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All Forums >> Radios, Batteries, Clubhouse and more >> Batteries & Chargers >> Common Sense RC Support >> New Batteries
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New Batteries - 3/3/2007 5:56:27 PM   
Gillyman


 

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I have a Hobbico Digital AC/DC Charger Model 920. What is the best way(time/amps etc) to charge my new battries(tenergy 6 cells 3500mah ni-mh) I just got these for my Traxxas, I must of burned up my old battries(2yrs old).

Gilly
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RE: New Batteries - 3/4/2007 4:34:42 AM   
Tram



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From: Florence, AL, USA
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How about this:

The cheapest way to charge a nickel metal hydride battery is to charge at C/10 or below (10% of the rated capacity per hour). So a 100 mAH battery would be charged at 10 mA for 15 hours. This method does not require an end-of-charge sensor and ensures a full charge. Modern cells have an oxygen recycling catalyst which prevents damage to the battery on overcharge, but this recycling cannot keep up if the charge rate is over C/10. The minimum voltage you need to get a full charge varies with temperature--at least 1.41 volts per cell at 20 degrees C. Even though continued charging at C/10 does not cause venting, it does warm the battery slightly. To preserve battery life the best practice is to use a timer to prevent overcharging to continue past 13 to 15 hours. Examples of this kind of charger are shown at http://www.powerstream.com/NiMHWM.htm. This charger uses a microprocessor to report the state of charge via an LED as well as performing the timing function.

Faster Charging

Using a timer it is possible to charge at C/3.33 for 5 hours. This is a little risky, since the battery should be fully discharged before charging. If the battery still has 90% of its capacity when the timer starts you would have a good chance of venting the battery. One way to ensure this doesn't happen is to have the charger automatically discharge the battery to 1 volt per cell, then turn the charger on for 5 hours. The advantage of this method is to eliminate any chance of battery memory. PowerStream does not currently have such a charger, but the microprocessor board used in the C/10 charger http://www.powerstream.com/NiMHWM.htm could easily be modified to do the discharge. A power dissipating package would be needed in order to dissipate the energy from a partially charged battery in a reasonable amount of time. Another example of a 3 hour charger is http://wwww.powerstream.com/9vnmh.htm . This is a very inexpensive microprocessor based 9 volt "transistor radio" battery charger that that drops to low current when the battery voltage indicates a full charge.

Fastest Charging

If a temperature monitor is used NiMH batteries can be charged at rates up to 1C (in other words 100% of the battery capacity in amp-hours for 1.5 hours). The PowerStream battery charge controller shown in http://www.powerstream.com/product3.htm does this, as does the battery management board shown in http://www.powerstream.com/product5.htm.
This board also has the ability to sense voltage and current for more sophisticated algorithms.

When terminating on temperature rise the dT/dt value should be set at 1 to 2 degrees C per minute.

Trickle Charging

In a standby mode you might want to keep a nickel metal hydride battery topped up without damaging the battery. This can be done safely at a current of between 0.03 C and .05 C. The voltage required for this is dependent on temperature, so be sure to regulate the current in the charger.

dT/dt versus -dV/dt

These two termination methods work well for NiCads, and are both applied to NiMH as well. dT/dt measures the temperature rise at the end of charge. After the battery is fully charged it starts new chemical reactions in order to absorb the unneeded current. In nickel hydroxide style batteries this consists in generating and recombining oxygen. This process heats the battery. The sudden increase in temperature rise can be used to terminate the charge.

Another effect of the oxygen generation/recombination cycle is to depress the voltage of the battery slightly. If you can detect this voltage depression you can use this signal to terminate the charge. Of course, -dV/dt is the easiest because it doesn't require a temperature sensor. The best method for NiMH is the dT/dt method. There are two main reasons. With the NiMH battery the voltage depression is smaller, and harder to detect than with the NiCad battery. This almost always ensures an overcharge, which will limit the total number of charge/discharge cycles before battery failure. Second, a new NiMH battery has false peaks early in the charge cycle, and so the charger will terminate too soon.

At PowerStream we have experimented with a number of -dV/dt algorithms, and have not found one that works well for new and old, hot and cold, fully discharged and partly discharged conditions. For this reason we recommend dT/dt. We don't recommend trying to charge a NiMH battery with a NiCad charger unless it uses dT/dt.

The Ultimate Charger

Sometimes the most important issue is the lifetime of the batteries or the total lifetime cost of the system. In this case PowerStream is in a good position to offer the ultimate charger because of our wide experience in microprocessor controlled battery chargers and power supplies. Specs for the ultimate charger are:

1. Soft start. If the temperature is above 40 degrees C or below zero degrees C start with a C/10 charge. If the discharged battery voltage is less than 1.0 Volts/cell start with a C/10 charge. If the discharged battery voltage is above 1.29 V/cell start with a C/10 charge.

