What Next....Looking Ahead! (Full Version)

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dkrob -> What Next....Looking Ahead! (3/28/2007 10:06 PM)

Been getting really comfortable with the Blade CX2 and was hoping to get a little input from some of you heli veterans or newbies who have advanced to there next helicopter.

A few I have been looking at are the Falcon 3D, Honey Bee King version 2, and the Eflite CP Pro.

Would like to get a little bigger helicopter that will handle flying outside in a little wind. One that gives you a little more visual response so you can fly it a little father from you and not lose orientation. Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.
Hover On!



BCKoots -> RE: What Next....Looking Ahead! (3/28/2007 11:10 PM)

My next heli will be the CP Pro. I will get some parts to downgrade it to just a CP until I get the hang of it.

It is cheaper to downgrade to a cp from a cp pro than it is to upgrade to a cp pro from a cp....(does that make sense?? lol)



choppersrule -> RE: What Next....Looking Ahead! (3/29/2007 1:15 AM)

Dkrob,

I agree with BCKoots, the CP Pro would be my next venture.. Most of your 300 size helis have faults, can't get around that. You can't expect a $300 or less, to perform like a $1,000 or more heli etc..

I've had the Falcon, you get alot for the money, however, most hobby shops don't carry parts for them, so your isolated to online ordering. Also, the parts for the Falcon are realitively expensive in comparison to the Pro.. Parts for the Pro are readily available at most hobby shops are are less expensive...The Pro is much easier to repair after a mishap/crash, we all do that.=)
Check out prices and compare the two.

Just food for thought, I see you're doing your homework and that's a good thing.

Dave / Choppersrule
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
quote:

ORIGINAL: dkrob

Been getting really comfortable with the Blade CX2 and was hoping to get a little input from some of you heli veterans or newbies who have advanced to there next helicopter.

A few I have been looking at are the Falcon 3D, Honey Bee King version 2, and the Eflite CP Pro.

Would like to get a little bigger helicopter that will handle flying outside in a little wind. One that gives you a little more visual response so you can fly it a little father from you and not lose orientation. Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.
Hover On!




dkrob -> RE: What Next....Looking Ahead! (3/29/2007 4:33 AM)

Will the CP Pro give me enough visual orientation when I would fly it farther out away from me? It just seems to be a smaller heli compared to the falcon.

I will have to settle with ordering my parts on the internet as our hobby store has very limited parts when needed. Also, is the CP Pro not a little twitchy? I have heard that comment from some on this forum.

Why I was looking at the Falcon 3D and the Honey Bee King is that Hobby Lobby has a 20% off sale until the end of March. Some pretty good deals, but only if they are good flying heli's.

How does the CP Pro fly and set up compared to the Blade CX2, is it a pretty big learning curve jump? And how does the Blade CP Pro handle a little wind?

Thanks Gentleman!



mrasmm -> RE: What Next....Looking Ahead! (3/29/2007 8:57 AM)

The jump from the CX2 to the CP model is quite a jump indeed. Very doable though if you take it slow and act like you are starting over and have never flown a heli before.

I think the CPP handles pretty well in the wind. Granted I have only hovered it, but I have hovered it in 5-7mph consistant with 15mph wind gusts and it seems to do quite well impo, but probably not as good as the bigger birds.

With the falcon and the honeybee king, mostly what I have heard is you get what you pay for. The falcon 3d has so many higher end parts (like a stock brushless motor for example), and is only $300, pretty much what you wind up with is a bunch of inferior parts. Not to say that you can't work with it and get it flying and enjoy it, but I have heard alot of falcon 3d people that wish they had gone another route. The only issue I know of with the honeybee king (not saying there aren't more, because there probably are), is the stock motor is deadfully underpowered and over heats and is prone to failure. So you would just need to upgrade that probably from the get go. The best thing to do is find someone who owns two or more of these heli's and see what they think. Choppersrule owns the CPP and the falcon 3d. From what I have heard him say he advises against the falcon 3d.

