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RE: RC Surfer - 6/26/2009 11:03 AM

LONGBOARDT3

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After trying various materials, I have the solution for my water leaks on the board of a hardware tapa.en I bought a foam that is used in door for the closure is tight....$ 1 for one meters. the adhesive mesh is strong, as you see in the picture.and works well if you come to after a long day of surfing.

S.O.S.......I have read that some or most of the antenna does not wear out ... you have the helmet on ... as you do?

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RE: RC Surfer - 6/26/2009 7:35 PM

TechyJoe

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Sukeroku
I think both the white deck and yellow deck boards are from the same maker and they are both Chinese...... And they both leak according to the thread here for I have a white one and LongBoardt3 has a yellow one.

However, $70.00 seems to high. You need to look around. I posted a link a page or so back to Longboardt3 about this. I only paid $40.00 + tax and shipping for my Lisa.

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RE: RC Surfer - 6/26/2009 7:57 PM

TechyJoe

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Yowsa

You can try your 6 cell 7.2 volt with your setup to see if it works - It won't hurt anything. If it can't turn the motor, do not keep trying it - just stop.

A small lesson on batteries etc:

Nicad battery packs consist of 1 or more cells. each cell is 1.2 volts. So 6 cells X 1.2 = 7.2v. This is what the cheap stock 540 motors are rated for.

Lipo packs can also be made up of several cells. They are typically 2,3 or 4 cells. Each cell here is 3.7volts. Your brushless motor can handle the 11.1volt Lipo and probably will need 11.1v to push enough current to start it turning.

Your brushless motor can deliver more torque and power (circular power) but also requires more current to start it turning.

So, in short, if you go to Lipo packs use 11.1v. However, Lipo packs require a special charger made for Lipo batteries. You can't charge a Lipo pack using a nicad Charger.

As for the current ratings, such as 5000mah, this is a rating of how much current a battery can supply for one hour. So, your 5000mah means that that pack can supply 5amps or 5000 milli-amps for one hour. This is a fairly large capacity battery and the larger the capacity, usually the more expensive the packs become.

So, I took some measurements of current draw from my setup and found that it draws about 10-12amps of current. So for simple math purposes lets say the motor draws 10amps (full throttle).

10amps / 5.0amps/h = 2

Convert hours to minutes:
So there are 60 minutes in 1 hour and 60 / 2 = 30 minutes. Your battery should provide 10 amps for 30 minutes.

For the 3000mah pack: 10/3.3 = .33 or 3 so 60 / 3 = 20 minutes.

BTW: your ESC should work great. Like I said, the motor does not draw a lot of current so a huge ESC is not needed. What is more important is that these devices get no air so they tend to get hot so it is more important that they keep cool. The larger ESC tend to have larger heat sinks to they can handle more heat. With water cooling, you should have no problems.

< Message edited by TechyJoe -- 6/26/2009 10:25 PM >

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RE: RC Surfer - 6/26/2009 8:08 PM

LONGBOARDT3

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S.O.S.......I have read that some or most of the antenna does not wear out ... you have the helmet on ... as you do?
thankyou

sukeruku I'll send you the website where I bought my surfer

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RE: RC Surfer - 6/26/2009 8:22 PM

TechyJoe

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I took Lisa out for a spin on the ocean today and she ran GREAT! Leaks fixed. My wife couldn't believe it. She saw the original Lisa which could not get out of her own way and didn't expect to see much today. But Lisa was jumping over waves and getting air of two feet. Didn't run her long because I wanted to check for leaks (5 minutes or so).

Here are some new pictures with the water cooled ESC and larger water intake port.

Left to right:
1) Completed Lisa with new ESC, 2) Close up of ESC, 3) caulk sealed prop shaft, expanded intake port, 4) fiberglassed in weight

Attachments

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< Message edited by TechyJoe -- 6/26/2009 9:07 PM >

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RE: RC Surfer - 6/26/2009 9:12 PM

TechyJoe

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FYI
Don't forget to remove the rear cap which seals in the rudder control harness & wire and wash this out with fresh water after use. Water gets in to this area and the salt will corrode the screw etc.

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RE: RC Surfer - 6/27/2009 2:33 AM

TechyJoe

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Yowza

Let us know if the Kyosho leaks.

