RE: Brushed Electric Motor Break-In Guide (Not Just For Heli's)

RE: Brushed Electric Motor Break-In Guide (Not Just For Heli's)
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RE: Brushed Electric Motor Break-In Guide (Not Just Fo... - 8/24/2007 12:48 AM

shufflez

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Thanks a lot for this info! I'm awaiting arrival of the Xtreme 180 motors/engines, with silver brushes, any specific notes on these silver ones? Or just the same as with the carbon ones?

I'm definately going to break the motors/engines when i get them! I really like the Amp-'improval' you've achieved with breaking-in!
Which should mean that the flight time is longer, which is what we all want!

What exactly is the difference between silver and carbon brushes? I've read somewhere that one gives more power, the other gives better durability, but can't find where i saw that... And can't remember which is which

.
So I just ordered some replacement/spare silver brushes for my 'engines' (you cant really call them engine, can you

(in Dutch, both mean the same; engine=motor, motor=motor

...
But maybe carbon brushes are good to have in stock too?

(currently only for the CX2, still trying to decide between 450 or 600 and gas or electric for my next heli)

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RE: Brushed Electric Motor Break-In Guide (Not Just Fo... - 8/24/2007 4:44 PM

mrasmm

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yeah, no prob =)

I do believe that carbon gives the better performance and the silver would last longer, although I am not really sure. I'm also not really sure if there would be anything special you would have to do, but I would say just break them in as normal =)

You could try a set of each and see how they perform and see which ones you like the best. The car guys might know more about what kind of brushes are good for which application. They would deal more with motors with interchangable brushes than us heli guys =)

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RE: Brushed Electric Motor Break-In Guide (Not Just Fo... - 10/15/2007 2:53 AM

Patrick_

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Great guide! Question: do you think...

1) It's worth it to do this to a motor that has been used around 10 times without performing the break-in process?
2) Running it in water cleans the commutator better/more easily than disassembling the motor and using an eraser/sandpaper?

Thanks!

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RE: Brushed Electric Motor Break-In Guide (Not Just Fo... - 10/15/2007 10:23 AM

mrasmm

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yeah, no prob =)

1) sure, better late than never, but it's better to do it basically right when you get it. I don't really know where it starts making alot of difference (like where it would be too late), but I would imagine it's past 10 flights, or 1.5-2.5 hours flight time.

2) I think the water would be better (just make sure to clean it all out and relube it), because when you take it apart you could mess up the angles that the brushes touch the com (timing) or tension on the brushess or a bunch of other things. Most motors are not designed to take apart, so you might also have trouble getting them to stay together once they are apart. YMMV, but that's the approach I would take.

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RE: Brushed Electric Motor Break-In Guide (Not Just Fo... - 10/15/2007 8:00 PM

tourettesguy26

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Holy crap, you're MacGuyver!!!

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RE: Brushed Electric Motor Break-In Guide (Not Just For... - 11/5/2007 2:23 AM

Whistler71

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Thanks, great guide. What about breaking in motors such as the Align motors that have 3 leads (Red-Blue-Black) coming out of the motor? Is this break-in "really " needed?

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RE: Brushed Electric Motor Break-In Guide (Not Just For... - 11/5/2007 9:23 AM

mrasmm

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Whistler71

Thanks, great guide. What about breaking in motors such as the Align motors that have 3 leads (Red-Blue-Black) coming out of the motor? Is this break-in "really " needed?

Thanks =)

that's probably a brushless motor if it's got 3 leads, so in that case nope, no breakin required =)

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RE: Brushed Electric Motor Break-In Guide (Not Just For... - 11/5/2007 3:33 PM

Whistler71

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mrasmm

quote:

ORIGINAL: Whistler71

Thanks, great guide. What about breaking in motors such as the Align motors that have 3 leads (Red-Blue-Black) coming out of the motor? Is this break-in "really " needed?

Thanks =)

that's probably a brushless motor if it's got 3 leads, so in that case nope, no breakin required =)

Cool, thanks and sorry for the newbie question, it IS a brushless. Thanks again.

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RE: Brushed Electric Motor Break-In Guide (Not Just F... - 11/5/2007 11:57 PM

mrasmm

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yeah man, no prob =) I'd rather you ask than put your nice expensive brushless motor in a tank of water trying to break it in =) Actually someone mentioned that to me before, so that's why I changed the title to brushed motor breaking, before it was just motor break in =) GL

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RE: Brushed Electric Motor Break-In Guide (Not Just F... - 1/1/2008 5:33 AM

eat2muchrice

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mrasmm,
I just finished reading your how to guide on motor break-in and thought it was great. Thanks for that info.
Heres a picture of me breaking in my new xtreme motors with silver brushings for my Blade CX2.

