RE: What Next....Looking Ahead! (Full Version)

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wesss -> RE: What Next....Looking Ahead! (4/3/2007 10:26 PM)

So I did the downgrade from the Bell-Hiller blade grips to the CP blade grips and the heli is quite erratic. It's much less sensitive, which I'm not really used to, but it seems to bounce in flight. I'll be hovering and all of a sudden it jumps higher in the air, then falls randomly. Anyone got any suggestions?



mrasmm -> RE: What Next....Looking Ahead! (4/3/2007 10:36 PM)

was it working before you changed the grips? if so you've likely got a sticky collective problem.... just check the order of the way the parts are put on the spindle. I've done several posts on this lately, just search my message archive if you can't find something.



wesss -> RE: What Next....Looking Ahead! (4/3/2007 11:02 PM)

Thanks, I just tried swapping the washer and the stepped washer and it's a little better. I'm still having the same problem that I didn't mention earlier with rough landings. If I cut the throttle a little to land, it lands really hard against the ground. When I was flying with the bell-hiller grips, I could cut the throttle easily and make a light landing everytime. Is this just normal flight characteristics? I'm kind of leaning towards going back to the bell-hiller setup, it felt tighter/quicker and easier to control...



mrasmm -> RE: What Next....Looking Ahead! (4/3/2007 11:05 PM)

yeah... I recommend trying the bell-hiller grips to start with, and if they don't work then maybe going for the hiller grips... if the bell hiller was working for you I say use it... I don't really have any personal experience with the hiller grips so i can't really answer that q



choppersrule -> RE: What Next....Looking Ahead! (4/3/2007 11:36 PM)

Wesss,

I have both the stock grips and the bell-hiller grips. You're right the bell-hiller is tighter/quicker, the stock grips are okay too. Just a little sluggish in response compared the the B/H.

Bouncing:

Another thing to check for bouncing is the rotor hub and rotor head assembly for any sticking. Disconnect the two paddle control links from the swashplate. Now grab the flybar close to the rotor head and each side. Lift up sloooowly, and feel if there is any friction at all. Ther shouldn't be any. Let the flybar go and the Rotor head should just fall on it's own. You don't want any friction between the rotor hub and rotor head.. If there is try a little lubrication, 3n1 oil, or gun oil. something of that nature and retry..
Still have friction, need to take it apart and do some fine filing or sanding, until you have no friction. Resently, I had a brand new rotor hub that had to filed alot, to eliminate binding.

Hard Landings:

You mentioned you've had several hard landings..when cutting the throttle Two things come to mind...

1) Check that the main shaft retaining collar hasn't slipped up the shaft.. Hold the heli, and push up on the main gear, if it moves upwards at all, then loosen the screw in the retaining collar, move it down to the shaft until it is setting on the main frame and retighten screw..

2) You may have to much pitch adjustment on your blades.. If, when lifting off, you get off the ground with less than 65 or 70% throttle, in normal mode, you have to much pitch.. Disconnect the pitch control links and shorten them by 1 full turn(clockwise).
Pitch is kinda a personal preference, depends on the type of hovering/flying your doing. Just experiment with it and you'll find what works for you.

Hope this helps ya, Let us know how it comes out.. Or go back to the B/H,, I go back and forth all the time..

Dave / Choppersrule

quote:

ORIGINAL: wesss

Thanks, I just tried swapping the washer and the stepped washer and it's a little better. I'm still having the same problem that I didn't mention earlier with rough landings. If I cut the throttle a little to land, it lands really hard against the ground. When I was flying with the bell-hiller grips, I could cut the throttle easily and make a light landing everytime. Is this just normal flight characteristics? I'm kind of leaning towards going back to the bell-hiller setup, it felt tighter/quicker and easier to control...




wesss -> RE: What Next....Looking Ahead! (4/7/2007 9:17 PM)

OK! So I've been fiddling around all week and finally noticed what's wrong. I'm still using the regular cp style head (non bell-hiller) and the heli keeps bouncing like craaazy. I realized that when I lean forward or backwards on the right thumb controls, the heli is changing pitch still. Not sure if this makes sense, but when I try and control the heli with my right thumb, it also seems to be affecting the pitch of the heli's blades. this is why the changing pitch makes the heli jump up and down everytime I try make cyclic inputs....



mrasmm -> RE: What Next....Looking Ahead! (4/7/2007 9:43 PM)

that sounds even more like a sticky collective problem to me...

try this
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=452072



wesss -> RE: What Next....Looking Ahead! (4/7/2007 10:08 PM)

Thanks! Why is it that I have 3 bearings and the spacer in each blade grip, where the picture only shows 2 bearings and a spacer in between.... Maybe that's my problem?