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RE: RC Surfer - 6/27/2009 5:06 AM

sukeroku

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Yowza, TechyJoe and Longboard, thanks for the the suggestions. I found a white decked NQD Lisa on
a Japanese site for 4280 yen which is a better price than before (the exchange rate is a little high
now but it roughly translates to $40). I hit all the major RC shops in Akihabara yesterday putting my
my Japanese skills to use in the shops and on the web but noone could find me a Kyosho so I am
going to go with this one. The challenge is going to be the modifications since I am a surfer not an RC guy.
Give me fiberglass and some resin and I can fix any ding but this electronics stuff is a little daunting...
but I'm game! I'm may take the thing to Akihabara when I get it and see if the guys at Futaba Sangyo
can help me out. They seemed to be the friendlist shop I visited.

Any suggestions as far as gutting the board and getting reasonable set up would be appreciated...
How much $$$ are talking about laying out here? I'm not taliking about a "superboard" just a decent
functional setup that will give me ample power and surf time.

< Message edited by sukeroku -- 6/27/2009 5:15 AM >

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RE: RC Surfer - 6/27/2009 6:28 PM

TechyJoe

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sukeroku

Are you really from Japan? Where exactly? This is so cool ! We have Spain, Japan and the US. Your English writing is superb. How did it get so good?

Anyway, if you read many of the posts here you can get a good idea of some good setups. Mine cost me about $150.00 US dollars but I used a Radio I already owned and a battery pack I already owned from model airplanes.

Here would be my total cost if I purchased everything together:

1) Lisa Surfer: $40.00
2) EZ-Run 540 Brushless motor $60.00
3) Etti Water cooled ESC with BEC (you want BEC) $60.00
4) 2 channel 75mhz Am radio $50.00
5) 2200mah Lipo Battery $40.00

$250.00
This does not include the Lipo Battery Charger

Go back and start to read from page 10 of this thread. I tried to outline all of the steps I performed from the start so others would not need to encounter the same issues as me. Do not use the Vaseline idea - it was not so good. Use the seal material that SurfCurls presented.

Also, try Ebay for a Kyosho Surfer.

< Message edited by TechyJoe -- 6/27/2009 6:34 PM >

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RE: RC Surfer - 6/27/2009 9:47 PM

LONGBOARDT3

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TechyJoe
have to write as you made the entry of cold water to the engine and place the antenna inside the helmet.
I have a speed control without refrigeration and the truth is very hot.I think I can make a system equal to the motor.
greetings

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RE: RC Surfer - 6/28/2009 3:43 AM

Yowza

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TechyJoe -

Thanks heaps for the battery info. I think i'll just use the ordinary NiCd 1800 mah battery that i've got from the Bondi Surfer Girl for the moment until the new motor, ESC etc arrive (The Kyosho came with a 1400 mah NiCd which is prob about 7 or 8 years old). Then buy the Lipo's when I install the new gear.

I tried it yesterday for the first time in the water. It went ok, bit better then I thought it would. I checked for leaks when I got home and there was a few drops of water inside. I think this is due to the crappy deck screw grommets that it comes with. As soon as the screw starts to tighten the grommet pops out the side of the screw head. So I was only screwing them in a little.

Anyone got any ideas for better sealing of the deck screws??? (I've already ordered some of the surfcurls screws as the washers look better on the webpage, hopefully this will fix it)

You setup looks really good TechyJoe - Nice and clean. Glad it's all going well now with the ESC. That's what these surfers really need, instead of the simple on/off function of the servo switch.

I'm going to take it out today again, so i'll take some pictures and post them later tonight.

sukeroku - If you go to www.ebay.com.au and type in RC Surfer you will be able to bid on them, they have been going for approx 20-30 Australian $. They start of with no reserve, so you might get it for a couple of dollars. Worth a look anyway if you haven't already brought one.

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RE: RC Surfer - 6/28/2009 4:55 AM

sukeroku

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TechyJoe

sukeroku

Are you really from Japan? Where exactly? This is so cool ! We have Spain, Japan and the US. Your English writing is superb. How did it get so good?

Anyway, if you read many of the posts here you can get a good idea of some good setups. Mine cost me about $150.00 US dollars but I used a Radio I already owned and a battery pack I already owned from model airplanes.

