they perceive to be the truth. To that end I ap[plaud the courage it takes for Mr. Casey to put himself out there(here) for support or riticule. However, I find it hard not to take offence to be compared to the likes of TED KENNEDY!!!(lol)
I mean come on..,.would you like it if I compared you to Gavin Newsome? a.k.a any twosome Newsome?
I mean come on Ted Kennedy? that's hittin below the belt, other than that I agree with your comment everyone has the right to speak and suffer the consequences.

My apologies if i misunderstood you point in the previous post. My comparison was Massachussetts to Ted K. The point i read into your post was that you felt your club and any other could just throw people out and anyone who complains should get the the black boot stomp. Sam's rc club is now paying for the actions of its board. There is a saying that you need to count the cost. SAM's board felt they could take this action with no recourse, they were wrong. In all twelve pages of this thread as well as the other threads, there has not been given not one single solitary justifiable reason for the actions of the board. Contrary we have read posts made by founding members, some thrown out too, that the board was not acting in the spirit of the bylaws and constitution.

(in reply to SSRCCPREZ)

Post #: 280

RE: Civil Discourse - 4/3/2007 2:18:58 PM

JUGFLIER

Posts: 951
Joined: 1/29/2007
From: Muscle Shoals, AL, USA
Status: offline

John C. is told to move on. Well how can he move on when you just read a post that told him not to show up at the field. Why is SAM's club practicing apartied. I faced a very similar situation, i was even thrown out of a club. This kind of dicourse led to the offenders realizing their mistake and taking steps to reconcile. SAM's has made no effort to reconcile, they just have made even more inflamatory posts toward Casey.

(in reply to JUGFLIER)

Post #: 281

RE: Civil Discourse - 4/3/2007 2:32:58 PM

BUTCHIEBOY

Posts: 45
Joined: 2/23/2007
From: OFFSHORE, USA
Status: offline

Jug the problem is that you have accepted the message of a few as the gospel, which is conjecture being supposed as truth. When will you realize that what everyone is saying, that this man is demonized by his misfortune(whether self imposed or not), should let this moronic vendetta go, and enjoy the hobby. It amazes me that you can keep your head in the sand and not see the daylight in this thread. He made his point, he got hammered for it, now move on down the road. Jug you must play devil's advocate with every arguement you get into.
Do not accept conjecture as fact Jug!!!!!!!!

(in reply to JUGFLIER)

Post #: 282

RE: Civil Discourse - 4/3/2007 2:58:25 PM

JUGFLIER

Posts: 951
Joined: 1/29/2007
From: Muscle Shoals, AL, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BUTCHIEBOY

Jug the problem is that you have accepted the message of a few as the gospel, which is conjecture being supposed as truth. When will you realize that what everyone is saying, that this man is demonized by his misfortune(whether self imposed or not), should let this moronic vendetta go, and enjoy the hobby. It amazes me that you can keep your head in the sand and not see the daylight in this thread. He made his point, he got hammered for it, now move on down the road. Jug you must play devil's advocate with every arguement you get into.
Do not accept conjecture as fact Jug!!!!!!!!

Sorry Butchie, i don't agree. By the way i haven't argued in any other thread but this. Butchie you say i can't see the daylight in this thread, what i see is what is missing. Did he shoot down planes? No Did he threaten other club members? No Did he violate the by-laws of the club? No . His crime was to try to rally the members of the club to reign in a bosard out of control. For this he was ejected. When other members, two were founding members, tried to get the board to see the error of its ways, they were showed the door. I have a real problem with this. DO YOU MEAN TO TELL ME THATY IF YOU DISAGREE IN ANYWAY WITH THE LEADERSHIP OF YOUR CLUB THIS IS AUTOMATIC GROUNDS FOR EXPULSION? YOU ARE ON DANGEROUS GROUND MY FRIEND.

(in reply to BUTCHIEBOY)

Post #: 283

RE: Civil Discourse - 4/3/2007 4:12:52 PM

littlecrankshaf

Posts: 2135
Joined: 12/9/2001
From: here
Status: offline

JUGFLIER makes the point that is important. Even if everyone disagrees with John Casey's methods it is important that a handful of people, especially a BOD, cannot simply remove him or anyone else for that matter without due process. This is the point of this discussion, as far as I am concerned and I find it appalling that everyone that has weighed in on this discussion hasn't echoed that contention.