wesss -> RE: What Next....Looking Ahead! (4/7/2007 10:36 PM)

ok I just checked the cp manual and it takes 3 bearings, not 2, so nothing wrong there. What I DO notice is there's lots of space/slop between the blade grips and the center hub. I can pull the blade grips in and out about 3mms. It's as if there should be some shims between the rubber o-rings and the blade grip. I only have the single stepped washer between the o-ring and the bearing on the blade grips. That's exactly as the manual states. It seems as though the metal spindle is too long, it can slide back and forth when everything's fully tightened...

edit: I have another theory... My 3in1 gets pretty warm after just moving the servos around for about a minute (without even spinning up the rotors). It seems as though the servo mixing is messed up maybe. With cyclic inputs only, the swashplate slides up and down on the main shaft. So if I move the right stick around in circles, the swashplate moves up and down randomly as well, which in turn changes the pitch in the blades and causes the bouncing up and down...



choppersrule -> RE: What Next....Looking Ahead! (4/8/2007 3:33 AM)

Wesss,

Not all helis are created equally, for the slop in the grips/center hub you may have to add a shim or two to tighten that gap up. I have two shims plus the ridged washer. BTW the ridged side of that washer always points to the bearing. Here's a link of the shims you need, your LHS should have them too. Link: http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=EFLH1144

Your therory::: With the left stick moving up and down, it's perfectly normal for the swashplate to move up and down. If it didn't you'd never get off the ground. Moving the left stick up, both increases head speed and increases pitch. Too much slop in the head will give the blades a tidder-todder effect and can cause some strange effect. Get that cleared and see what happens.

Moving the right stick in circles shouldn't move the swashplate up or down, but in may be an illusion to you because the front goes up and the back goes down and side ways all together. Watch it closely and move the stick slowly.

If you still need help, give us a hoot,

Dave / Choppersrule
quote:

ORIGINAL: wesss

ok I just checked the cp manual and it takes 3 bearings, not 2, so nothing wrong there. What I DO notice is there's lots of space/slop between the blade grips and the center hub. I can pull the blade grips in and out about 3mms. It's as if there should be some shims between the rubber o-rings and the blade grip. I only have the single stepped washer between the o-ring and the bearing on the blade grips. That's exactly as the manual states. It seems as though the metal spindle is too long, it can slide back and forth when everything's fully tightened...

edit: I have another theory... My 3in1 gets pretty warm after just moving the servos around for about a minute (without even spinning up the rotors). It seems as though the servo mixing is messed up maybe. With cyclic inputs only, the swashplate slides up and down on the main shaft. So if I move the right stick around in circles, the swashplate moves up and down randomly as well, which in turn changes the pitch in the blades and causes the bouncing up and down...




wesss -> RE: What Next....Looking Ahead! (4/8/2007 6:16 AM)

I watched the swashplate very carefully and without touching the left stick at all, I can use the right stick to move it up and down the shaft maybe 2-3mms of travel... This makes the rotor headset (part that holds the flybar) slide up and down on the center hub, which in turn changes the pitch of the blades. After the long weekend I'm heading back to the hobby shop to pick up some bell-hiller grips, this whole thing bothers me! [>:]

edit: another theory could be pretty plain and simple... my local hobby shop gave me an e-sky center hub/spindle set claiming it works on the e-flite helis... I'm going to go back and get myself an e-flite one as it looks quite different...



choppersrule -> RE: What Next....Looking Ahead! (4/9/2007 12:37 AM)

Wesss,
Keep us updated after you exchange or replace the e-kay hub with the e-lite hub.

Dave / Choppersrule
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
quote:

ORIGINAL: wesss

I watched the swashplate very carefully and without touching the left stick at all, I can use the right stick to move it up and down the shaft maybe 2-3mms of travel... This makes the rotor headset (part that holds the flybar) slide up and down on the center hub, which in turn changes the pitch of the blades. After the long weekend I'm heading back to the hobby shop to pick up some bell-hiller grips, this whole thing bothers me! [>:]

edit: another theory could be pretty plain and simple... my local hobby shop gave me an e-sky center hub/spindle set claiming it works on the e-flite helis... I'm going to go back and get myself an e-flite one as it looks quite different...




mrasmm -> RE: What Next....Looking Ahead! (4/9/2007 7:17 AM)

yeah.. the head on the esky is completely different than the eflite.. I would be supised if any parts fit other than the sheer pin flybar and paddles. I would definately go back and get an eflite one.



wesss -> RE: What Next....Looking Ahead! (4/14/2007 10:07 PM)

Ok here's the update... I switched back to the bell-hiller setup and the heli was much easier to control, despite a little bouncing here and there. I'm still using the e-sky center hub but swapped the spindle. The eflite spindle was about 4mm shorter, so that could've been a big problem. I bought the e-flite center hub but forgot to get the upper slider... Hopefully that'll make things even better. Thanks for all the help guys!



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