Here would be my total cost if I purchased everything together:

1) Lisa Surfer: $40.00
2) EZ-Run 540 Brushless motor $60.00
3) Etti Water cooled ESC with BEC (you want BEC) $60.00
4) 2 channel 75mhz Am radio $50.00
5) 2200mah Lipo Battery $40.00

$250.00
This does not include the Lipo Battery Charger

Go back and start to read from page 10 of this thread. I tried to outline all of the steps I performed from the start so others would not need to encounter the same issues as me. Do not use the Vaseline idea - it was not so good. Use the seal material that SurfCurls presented.

Also, try Ebay for a Kyosho Surfer.

I live in Japan, Yokohama to be exact but I'm an American expat (born and raised in NJ). Hopefully, my English is pretty good. My Japanese is also pretty good and I can navigate Japanese websites with little difficulty. E-bay is not big here, instead we have Yahoo Auction. I've looked around quite a bit and haven't had any luck finding a real Kyosho Surfer here...yet.
I'm plannng on assembling my Surfer here and then bringing it back to the States to play with while on vacation in late July. My brother in law has a decent RC car setup so I will probably have a decent transmitter and charger available (not sure if its a Lipo or a NiCad). While my Japanese is quite good I am a little concernied with the RC terminology in Japanese. Just to clarify your setup suggestions:

1) NQD Surf Lisa...I have reread all the pages on this forum and I am really tempted to go with the Board Shark but I think if I can seal the Surf Lisa deck, fill the figure with plumber`s foam, and attach the lead to the keel then I will be in good shape. The articulated figure on the Board Shark appears to be a pain as well as the issue with the gear box).

2) 540 Brushless...do I go sensor or sensorless? Also, I understand that it shoould be water cooled. (BTW what is a water jacket?) Finally there is this 19T business (my understanding is that this has to go with power vs speed). I need to be pretty specific here since i will be going to discount hobby shops and communicating in Japanese (any Japanese brand recommendations).

3) Watercooled ESC with BEC...Reading this thread it appears that 40A appears to be sufficient. (Still trying to understand what BEC is/does but I know I need).

4) Transmitter...Is the unit that comes with the NQD Sur Lisa inadequate? Again, perhaps, my brother in law can hook me up...

5) Battery...I may go with NiCad to save some cash (my brother in law probably has a NiCad charger) what NiCad setuo would you recommend?

6) Servo...will I need a new one? if so any specs you advise...

Long post, lots of questions...one of the big RC stores here is having a big sale so I might make out with good stuff at a good price but I need to be specific about what I'm ordering.

(You've been a great help!)

< Message edited by Justaddwata -- 7/9/2009 4:59 PM >

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RE: RC Surfer - 6/28/2009 7:18 PM

TechyJoe

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Hi Guys

I will try and answer Yowza's questions first and then if I have time today, I'll move on to sukeroku 's questions. If I can't answer them all today, I'll post more tomorrow.

Yowza
I thought my leaks were also coming in from the screws. However it wasn't the screws at all but still the deck seals.

Here I will outline how I went about testing for leaks in the motor area compartment (air pressure testing):

1) Remove the deck screws, deck with the Lisa figure.
2) Disconnect the intake cooling hose from either the motor cooling coil or from the intake port and lay loose inside the motor area.
3) Place the deck and Lisa figure back in place and tighten the screws completely.
4) Connect a long external hose to the intake port on the bottom of the hull
5) Submerse the surf board in calm water such as in a tub or pool.
6) Blow into the external hose.

The preasure inside the motor area will cause the air to leak out and bubble in the leaky areas. You will probably see bubbles from the deck area, the propeller and the rudder.

Here is a picture of the hose I disconnected and the hose I attached to the bottom intake port.

Attachments

Click for fullsize

< Message edited by TechyJoe -- 6/28/2009 7:24 PM >

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RE: RC Surfer - 6/28/2009 8:00 PM

TechyJoe

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More on leaks

Those darn pesky leaks.

I have also tried covering the screw heads with this gummy material called funtack (can be found in hardware stores where tape and glue are found). This stuff is typically used by kids for hanging posters. This stuff worked pretty well in frash water but I think the salt water shrinks it and makes it fall off. I'm not sure because my screws heads were not leaking so I stopped using this.