As for orienation, you can either custom paint your canopy with bright colors, different on each side. Or while you are learning you can paint the training balls different colors, or you can use the yellow canopy, but yeah you can't tell orentation as far out as the bigger birds. It's all relative though, If you take the size and divide it by the distance away to get a proportion of size vs distance, you'll find that pretty much all heli's are about the same, so this becomes a less important issue, unless you want to do something like wow-ing people with extreme aerobatics, or remote filming and you need to see it from a bigger distance.



dkrob -> RE: What Next....Looking Ahead! (3/29/2007 2:22 PM)

Thanks Choppersrul and mrasmm, the input is greatly appreciated. I will have to look into the CPP, does it have idle up and a lcoking head gyro? And how is the radio that comes with the CPP?

You heli boys (were all young at heart) and this forum really helps out us newbies. Last night I just re-painted my CX2 yellow and makes a world of difference with orientation.

Let the winds be calm!



FMB42 -> RE: What Next....Looking Ahead! (3/29/2007 3:45 PM)

I agree with the above posts and would consider going with a down graded CPP. I would also recommend that you keep the following in mind;

Sim
Setup (this is critical)
Practice
Patience

I'm sure that you already know the above, but I thought that I'd mention it anyway. As far as visual orientation goes, I do have problems with this while flying a Blade CP at 200 feet or so. Good luck and good flying!



dkrob -> RE: What Next....Looking Ahead! (3/29/2007 5:14 PM)

Being new to all this, can I ask what is meant as far as a down graded CPP? Have seen that mentioned a few times on the forum.
Hover On!



wick246 -> RE: What Next....Looking Ahead! (3/29/2007 6:40 PM)

On a down graded CP Pro they remove the Bell Hiller mixing arms and use the stock blade grips from the regular CP. The Bell Hiller mixing setup is very responsive but is also less stable and much more sensitive, making it harder for most.

Edit: Also the CP uses flat bottom blades and the Pro steps up to symmetrical. You can't fly sustained inverted with flat bottom blades but they produce more lift for a given speed / angle compaired to the symmetrical blades. I'm not sure which would fly better for you, there seem to be people that swear by both of them.



dkrob -> RE: What Next....Looking Ahead! (3/29/2007 7:31 PM)

Hi wick246, so does one have to purchase the stock blade grips that are used on the regular CP? Definitely want a little less response when I purchase and start flying. I will do some research on the blades and see what I find out.
Hover On!



wick246 -> RE: What Next....Looking Ahead! (3/29/2007 9:13 PM)

Yes you will need the CP blade grips. Here is the difference between the two...

http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=EFLH1162B

http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=EFLH1171



choppersrule -> RE: What Next....Looking Ahead! (3/29/2007 11:12 PM)

Dkrob,

Also, the Pro has the capability of upgrading to a brushless motor and a Head Holding gyro, which the CP doesn't. It's well worth the few extra bucks to downgrade the head assembley of a Pro. If you order online, order everything at once and save the shipping costs of an extra order.. If you go to the LHS and get them, don't let the LHS guru talk you out of it.. Tell, them there are 300,000 plus guys on RC Universe that said, to bug off(yuk-yuk).

Dave / Choppersrule
quote:

ORIGINAL: dkrob

Hi wick246, so does one have to purchase the stock blade grips that are used on the regular CP? Definitely want a little less response when I purchase and start flying. I will do some research on the blades and see what I find out.
Hover On!




dkrob -> RE: What Next....Looking Ahead! (3/30/2007 3:24 AM)

So I would need to change the blade grips as mentioned, yet can someone tell me what the Bell Hiller mixing arms are? Has anybody tried the plastic blades? I seen them in another forum, they look interesting and fairly unbreakable, great for us newbies!
Hover On



mrasmm -> RE: What Next....Looking Ahead! (3/30/2007 5:48 AM)

The blades I have on mine are plastic blades, and they work well for me. With plastic blades though you have to be careful of boom strikes, and also you need to do the paper clip mod so you don't bend the feathing shaft as easy, or break the blade grips. You also need to make sure that you have the blades tightened to the proper amount, too tight or too loose causes problems.