2. Option: if the discharged battery voltage is above 1.0 Volts/cell, discharge the battery to 1.0 V/cell then proceed to rapid charge.

3. Rapid charge at 1 C until the temperature reaches 45 degrees C, or the dT/dt indicates full charge.

4. After terminating the fast charge, slow charge at C/10 for 4 hours to ensure a full charge.

5. If the voltage climbs to 1.78 V/cell without otherwise terminating, terminate.

6. If the time on fast charge exceeds 1.5 hours without otherwise terminating, terminate the fast charge.

7. If the battery never reaches a condition where the fast charge starts time out the slow charge after 15 hours.

8. Fuel gauge, communication to the device being powered, LED indicators all possible.


Jeff
www.CommonSenseRC.com

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Jeff Williams
www.CommonSenseRC.com

(in reply to Gillyman)
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RE: New Batteries - 3/4/2007 2:13:47 PM   
Gillyman


 

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Now I'm Lost

< Message edited by Gillyman -- 3/4/2007 2:14:06 PM >

(in reply to Tram)
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RE: New Batteries - 3/4/2007 7:49:18 PM   
Tram



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What part confused you?

Here are some more links:

http://www.dream-models.com/eco/electrics-charging.html

If the charger you own has auto-detect capabilities, just throw it on the charger and hit the "go" button..

< Message edited by Tram -- 3/4/2007 7:53:02 PM >


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RE: New Batteries - 3/4/2007 9:02:55 PM   
Gillyman


 

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I just got the batteries and i'm not sure how to charge them... I have a Hobbico 920 charger it has a 15 min timer, charge and discharge button, volt/amp switch, and a current adjust knob with low to high and a digital display. What I did with my original packs was charge them for 15 mins then run them in my Traxxas. I did this a lot of time's and notticed the run time's getting shorter, I guess I fried them. So I decided to get some new batteries, but I want to charge these correctly. I just looking for some advice from the pros since i'm a noob to this.

Thanks for the help!!!

Gilly

(in reply to Tram)
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RE: New Batteries - 3/4/2007 9:39:26 PM   
Tram



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Looks like you need a new charger, not new batteries..

What was your old packs MAH rate?

I'm not even sure the Hobbico 920 is rated to charge NiMh packs.. I cannot find anything about charging Nimh in the instructions and it appears to only be good to 1700mah packs...

Instruction manual: http://manuals.hobbico.com/hca/hcap0175-0190-manual.pdf

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RE: New Batteries - 3/5/2007 12:49:03 AM   
Gillyman


 

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Tram thanks for the great information as I am new to this, THANKS!!!. My old packs were Nitro power Competitor series high capacity 7.2 volts1700ma, and my other set is Dynamite Dyna-Sport 1500. I was on the Hobbico web site and saw that it may be limited to these set of packs. I sent them a e-mail Friday night 3/2/07 asking them if the charger was able to charge my new packs(tenergy 6 cells 3500mah ni-mh) I hope to hear from them with in the week. Worse case, I need to get a new charger, what would you recomend as a new charger and the process I would need to charge the new batteries?

Thanks again for all your help

Gilly

(in reply to Tram)
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RE: New Batteries - 3/5/2007 4:37:10 AM   
Tram



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It depends.. Are you planning on staying with NIMH's or do you think you'll ever use LIpos?

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RE: New Batteries - 3/5/2007 1:36:09 PM   
Gillyman


 

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I think i'm going to stay with NIMH. I should of done some research on batteries before I purchased these.

Gilly

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RE: New Batteries - 3/6/2007 4:26:38 AM   
Tram



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Ah, i wouldn't be too upset, just get a newer, nicer charger..

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RE: New Batteries - 3/6/2007 10:33:27 PM   
Gillyman


 

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Ok sounds good whats a good multi purpose charger that I can get? Still haven't heard from Hobbico about my charger

Thanks Gilly

(in reply to Tram)
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RE: New Batteries - 3/7/2007 3:59:20 AM   
Tram



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Well, since you are going to stay with Nimh's, there are a ton of good chargers..

May want to look at the Triton..

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RE: New Batteries - 3/7/2007 11:45:17 PM   
Gillyman


 

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Will this one work?

http://cgi.ebay.com/Electrifly-Triton-DC-Charger-Charges-NIMH-NICAD-LIPO_W0QQitemZ150097427157QQcategoryZ34056QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Gilly

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RE: New Batteries - 3/10/2007 5:29:42 PM   
Tram



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From: Florence, AL, USA
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Yes, that is the Triton, sorry I was late on the reply..

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