I have also tried sealing the prop shaft with ordinary bath caulk where the shaft meets the hull but the salt water seems to shrink this as well and makes it come loose.

I am going to try plumbers putty next on the sahft to see how this works. If you do not seal the prop shaft, you will get water inside the hull. I don't think the board will sink but it makes it heavier and then the board becomes much slower in the water and your battery will drain faster.

So, one thing I did find which works pretty well:. Electrical tape ! I outline the entire deck seal area with this after I screw the deck down as a preventitive measure. Maybe placing some small peices of this over the screw heads will work.

Of course this is a one time use application. once you remove it to replace the battery, you need to put fresh tap in place.

Here are some more pictures of the funtack over a screw head and electrical tape.

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RE: RC Surfer - 6/29/2009 5:23 PM

TechyJoe

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sukeroku
I'll try to answer your questions:

1) I didn't find the need to fill the Lisa Figure with plumbers foam. However, I did need to glue her head on better. It also appears to me that board shark builders made the "dude" figure static (not sure how this is done. maybe just glue him in place).

2) I an not a motor expert. Motor theory can be quite complicated. What I do know is that 19T or xxT stands for the number of wire winding turns around the motor armature. I believe the higher the number of turns usually the more torque and less RPM. A 19T motor is typically a "Brushed" motor and is what a lot of RC cars builders use. I guess because it is a middle of the road motor selection (good trade off between power and speed). Most people speak of motors in terms of Turns and KV. KV can be used to determine RPM. RPM = KV * volts. So my RPM = 3300KV * 11.1.

As for sensor versus sensor less, I don't know much about this but it has to do with the motor and the ESC knowing the exact position of the armature at all times. Depending on where the armature of the motor is position at rest, depends on how much current is needed to start the motor turning. I believe these setups require that the ESC be a sensored ESC. I believe a sensor less motor will work with virtually any ESC.
My motor is sensor less and it cost less. What I have notice with mine is that sometimes It takes a second or two to get the motor turning I guess depending on where the armature has stopped. You may need to go sensor less if you want to use the Nicad packs (you will really need to research this more - try Google searching "sensor versus sensor less motors" etc.).

The water jacket is a jacket that slips over your motor which water runs through to keep it cool. Your Surfer comes with a water coil so you will not need a jacket.

3) 40+ amp ESC should work. BEC stands for Battery Elimination Circuit. What this does is it removes the need to have an extra 4 volt battery pack to power your radio receiver. instead it uses the main motor battery for both powering the receiver as well as your motor. This will save you space and headache not having to worry about two battery systems.

4) The Radio that comes with the surfer is junk. It is not proportional meaning when you steer you get full right or full left only and when you throttle, you get full throttle or stop. You will need to replace this with RC quality proportional radio equipment. These can be purchased for about $50.00 and they come with pistol grip Transmitter, receiver and usually two full size servos.

5) ? -
Your Surfer comes with a cheap charger. This is a trickle charger. Should work but it will take several hours to charge. Quick chargers cost more but charge packs in about 1 hour. I used Nicads for a long time flying airplanes but bit the bullet two years ago to invest in Lipos.

6) A new 2 channel radio will typically come with 1-2 full size servos. I like Futaba radios. It is reasonably priced and the quality is outstanding.

I hope that if any of this is information is incorrect, others will chime in to correct me.

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RE: RC Surfer - 6/29/2009 6:03 PM

sukeroku

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TechyJoe

sukeroku
I'll try to answer your questions:

1) I didn't find the need to fill the Lisa Figure with plumbers foam. However, I did need to glue her head on better. It also appears to me that board shark builders made the "dude" figure static (not sure how this is done. maybe just glue him in place).

2) I an not a motor expert. Motor theory can be quite complicated. What I do know is that 19T or xxT stands for the number of wire winding turns around the motor armature. I believe the higher the number of turns usually the more torque and less RPM. A 19T motor is typically a "Brushed" motor and is what a lot of RC cars builders use. I guess because it is a middle of the road motor selection (good trade off between power and speed). Most people speak of motors in terms of Turns and KV. KV can be used to determine RPM. RPM = KV * volts. So my RPM = 3300KV * 11.1.

