RE: Stick and Tissue? I am in need of a mentor.

RE: Stick and Tissue? I am in need of a mentor.
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RE: Stick and Tissue? I am in need of a mentor. - 3/27/2007 5:28:43 PM

Kmot

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From: Northridge, CA, USA
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Rod, you know I did notice the tissue sagging and touching when I wetted it with water. But fortunately it shrank tight and did not stick together. Now I am worried about what happened with the dope. I have yet to go out to the shed.

Another question, regarding the direction of grain. It seems to me that the one side of the fuselage that I covered, has the grain going vertically instead of horizontally the length of the fuselage. When it comes time to shrink it, will that cause a problem? I am concerned about warping, or whatever. Should I pull that tissue off and redo it?

I am using a twin cartridge respirator. It is amazing. I breathe clean, sweet air. When I take it off, I almost fall over from the fumes! Did we used to actually do this in the house??

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RE: Stick and Tissue? I am in need of a mentor. - 3/27/2007 5:35:50 PM

Gollywock

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An emery board (like your wife uses to file her finger nails) works very well for trimming excess tissue. Jim

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RE: Stick and Tissue? I am in need of a mentor. - 3/27/2007 6:34:17 PM

mclina

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I didn't pay much attention to the grain when I recently built two stick and tissue planes. I don't think it is worth tearing apart finshed work for.

Here is a picture of the Zero I recently built.

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RE: Stick and Tissue? I am in need of a mentor. - 3/27/2007 8:02:23 PM

Tee Bee

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I'm new to the RC plane world but have built a handful of tissue-covered rubber powered models. I recently finished a Guillow's Triplane. I have found this site helpful. There's lots of info available on the threads there with different covering techniques explained. I'm now a fan of the "wet method" of covering with tissue you can find there. Good luck. http://balsamodels.com/phpBB/viewforum.php?f=2

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RE: Stick and Tissue? I am in need of a mentor. - 3/27/2007 9:02:13 PM

Kmot

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From: Northridge, CA, USA
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Thanks for the link Tee Bee!!

Okay, I went out to the shed and the dope had dried and the tissue did not stick to itself. I sanded the raggedy edges and the excess came off nicely. I also managed to tear the covering on the rudder where it ran across a 1/16" stick due to excessive thumb pressure? I also broke another 1/16" stick in the fuselage.

Anyway, I have applied a second coat of thinned dope. I have also applied two more panels to the fuselage. I am leaving the first panel in place. I am running out of thinner fast. So I have left the used thinner and the mixed dope in the plastic pudding cups and sealed them with Saran Wrap and rubber bands. I think I need some extra bottles!

I am really enjoying this little build. Maybe that monkey will finally be off my back!

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RE: Stick and Tissue? I am in need of a mentor. - 3/28/2007 2:10:51 AM

heli_Rod

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quote:

So I have left the used thinner and the mixed dope in the plastic pudding cups and sealed them with Saran Wrap and rubber bands. I think I need some extra bottles!

LOL...a word of caution...dope loves to eat anything plastic! The bottom of the cup may not be there when you go to get it...LOL

If you have a Hobby Lobby craft/knicknack store close by....they usually stock glass bottles for air brush painters. I have a bunch of them and work great for paint storage. They also have a paper or fiber gasket. Dope also eats rubber...even the fumes will soften rubber.

I don't think I'd strip the covering you have already applied unless it's causing a problem.

Rod

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RE: Stick and Tissue? I am in need of a mentor. - 3/28/2007 2:49:02 AM

Gollywock

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I hate to have to tell you this Kmot, but once you start building these stick and tissue jobs, the monkey will never get off your back

Jim

PS- really nice build- Jim

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RE: Stick and Tissue? I am in need of a mentor. - 3/28/2007 5:39:44 AM

Kmot

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quote:

ORIGINAL: heli_Rod

LOL...a word of caution...dope loves to eat anything plastic! The bottom of the cup may not be there when you go to get it...LOL

You spooked me! I just went out to the shed and checked it. Still as solid as can be. But I put it inside a drinking glass just to be safe!

