RE: Peppermint Pattie  
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RE: Peppermint Pattie - 9/25/2007 11:34:26 PM   
rainedave



Posts: 5190
Joined: 7/21/2005
From: Greensboro, NC, USA
Status: online 		Wow! Looks good, nice "kit."

Since I don't have an economical way to cut cores, I'm going with a built-up wing, too. I drew up the rib patterns and a drawing to build over.

David

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RE: Peppermint Pattie - 9/26/2007 12:25:47 AM   
WEDJ



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Joined: 2/21/2007
From: East Haddam, CT, USA
Status: offline 		I'll be very interested to see a built-up wing version and hear about the flight characteristics.

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RE: Peppermint Pattie - 9/26/2007 12:33:23 AM   
WEDJ



Posts: 1008
Joined: 2/21/2007
From: East Haddam, CT, USA
Status: offline 		Here's the shot of the differential I was talking about earlier today.

PS - the belly pan does not need a doubler.

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< Message edited by WEDJ -- 9/26/2007 12:35:07 AM >

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RE: Peppermint Pattie - 9/26/2007 12:38:01 AM   
WEDJ



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quote:

ORIGINAL: AllTheGoodNamesAreTaken

I can side mount the Cox Conquest with minimal modification, but then the muffler would hang down, which would require me to add landing gear.


Actually, a wire center skid bent a bit rearward would do nicely. Mount it on the firewall.


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RE: Peppermint Pattie - 9/26/2007 1:37:22 AM   
airbusdrvr


 

Posts: 864
Joined: 11/3/2005
From: New Port Richey, FL, USA
Status: offline 		WEDJ, you have piqued my curiosity with your differential aileron with a single servo. I can't seem to copy one page from the .pdf file for the Tower Kaos instructions, but on page 9 of this link, http://www.towerhobbies.com/products/pdf/towa2052mnl.pdf, the single aileron servo setup is shown. How would this be modified to give differential aileron?

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       Post #: 130

RE: Peppermint Pattie - 9/26/2007 2:30:59 AM   
Mad Man Marko-RCU


 

Posts: 253
Joined: 1/2/2003
From: Oakdale, CT, USA
Status: offline 		What I used to do on low wing ships with a single (or double would be the same) is to use a servo wheel for control and intsead of using the center holes I would use the first hole back from the center. Set the ailerons level with the rod in that hole and with the same throw in each direction you will get more up than down (differential). If the servo was mounted on the wing bottom use the first hole forward of center on the wheel.

The good old days before computer radios.

Hope this helps.

Peace

Mark O


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RE: Peppermint Pattie - 9/26/2007 2:53:45 AM   
airbusdrvr


 

Posts: 864
Joined: 11/3/2005
From: New Port Richey, FL, USA
Status: offline 		Neat idea to use a wheel on the servo. In the attached pic, the same method was used with two servos to get differential rudder from two servos that were Y-connected on a single channel. I'm going to get one of my wheel servo controls and try it on the Kaos.

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RE: Peppermint Pattie - 9/26/2007 3:12:25 AM   
Mad Man Marko-RCU


 

Posts: 253
Joined: 1/2/2003
From: Oakdale, CT, USA
Status: offline 		The wheel offset works due to the geometry of rotary servos having more throw (linear) at the center of their travel than towards the ends. This actually results in having reverse exponential in the controls. So any model with rotary servos will be slightly hotter around neutral than at the extremes. When proportional radios first came out all the servos had a linear output or a combo linear and rotary. On my Futaba 9ZAPS there is a setting in the expo/dualrate setup for (true linear) which give you -16% expo. So if you do not have this on your radio remember that you need at least -20% to really have any expo at all.

Hope this helps.

Peace

Mark O



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RE: Peppermint Pattie - 9/26/2007 3:23:00 AM   
AllTheGoodNamesAreTaken



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quote:

ORIGINAL: rainedave

Wow! Looks good, nice "kit."

Since I don't have an economical way to cut cores, I'm going with a built-up wing, too. I drew up the rib patterns and a drawing to build over.

David

David,
Did you not get the built up wing plan with rib patterns with your plans? Mine shows 12 ribs. You're welcome to make a copy if you wish.

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RE: Peppermint Pattie - 9/26/2007 5:00:07 AM   
rainedave



Posts: 5190
Joined: 7/21/2005
From: Greensboro, NC, USA
Status: online 		I just re-drew it with eight ribs. It's not going to save any noticeable weight.

Here's a link to Aileron Differential. There are some image links at the bottom of the page:

http://www.mindspring.com/~cramskill/diffthro.htm

Look at the third diagram on the far right in this image. The holes where the aileron pushrods connect travel 45° each way around the arc of the wheel, but the pushrods travel unequal distances forward and back. There is more forward travel and less rearward travel.

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< Message edited by rainedave -- 9/26/2007 5:04:27 AM >

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RE: Peppermint Pattie - 9/26/2007 7:11:19 AM   
Ed Cregger



Posts: 7746
Joined: 1/31/2002
From: Ringgold, GA, USA
Status: offline 		If one uses ball links on the aileron linkage, and the wing is near the datum line of the model, no differential is needed. The whole idea is to get the wing to "fly" through the natural roll of the model, instead of skidding.

Once upon a time (as many of you will remember) our servos used a square output peg, instead of being fitted with fine splines. There was no electronic neutral adjust, no exponential, no total travel control (volume) and you had to set up your model to fly through the maneuvers with only your ability to "see the angles" needed in the servo's output wheels. Honest! I laugh when I hear people bellyaching about having to set up radios today.

Being an old troll, I still do as much trimming as I can mechanically. Then, if needed, I'll tweak it up with the electronics on the Tx.


Ed Cregger


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RE: Peppermint Pattie - 9/26/2007 11:33:51 AM   
WEDJ



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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ed Cregger
Once upon a time (as many of you will remember) our servos used a square output peg, instead of being fitted with fine splines. There was no electronic neutral adjust, no exponential, no total travel control (volume) and you had to set up your model to fly through the maneuvers with only your ability to "see the angles" needed in the servo's output wheels. Honest! I laugh when I hear people bellyaching about having to set up radios today.
Ed Cregger


Amen! My PP is set up without any mixing etc.


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RE: Peppermint Pattie - 9/26/2007 1:55:21 PM   
rainedave



Posts: 5190
Joined: 7/21/2005
From: Greensboro, NC, USA
Status: online 		I also believe in getting 90-some% of the way there mechanically. In fact, with the exception of some throttle channels, all of my model memories have the travel set to at least 100% on 1,2 and 4.

One thing I don't like seeing at the field are other models with the pushrods connected to the outermost servo arm hole and the innermost control horn hole. This only decreases the resolution of servo and control surface travel making the controls jerky and overly sensitive. It's like going back to pulse control.

I always start with the pushrods connected to the innermost hole on the servo arm and the outermost one on the horn. If I need more travel I can increase it with the transmitter, but I usually don't. It makes control surface travel very smooth and precise. It also keeps stick travel proportional to surface travel and gives you access to the full range of stick movement. It feels like having a bit of expo. It's amazing how much precision it adds to your control when you have access to the full range of stick movement.

David

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RE: Peppermint Pattie - 9/26/2007 6:41:14 PM   
Mad Man Marko-RCU


 

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Joined: 1/2/2003
From: Oakdale, CT, USA
Status: offline 		Ed:
That is the best way to go at the setup. Make it mechanically correct and use the whells and arms to get what you want . Then you can use a little MAGIC from the radio to really fine tune the plane. I still have a bunch of those square output servos around and some linear ones too.

Here's to "The Good Old Days"

Peace


Mark O

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