I truly believe if proper procedure had been used, the outcome would have been much different and we would not be here pecking at our keyboards about it. I just can’t fathom anyone disagreeing with that logic but alas it will continue……

_____________________________

Wow! Another epiphany…that is why the suckups suckup. Super sucking protection power. Yea baby.

(in reply to JUGFLIER)

Post #: 284

RE: Civil Discourse - 4/3/2007 5:59:48 PM

SSRCCPREZ

Posts: 462
Joined: 10/23/2004
From: MAnsfield, MA, USA
Status: offline

Crank you and I rarely agree...but in this case you are CORRECT.
Any BOD has got to follow written and approved policies and procedures. I do believe that a BOD needs to have power to do the will of the club, but not arbitrarily, certainly not un-checked. Even the board I am on has the power to eject a club member, but what I can tell you is that we would have a VERY difficult time acting without clb majority. Frankly, we would be the ones ousted....

That's where I see this story gets weird....Where are the other SAM club members? Where is there discontent? Where is the majority directing the board by vote?
So far we have heard of three maybe four upset members...That's hardly a majority......
Nonetheless Agreed no BOD should have ALLMIGHTY POWER.
But in this case I think the majority has spoken at SAM. John does not have to be happy about it, and he has had his day in COURT..what more does he want?
Frankly i would like to know what damages was awarded him?!

_____________________________

"I haven't Forgotten"

(in reply to littlecrankshaf)

Post #: 285

RE: Civil Discourse - 4/3/2007 7:17:59 PM

JUGFLIER

Posts: 951
Joined: 1/29/2007
From: Muscle Shoals, AL, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SSRCCPREZ

Crank you and I rarely agree...but in this case you are CORRECT.
Any BOD has got to follow written and approved policies and procedures. I do believe that a BOD needs to have power to do the will of the club, but not arbitrarily, certainly not un-checked. Even the board I am on has the power to eject a club member, but what I can tell you is that we would have a VERY difficult time acting without clb majority. Frankly, we would be the ones ousted....

That's where I see this story gets weird....Where are the other SAM club members? Where is there discontent? Where is the majority directing the board by vote?
So far we have heard of three maybe four upset members...That's hardly a majority......
Nonetheless Agreed no BOD should have ALLMIGHTY POWER.
But in this case I think the majority has spoken at SAM. John does not have to be happy about it, and he has had his day in COURT..what more does he want?
Frankly i would like to know what damages was awarded him?!

Smite the sheperd, scatter the sheep. or at least keep them in line.

(in reply to SSRCCPREZ)

Post #: 286

RE: Civil Discourse - 4/3/2007 8:51:15 PM

John Casey

Posts: 685
Joined: 1/10/2002
From: Elk Grove, CA, USA
Status: offline

I love the "JOHN CASEYS the bad guy, just because the board tossed him out' take on things,.....
The world once thought the earth was flat too.....CASEY could'nt possibly be right...

I'm sure the "troublemakers" in north korean prisions are viewed the same
way by the "people's party" that put them there.

I'm going to take the third person route again..............

Casey wanted to:

extend the runway from 400 to 700 ft,with approval from the membership. (THATS A BAD THING?)

keep iniation fees were they were for 15 years, which was the formula that
resulted in a 80,000 plus treasury(ANOTHER BAD THING?)

Make the "racers take down the pylons per the clubs rules(Enforcing the clubs rules is A BAD THING ?)

keep the racers from eating up the weekends with racing.(only a BAD thing if your a Racer,
GOOD THING IF YOUR EVERY OTHER PILOT

The board and its minions:

prevent the runway from being extended (per the vote of the membership) ( THATS A GOOD THING ?)

raise iniation fees, dispite the members voting NO 3X (shows disrepect for the membership)

knowingly condoned the shooting down of aircraft (nothing needs to be said here)

Subject the membership to constant racing and race practice ( MOST members do not race)

Threaten to shootdown a kids plane baecuse it has a Airborne hobbies sticker on it,(yea thats ok)

Toss out any member that voices an opinion against the boards wishs or edicts.(3 people in 4 months)

ZIG HIEL

Got the clubs runway shutdown for defying the AMA. (another smart move)

Take themselves to dinner on the clubs dime (ANOTHER GOOD THING ?)
(see the newsletters) 306 dollars of the clubs monies to feed themselves??