As for sensor versus sensor less, I don't know much about this but it has to do with the motor and the ESC knowing the exact position of the armature at all times. Depending on where the armature of the motor is position at rest, depends on how much current is needed to start the motor turning. I believe these setups require that the ESC be a sensored ESC. I believe a sensor less motor will work with virtually any ESC.
My motor is sensor less and it cost less. What I have notice with mine is that sometimes It takes a second or two to get the motor turning I guess depending on where the armature has stopped. You may need to go sensor less if you want to use the Nicad packs (you will really need to research this more - try Google searching "sensor versus sensor less motors" etc.).

The water jacket is a jacket that slips over your motor which water runs through to keep it cool. Your Surfer comes with a water coil so you will not need a jacket.

3) 40+ amp ESC should work. BEC stands for Battery Elimination Circuit. What this does is it removes the need to have an extra 4 volt battery pack to power your radio receiver. instead it uses the main motor battery for both powering the receiver as well as your motor. This will save you space and headache not having to worry about two battery systems.

4) The Radio that comes with the surfer is junk. It is not proportional meaning when you steer you get full right or full left only and when you throttle, you get full throttle or stop. You will need to replace this with RC quality proportional radio equipment. These can be purchased for about $50.00 and they come with pistol grip Transmitter, receiver and usually two full size servos.

5) ? -
Your Surfer comes with a cheap charger. This is a trickle charger. Should work but it will take several hours to charge. Quick chargers cost more but charge packs in about 1 hour. I used Nicads for a long time flying airplanes but bit the bullet two years ago to invest in Lipos.

6) A new 2 channel radio will typically come with 1-2 full size servos. I like Futaba radios. It is reasonably priced and the quality is outstanding.

I hope that if any of this is information is incorrect, others will chime in to correct me.

TechyJoe,

Thanks for the detailed reply. Between the pictures on the thread and these detailed explainations i feel like I'm getting a handle on this stuff. If the problem with the figure is only leakage then I can seal her up. I think weighted the keel should take care of the righting issues. I'll go with the safe route with a sensored motor (without the waterjacket) and I'll get the 40amp esc with bec. I'll check again with my brother-in-law regarding the radio but the Futaba shop is local so maybe I can get a deal. As far as batteries and charger I'll explore the LiPo if I can afford it.

Here's a link to the Lisa i am planning to purchase. http://item.rakuten.co.jp/mylife/rs08sf-01white/ I was going to bid on the ebay.au but the seller doesn't internationally. (I stilll might pick up a Board Shark to fool around with since they can be had pretty cheap).

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RE: RC Surfer - 6/29/2009 6:25 PM

TechyJoe

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sukeroku
Just make sure the ESC you buy works with a sensored brushless motor.

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RE: RC Surfer - 6/30/2009 1:29 PM

Yowza

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TechyJoe -

Thanks mate for the pressure testing info, it's a great idea. I got the surfcurls screws with the neoprene washers today so that should help make sure no water gets in through the screws.

How's your new ESC been going, no issues?

I'm taking mine around to Brendon (The guy that originally created them with Jason Hall) on Friday. I only live 5 min from him & he said he's happy to take a look at the small leak & at the short run time i'm getting out of it.

As the Kyosho RC Dudes need to be put together from scratch and glued/epoxied together (I mean everything!!) it will be good for him to check it out and see if it's done right.

I've also just got my new motor, ESC, water jacket, surfcurls screws, heat shrink & Deans Ultra plugs. Still waiting for the flex drive cable, prop, drive dog & Lipo battery. So hopefully in a week or so i'll have it all together ready to go.

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RE: RC Surfer - 6/30/2009 9:05 PM

TechyJoe

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Yowza

Cool - looks like you'll be in business shortly.

The new Water cooled ESC seems to be working Great. My system no longer shuts down due to heat.

I drove Lisa several times last week and it was great (slowly making my way out to the bigger waves.). My Caulk seal came loose between the prop shaft and hull so I am working on a new fix for that as well.

I also took a garden hose and shot water into the intake port to try and get an idea of water flow through the system. I would like to see more water flowing so I am going to experiment with the arrangement of the feed hoses and try to reduce the number of arching curves.