Attachments

Click to see fullsize image.

Click for fullsize

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RE: Brushed Electric Motor Break-In Guide (Not Just F... - 2/28/2008 11:30 PM

nitrofreak06

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i would like to do this to the motors on my Honey Bee FP that will be here in a few days, but my dad doesnt want me to becasue he thinks that it will do more harm then good.. what should i do? lol

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RE: Brushed Electric Motor Break-In Guide (Not Just F... - 2/29/2008 7:27 AM

mrasmm

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Micro RC Racing Owner Shane

i would like to do this to the motors on my Honey Bee FP that will be here in a few days, but my dad doesnt want me to becasue he thinks that it will do more harm then good.. what should i do? lol

well have him read the article if he hasn't, and see if that helps him make more sense of the benefits of doing it. If not, then I guess that's where you are =) The motors are only like $10 bucks depending on where you buy them, so it's not too big of a deal either way, as long as it doesn't cause damage to the 4 in 1 =)

GL

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RE: Brushed Electric Motor Break-In Guide (Not Just Fo... - 5/19/2008 4:49 PM

mysteryguymlt

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excellent explanation. keep up the good work to all. mysteryguymlt

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RE: Brushed Electric Motor Break-In Guide (Not Just F... - 8/9/2008 11:40 PM

craigcannon

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i have just got 2 new 14.4v brushed motors for my e-savage

can i run them in by attaching a 7.2v 4500mah batt till its dead

and i sumise you run them in independantly,

so one 14.4v motor for one 7.2v bat ?

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RE: Brushed Electric Motor Break-In Guide (Not Just F... - 8/10/2008 4:13 AM

choppersrule

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Craigcannon,

Yes, you can use a 7.2 volt battery. I don't know what type battery you are using, but don't run a Lipo until it's dead. If you do, you will destroy the battery. You don't need to run them independantly, you could wire the battery to both motors at the same time if you wanted to. Just make sure the polarity is correct. In other words, you wouldn't want to break in the brushed in the wrong direction.

It's not the speed of the motor that is critical, all that is being done is seating the brushes to conform to the shape of the armature and some polishing of the brushes. It definately helps, but won't make the motors last a life time.

Dave / Choppersrule

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RE: Brushed Electric Motor Break-In Guide (Not Just F... - 8/10/2008 9:54 AM

mrasmm

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looks like choppers beat me to it =P

you can run the motors singly, or you can run them in parallel, or you can run them in series. For the motors I've done, I find that somewhere around 1/4th to 1/3rd of the rated voltage you will run them works well for seating the brushes, while not over heating the motors. Even without a load on them many of these motors get quite hot because the windings are basically a pure resistance load. To do that the best option for you would be to run the motors in series. Which is one lead from the battery to one pole on the motor, connecting one pole of each motor together, and connecting the remaining pole to the other lead of the battery.

Of course the polarity of the motors during break in can make enough of a difference that I think it's worth checking, like choppers already suggested.

Also with your pack since it is rechargeable the LVC (low voltage cut off) is going to be a big deal for the life of your pack. 1.0v/cell under load for NiCD and MiMH, and 3.0v/cell under load with lithium packs except a123's, and with those LVC truly is not that big of a deal. If you are just hardwiring to a pack, this could be very easy to let slip by, and it could damage or reduce the capacity of your pack, especially in the case of lithium packs. If you have something like an exquinox (or the hyperion or a bunch of others that are the same thing), it will work great for this purpose with lipo's.. Set it to the same mode you charge in and use those leads to hook to the motors. It will only allow it to go to 3.0v per cell if I remember right (it's either that or 2.7v per cell, which is a little low), and then it will shut off.

Good luck =)

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RE: Brushed Electric Motor Break-In Guide (Not Just F... - 8/10/2008 6:31 PM

craigcannon

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it is a 4500mah nimh 7.2v pack

i dont have any low voltage cut offs and my esc doesnt have one ether so it wont hurt will it?

after about 10 mins these motors will flatern the battery, will this be enough time?

< Message edited by craigcannon -- 8/10/2008 6:35 PM >

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RE: Brushed Electric Motor Break-In Guide (Not Just F... - 8/11/2008 6:51 AM

mrasmm

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10 min is pretty short to seat the brushes, although it's probably better than not doing one.