Yea.....................................lets put that in
"THATS OK TO DO LIST"

OH YEA John Caseys the BAD GUY here.

Welcome to the world of Nazi thugs..........( Remember you do not have to have a country to behave like a nazi)
(The term Nazi, describes a use of common actions, tactics and behavoirs well know in history as BAD, Evil, or wrong)
the tactics used by these "people" are similar.)

The board members NOT of the racing "CLICK"
are resigning from the board about as fast as they get elected to it.

Hiding documents from the membership so they can't find out the truth...stinks of coruption.

The AMA did not shut these guys down because they "CO-OPERATED"...
(that also should tell you guys something stinks here)

you Guys
can't come up with ANYTHING John Casey did that was going to hurt the members or the Hobby.
If Anything he was going to improve things for the members and the hobby.

If casey wins........members get a 700 ft runway...(wow... I bet they would really hate that.)
If jimmy skids boys prevail................what????
180plus members stuck with 400 ft for forever? ..........That would suck..

What is it the "other side" wanted?

A smaller runway?.....higher fees?......... Mushrooms for members? .........free breakfast /lunch and dinner?

When your only recourse is "name calling" (loser , whiner etc... John Casey has already won,
and you have already lost in the eyes of anyone reading thread.

Compare the aircraft from both northern CA clubs .

which one needs improving?........................................... CASEY wins

out of third person mode:

YOUR TURN..............

< Message edited by John Casey -- 4/3/2007 10:00:41 PM >

(in reply to rcmiket)

Post #: 287

RE: Civil Discourse - 4/3/2007 10:06:18 PM

Jimmy Skids

Posts: 145
Joined: 6/10/2003
From: Sacramento, CA, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: JUGFLIER

Sorry Butchie, i don't agree. By the way i haven't argued in any other thread but this. Butchie you say i can't see the daylight in this thread, what i see is what is missing. Did he shoot down planes? No Did he threaten other club members? No Did he violate the by-laws of the club? No . His crime was to try to rally the members of the club to reign in a bosard out of control. For this he was ejected. When other members, two were founding members, tried to get the board to see the error of its ways, they were showed the door. I have a real problem with this. DO YOU MEAN TO TELL ME THATY IF YOU DISAGREE IN ANYWAY WITH THE LEADERSHIP OF YOUR CLUB THIS IS AUTOMATIC GROUNDS FOR EXPULSION? YOU ARE ON DANGEROUS GROUND MY FRIEND.

Jugflier,

Three individuals were terminated. John Casey, not a founding father, Jeff Weiss, not a founding father, and Jerry Dodge, a founding father that returned to the club after many years of absence to basically disrupt meetings and take on his buddy John Casey's battle. That's three in over 25 years of being a club with membership in the 150 to 200 range. No bad over all.

I would definitely say contacting the clubs land lord without club permission would be overstepping a members rights and would justify action up to and including termination. John was not able to rally the membership because the membership was happy with the way the board was running the club. I was not a board member, just a individual in the membership so I feel that I can state with clarity my position on the whole abomination. With that said, please don't take issue with me on the subject since I was on the actual front line of the whole situation not looking at it via a computer screen.

Jimmy Skids

(in reply to JUGFLIER)

Post #: 288

RE: Civil Discourse - 4/3/2007 10:33:28 PM

Jimmy Skids

Posts: 145
Joined: 6/10/2003
From: Sacramento, CA, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: John Casey

I love the "JOHN CASEYS the bad guy, just because the board tossed him out' take on things,.....
The world once thought the earth was flat too.....CASEY could'nt possibly be right...
I'll give you that..... at least the part about not being right.
I'm sure the "troublemakers" in north korean prisions are viewed the same
way by the "people's party" that put them there.
CRAPOLA
I'm going to take the third person route again..............
would that be tripolar?