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RE: Stick and Tissue? I am in need of a mentor. - 3/28/2007 12:24:45 PM

mclina

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kmot

quote:

ORIGINAL: heli_Rod

LOL...a word of caution...dope loves to eat anything plastic! The bottom of the cup may not be there when you go to get it...LOL

You spooked me! I just went out to the shed and checked it. Still as solid as can be. But I put it inside a drinking glass just to be safe!

I didn't realize that dope eats plastic, but I do know that thinner does. I left a little bit of thinner in the bottom of a plastic cup for about 5 minutes - luckily, I was already finished with that part of the plans

. It was a gooey mess.

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RE: Stick and Tissue? I am in need of a mentor. - 3/28/2007 11:53:37 PM

Kmot

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I must have 'good plastic' pudding cups because they have not even softened, let alone melted. It could also be the brand of dope. Some dopes may attack plastic and some may not. I don't know, but this is leading me up to a question.

I went to my LHS to buy more Sig thinner because that is what I already have. Sig dope and thinner. But man-o-man, is the Sig stuff expensive. I looked at some other brands, Brodak for one. A quart of thinner for $2 bucks less than a pint of Sig. 8 ounces of Brodak dope for less than 4 ounces of Sig dope. I asked my LHS guy if I could use Brodak thinner and was told no, it won't work with Sig dope.

So, to my questions:

1) Are there any dopes/thinners from different manufacturers that are compatible?

2) What would happen if I used regular lacquer thinner with dope? Or paint thinner with dope?

3) If I have already applied Sig dope, and it has dried, could I later apply Brodak dope/thinner?

I also looked for some glass jars. I went to a Michael's craft store and found these glass jars. All sizes in the store were $1 each. Even jars four times this size. Seems to me these should have cost a quarter dollar, lol...

And finally, my horizontal stab has warped after the two coats of dope. Is there anything I can do about it?

Thanks for all the help you guys!

Some progress pics:

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RE: Stick and Tissue? I am in need of a mentor. - 3/29/2007 2:15:34 AM

Gollywock

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Kmot- Lacquer thinner will work fine. I'd use the automotive thinner rather than the cheap fast evaporating stuff from the hardware store. As far as over-coating, a gereral rule is you can overcoat nitrate dope with butyrate, but not the other way around. Jim

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RE: Stick and Tissue? I am in need of a mentor. - 3/29/2007 2:51:24 AM

Phlip

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From: Auburn, MA, USA
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Hi. Just discovered this thread. Nice job on the Tri-Pacer!

I've built a few of the Herr and Dumas kits, and I love the laser cutting.

As for dope compatibility, I've been buying Sig thinner by the quart, and using it with Sig nitrate, Sig butyrate, Brodak and Pactra Aero Gloss dopes with no problems. I've also never had a problem mixing butyrate dopes from different manufacturers, or overcoating. One thing you can't do, I've been told, so I've not tried it, is put Nitrate dope over Butyrate dope, ever.

As for the warp, get your tea kettle boiling, and direct the steam from the spout at the part for 30 seconds both sides. Be careful to not scald yourself ... use an oven mitt or toaster tongs or somesuch to hold the part in the steam. Remove the part from the steam and immediately twist it the same amount in the opposite direction. Hold it for a few minutes, and cool it and dry it with your breath. When it's back to room temp and dry, relax it and it should return to straight. May take a few attempts to get it, but then you'll know how. Good luck.

Phil

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RE: Stick and Tissue? I am in need of a mentor. - 3/29/2007 4:48:00 AM

Kmot

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Thanks for the info Gollywock and Phillip. You just saved me some money! (that is very hard to come by anymore.)

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RE: Stick and Tissue? I am in need of a mentor. - 3/30/2007 11:22:18 PM

Kmot

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From: Northridge, CA, USA
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I have made a lot of progress today! I finished covering the fuselage, and then applied dope. It got two coats of dope. Then a light sanding around the corner edges, and another coat of dope.

I got the wing covered, and the tissue wetted lightly and shrunk. I have wetted it one more time to tighten it up a bit more. Finally, I applied a bit of dope to the warped stab, and then weighted it down. This is info I got from my lhs. Seems easier than the steam method, so I am trying this first. If it doesn't work, I will try the steam method.

The fuselage has a few minor wrinkles here and there. Overall, I am very pleased with myself and how this is turning out. It is 1000% better than what I tried as a kid.

Progress pics:

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