I've included 2 pics. The pic with the red on it is the bell hiller system, and the red is next to the additional parts. The other pic is of the regular hiller head that relies on the flybar instead of linkages to change the pitch (that's why it's slower and better for beginners, and will not do inverted flight).

The cp and the cpp both have idle up, and the cpp has adjustable throttle curves, and the ability to adjust the gain on the gyro remotely. HH gyro's are an add on, a drop in on the cpp, and extensive mods required on the cp.



dkrob -> RE: What Next....Looking Ahead! (3/30/2007 2:13 PM)

Thanks so much mrasmm, great pics and info for the beginner. Some questions from your reply, Boom strikes are when you hit the ground or something solid, correct? And I have not heard of the paper clip mod? And what is the correct tightness of the blades on the blase grips? Is it very difficult changing out the bell hiller system and what are the parts that need to be ordered to down grade, blade grips and the CP regular hiller head?

Would these blades work on the CPP, http://www.jcshobbies.com/?

Thanks again!
Hover On!



mrasmm -> RE: What Next....Looking Ahead! (3/30/2007 4:38 PM)

Yup, those will work. Actually the blades you see in the pic are those very blades =)

A boom strike is when the main blades hit the boom, and they can chop it off. Often times it comes from hitting the ground and causing flex in the boom, as well as a deflection in the rotors. It can also come from too extreme of cyclic movements.

Fortunately I just did a post on the paper clip mod, and it's available here
http://www.heli-max.net/mediawiki/index.php/Tips_Wiki_Paper_Clip_Mod

The blades should be tight enough so that you can tilt the chopper on it's side and they wont flop down, but just barely that tight. They should be pretty easy to move.

I would spin up the bell hiller head and see if you need to change it first. I learned on the bell hiller head, as alot of other people have done. If you need to change it, it's pretty easy, you just need a pair of pliers and two 1.5mm allen wrenches. be very careful to see which way the shims go on, where they go on, and what way they are facing, otherwise you will end up with a sticky collective problem.

All that needs to be ordered is the blade grips. When people talk about the head, they are refering to all of the parts that are there. The blade grips are just 2 of these parts.

Hopefully that should answer all of your q's

and BTW you're welcome =)



wesss -> RE: What Next....Looking Ahead! (3/30/2007 4:43 PM)

I just broke my blade grips on my cp pro and was considering the downgrade to the cp grips. Do I need to purchase the set of links that connect the blade grips to the flybar control?? Or would I be fine just buying the cp blade grips and using the linkage from the bell-hiller setup?



mrasmm -> RE: What Next....Looking Ahead! (3/30/2007 4:51 PM)

I would say that you could just reuse the links you have, and just get the blade grips.

This is what you should need
http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=EFLH1162B

and then just reuse all of the other parts, unless they are getting worn or are broken or something, then get new =)

Hope this helps =)



choppersrule -> RE: What Next....Looking Ahead! (3/30/2007 11:30 PM)

Mrasmm,

You stoled my trick[:D][:D], the paper clip mod, I've been using that for 8 or 9 months now, and it DOES WORK. The one thing your forgot, I use my dremel with a grinding wheel and sharpen one end of the paper clip to a point, like on a pencil.. It then goes into the rotor hub and threw the shaft very easy..(Small world isn't it) It was by accident, I had a hard hit and actually broke the original sheer pin, it was late, and the LHS was closed, in desperation, I tried the paper clip. I'd suggest all to use, unless you are doing some heavy duty 3D stuff.

Wesss and Dkrob,

If you decide to downgrade the bell-hiller grips to the stock CP grips, don't forget to order 6 bearing too, for those grips. Or optionally, remove the bearings from the bell-hiller and re-install in the stock grips. The bearings don't come with the grips, they are a seperate items.