So with no load these motors draw 27A each? That's quite a bit. My guess is that it probably draws that much when you run them in your truck, but if you run the motors no load, they should draw significantly less power.

What I would probably do is if you have a computer PSU (you can convert them for RC use), then hook the motors up on the 5v rail, probably one at a time unless they draw a lot less than what you're thinking, and let them run for a bit. I've found it takes longer than you think to actually seat the brushes. I think the pic I have on this post is somewhere around 90min, and that motor had some ridges on the brushes that let it break in faster, and I'm not sure that you could call those brushes seated.

If you just have the battery pack, hook up a volt meter to the leads and just measure it every few minutes, and when it hits 6.0v then take the pack off and throw it on the charger.

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RE: Brushed Electric Motor Break-In Guide (Not Just F... - 8/11/2008 11:46 PM

craigcannon

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i said this time because when they are in the truck it flattens two 3300mah packs in about 15mins or so

and they draw about 15 amps when running in truck at full speed, and about 45amps getting up to full speed!

(truck takes 2 motors and two batterys)

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RE: Brushed Electric Motor Break-In Guide (Not Just F... - 8/23/2008 4:28 PM

Scottie31

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Thanks for the Guide really cleared alot of ?'s I had about breakin in a new motor Mine is coming on Thursday !!

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RE: Brushed Electric Motor Break-In Guide (Not Just F... - 10/13/2008 3:06 AM

Karter01

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Sorry for bringing up an old thread.

So, based on the above info, the rubbing alcohol is the best break in procedure? Or is the water?
Thanks

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RE: Brushed Electric Motor Break-In Guide (Not Just F... - 10/13/2008 9:04 AM

mrasmm

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Karter01

Sorry for bringing up an old thread.

So, based on the above info, the rubbing alcohol is the best break in procedure? Or is the water?
Thanks

Hey, no prob =) If it applies then it's not old to me.

If you want to do a wet break in then alcohol would be a better choice than water because it evaporates more completely than water (so less corrosion). Of course be careful because it is flammable. Make sure to oil everything back up with just enough to coat the rubbing parts.

I still would recommend the dry break in method though, but whatever way you want to do it =)

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RE: Brushed Electric Motor Break-In Guide (Not Just F... - 10/13/2008 7:00 PM

Karter01

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mrasmm

quote:

ORIGINAL: Karter01

Sorry for bringing up an old thread.

So, based on the above info, the rubbing alcohol is the best break in procedure? Or is the water?
Thanks

Hey, no prob =) If it applies then it's not old to me.

If you want to do a wet break in then alcohol would be a better choice than water because it evaporates more completely than water (so less corrosion). Of course be careful because it is flammable. Make sure to oil everything back up with just enough to coat the rubbing parts.

I still would recommend the dry break in method though, but whatever way you want to do it =)

Alright thanks for the reply.

Why would you go with dry break in? Isn't there more friction? Or am I getting things confused?
Thanks again

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RE: Brushed Electric Motor Break-In Guide (Not Just F... - 10/13/2008 8:55 PM

mrasmm

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Karter01

Alright thanks for the reply.

Why would you go with dry break in? Isn't there more friction? Or am I getting things confused?
Thanks again

Sure, no prob. A wet break in takes all of the oil out of the motor. Most people think that it's carbon dust coming off the commutator. Basically with the small motors that we are talking about, they are not made to take apart, so it's going to be difficult to oil them with just enough oil and not get too much on there. If oil gets on the comm from excess oil being spun around fast and flinging off, it's not going to perform as well. Also I've never seen an mfg recommend a wet break in, although I have seen a couple recommend dry. If the motors aren't too pricey (and most rc ones are not), give it a try either way and see which one works better for you =)

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RE: Brushed Electric Motor Break-In Guide (Not Just F... - 10/13/2008 9:26 PM

Karter01

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mrasmm

quote:

ORIGINAL: Karter01

Alright thanks for the reply.

Why would you go with dry break in? Isn't there more friction? Or am I getting things confused?
Thanks again

Sure, no prob. A wet break in takes all of the oil out of the motor. Most people think that it's carbon dust coming off the commutator. Basically with the small motors that we are talking about, they are not made to take apart, so it's going to be difficult to oil them with just enough oil and not get too much on there. If oil gets on the comm from excess oil being spun around fast and flinging off, it's not going to perform as well. Also I've never seen an mfg recommend a wet break in, although I have seen a couple recommend dry. If the motors aren't too pricey (and most rc ones are not), give it a try either way and see which one works better for you =)

Alright thanks for the info, looks like I'll go with the dry.

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