One last thing. You can also check for hull leaks by using a technique similar to the one used to find motor capartment leaks.

1) Remove the deck
2) Completely screw in 3 out of the 4 screws into the screw holes - this is with the deck removed.
3) Place a long water hose into the 4th screw hole - the one without the screw in it.
4) Place the hull into the water up to the hull seems
5) Blow air into the hose.

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RE: RC Surfer - 6/30/2009 10:29 PM

LONGBOARDT3

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hello again friends ...
my engine original is broken and want to change the other with brushes.
I need to remove the old piece hex,but it is impossible!!
someone managed to remove it without breaking anything?
I do not know if stores like rc something more to this piece....
another 540 as the engine that is economical and better?.......thankyou

< Message edited by LONGBOARDT3 -- 6/30/2009 10:42 PM >

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RE: RC Surfer - 6/30/2009 10:49 PM

TechyJoe

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The hex adapter is nearly impossible to remove. You will need to buy an adapter to replace it were one end fits over the motor shaft and the other end attaches to the motor shaft.

Here is what I purchased:

http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/products.php?cat=68
1/8 to .130 adapter

Somewhere on another page is an adpater others have used.

If you really want to try and remove the original adapter and you have a small tourch, you could try to heat up the hex brass fitting and pull it off. In theory, the brass should heat faster then the metal motor shaft, expand and come off.

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RE: RC Surfer - 6/30/2009 11:01 PM

LONGBOARDT3

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I did as I said but no luck. while I buy something similar that I said. suggestions?
and I said the economic engine that is going well?
one particularly better than the 540?
thnakyou friend

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RE: RC Surfer - 7/1/2009 8:37 AM

surfcurls

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If you are using the surfcurls deck. / screws / washers for a surfer lisa or nqd or shark, coat the screws with with a light amount of marine grease, it helps coat the inside deck nut from any salt water corrosion Alsiao, tell Brendon H, Hi from John In California

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RE: RC Surfer - 7/2/2009 5:11 AM

Yowza

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TechyJoe -

To seal the section where prop shaft goes through the hull of the board I used epoxy resin. It worked great and looks nice and neat. I let the epoxy cure a little when I had mixed it (Not too much) before I put it around the shaft to stop it running/dripping. No water gets in at all. (I'll take some pics of the whole setup once Brendon has finished checking it out)

Hopefully next week the LiPo battery will arrive and I can start installing the brushless gear once Brendon has checked it over.

I also just brought one of the Venom Pro Chargers for AUS $139....Tried it last night and it worked awesome. Really quick charge times and a lot of manual settings can be used for almost all types of batteries in RC.

Longboardt3 -

As TechyJoe suggested, get onto www.offshoreelectrics.com and search for couplers. This is where I got my motor, water jacket etc from. I live in Australia and it was all here within a week and packaged well. They also have brushed/brushless 540 motors if you still need to buy one.

Surfcurls -

Thanks for the info on the screws, i've got the original Kyosho dude, but will still add a light amount of grease. I'll say hi to Brendon for you, i'm looking forward to getting mine up and running properly.

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RE: RC Surfer - 7/5/2009 10:40 AM

Yowza

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Ok , I got the little fella back from Brendon today and he's done an amazing job. He relocated the aerial & on/off switch so that the whole hatch lid easily comes off without any wires attached. He fixed the prop shaft leak by moving the motor forward so the drive dog blocks any gaps to the entry of the shaft. I also changes the hatch tape over to the original stuff that came with it. I did not get a drop of water inside which i'm stoked about.

He also used a special type of tack/wax to seal in the cover of the prop compartment and also used 2 screws to hold it in as he said even using strong glue these will pop out when in 4-6 ft surf.

Now on the down side I only has the 1800 man NiCd battery to use, so runtime was about 5 min, but while it last I was more than happy.

I'm just waiting on my new LiPo 11.1v battery to arrive and the bullet connectors for the new motor & ESC. Once I have those i'll start changing the motor over. So hopefully next time I use it i'll be getting a lot better speed out of it. Although the stock speed when the battery is full is great using the factory Kyosho motor.

Here's some pics I just quickly took of it.....also notice the screwq grommets Brendon put on so the screws stay put when you take the hatch off (no more lost screws!!) & new custom water inlet/outlet

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