Dave / Choppersrule
quote:

ORIGINAL: mrasmm

Fortunately I just did a post on the paper clip mod, and it's available here
http://www.heli-max.net/mediawiki/index.php/Tips_Wiki_Paper_Clip_Mod



[:D]



mrasmm -> RE: What Next....Looking Ahead! (3/31/2007 12:18 AM)

that's a good deal, I have that exact picture and I couldn't remember who the heck posted it =P so I couldn't tell people who deserved the credit. Anyways, good move with the paper clip, it works grrrrreat! lol


quote:

ORIGINAL: choppersrule

Mrasmm,

You stoled my trick[:D][:D], the paper clip mod, I've been using that for 8 or 9 months now, and it DOES WORK. The one thing your forgot, I use my dremel with a grinding wheel and sharpen one end of the paper clip to a point, like on a pencil.. It then goes into the rotor hub and threw the shaft very easy..(Small world isn't it) It was by accident, I had a hard hit and actually broke the original sheer pin, it was late, and the LHS was closed, in desperation, I tried the paper clip. I'd suggest all to use, unless you are doing some heavy duty 3D stuff.





choppersrule -> RE: What Next....Looking Ahead! (3/31/2007 12:52 AM)

Mrasmm,

You've stolen my pictures toooo,[:D][:D], LOL. That's what it's all about, helping each other..

Here's another trick you can STEAL (yuk-yuk). When installing bearing and spacer in a blade grip, put them on a jewelers screwdriver and just JAM them in. This works great to for noobs, easy and takes the frustration out of trying to do it without.

This OLD Brain never shuts off, got a problem I can come up with a fix. My wife always tells me I am KING of rigging something up to make it work.

Love your posts, keep up the excellent work,

Dave / Choppersrule


quote:

ORIGINAL: mrasmm

that's a good deal, I have that exact picture and I couldn't remember who the heck posted it =P so I couldn't tell people who deserved the credit. Anyways, good move with the paper clip, it works grrrrreat! lol


quote:

ORIGINAL: choppersrule

Mrasmm,

You stoled my trick[:D][:D], the paper clip mod, I've been using that for 8 or 9 months now, and it DOES WORK. The one thing your forgot, I use my dremel with a grinding wheel and sharpen one end of the paper clip to a point, like on a pencil.. It then goes into the rotor hub and threw the shaft very easy..(Small world isn't it) It was by accident, I had a hard hit and actually broke the original sheer pin, it was late, and the LHS was closed, in desperation, I tried the paper clip. I'd suggest all to use, unless you are doing some heavy duty 3D stuff.




[:D][:D]



mrasmm -> RE: What Next....Looking Ahead! (3/31/2007 2:37 AM)

hey, not a bad idea =) I'll have to "borrow" that one too [:D]



choppersrule -> RE: What Next....Looking Ahead! (3/31/2007 2:47 AM)

Mrasmm,

Go for the Gold, be my quest... Hmmmm, "Borrow" / "Steal" =).

Dave / Choppersrule

quote:

ORIGINAL: mrasmm

hey, not a bad idea =) I'll have to "borrow" that one too [:D]




dkrob -> RE: What Next....Looking Ahead! (3/31/2007 3:55 AM)

So appreciate all the tips and tricks and as choppersrule stated, it's all about helping each other. I just hope down the road as I advance my heli skills I can pass along some useful tips to other newbies. Choppersrule and mrasmm, again appreciate your input and your humor in sharing. And, any other tips and tricks would be greatly welcomed by all us newbies!
Hover On!



choppersrule -> RE: What Next....Looking Ahead! (3/31/2007 4:03 AM)

Dkrob,

Another useful tip,,, After you turn on the TX and plug in battey to the heli, always hold your thumb on the throttle stick so it's down. Helps so you don't bump it while placing the heli where you want before hovering/flying.
See picture,,

Mrasmm,
Yes, you can "Borrow this Too" =)

New guys can use all the help they can, I know I did,

Dave / Choppersrule
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
quote:

ORIGINAL: dkrob

So appreciate all the tips and tricks and as choppersrule stated, it's all about helping each other. I just hope down the road as I advance my heli skills I can pass along some useful tips to other newbies. Choppersrule and mrasmm, again appreciate your input and your humor in sharing. And, any other tips and tricks would be greatly welcomed by all us newbies!
Hover On!




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