Casey wanted to:

extend the runway from 400 to 700 ft,with approval from the membership. (THATS A BAD THING?)
too bad it wasn't feasible

keep iniation fees were they were for 15 years, which was the formula that
resulted in a 80,000 plus treasury(ANOTHER BAD THING?)
just kept up with the other club in the area, for god's sake man, even the price of milk goes up over time.
Make the "racers take down the pylons per the clubs rules(Enforcing the clubs rules is A BAD THING ?)
not a club rule, was an event rule, but nothing in the club rules with regards to this, nice try

keep the racers from eating up the weekends with racing.(only a BAD thing if your a Racer,
GOOD THING IF YOUR EVERY OTHER PILOT
racer, pattern flyers, sport flyers, and even scale flyers can be found sharing the field every week end

The board and its minions:
very nice, more name calling

prevent the runway from being extended (per the vote of the membership) ( THATS A GOOD THING ?)
wrong
raise iniation fees, dispite the members voting NO 3X (shows disrepect for the membership)
2 votes, and your wrong again
knowingly condoned the shooting down of aircraft (nothing needs to be said here)
just plain bull s#@!
Subject the membership to constant racing and race practice ( MOST members do not race)
only complaint I've heard is from you.... a non-member

Threaten to shootdown a kids plane baecuse it has a Airborne hobbies sticker on it,(yea thats ok)
I know nothing of this, and don't even think of implying that I did.
Toss out any member that voices an opinion against the boards wishs or edicts.(3 people in 4 months)
Your opinon, not mine
ZIG HIEL

Got the clubs runway shutdown for defying the AMA. (another smart move)
AMA closed the site due to non-member compliants....Hummm did you have something to do with that as well?

Take themselves to dinner on the clubs dime (ANOTHER GOOD THING ?)
(see the newsletters) 306 dollars of the clubs monies to feed themselves??
When I was on the board I did go to a meeting where the old officers and new officers were present for a dinner. Don't know the cost, but there was close to 15 people there. $20 a head for dinner isn't a bad price in this day and age.

Yea.....................................lets put that in
"THATS OK TO DO LIST"

OH YEA John Caseys the BAD GUY here.
you wrote it not me

Welcome to the world of Nazi thugs..........( Remember you do not have to have a country to behave like a nazi)
please stop with the Nazi references, this is so far removed from anything as serious as that period in history that you only offend people by making the comparison.
(The term Nazi, describes a use of common actions, tactics and behavoirs well know in history as BAD, Evil, or wrong)
the tactics used by these "people" are similar.)

The board members NOT of the racing "CLICK"
are resigning from the board about as fast as they get elected to it.
Not true

Hiding documents from the membership so they can't find out the truth...stinks of coruption.
Documents? I would like to have access to all of your current clubs documents.... just try to get a model airplane club to be organized

The AMA did not shut these guys down because they "CO-OPERATED"...
(that also should tell you guys something stinks here)
AMA also reopened the club field once they had full information as to what was happening. Only thing that stinks is you.

you Guys
can't come up with ANYTHING John Casey did that was going to hurt the members or the Hobby.
If Anything he was going to improve things for the members and the hobby.
Oh I don't know, continual slams of a club on the internet can't be good for the hobby as a whole

If casey wins........members get a 700 ft runway...(wow... I bet they would really hate that.)
If jimmy skids boys prevail................what????
180plus members stuck with 400 ft for forever? ..........That would suck..
I still go out nearly every week and get to enjoy the field with my 3 year old son, small runway and all.

What is it the "other side" wanted?

A smaller runway?.....higher fees?......... Mushrooms for members? .........free breakfast /lunch and dinner?

When your only recourse is "name calling" (loser , whiner etc... John Casey has already won,
and you have already lost in the eyes of anyone reading thread.

Compare the aircraft from both northern CA clubs .

which one needs improving?........................................... CASEY wins

out of third person mode:

YOUR TURN..............

John,
You are so full of it. I wonder what the medical expenses would be like once you decide to seek medical attention. I can't even begin to understand why I keep responding to your crap. When you find a good Doctor give me his name as well.
Jimmy Skids

(in reply to John Casey)