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Ziroli Dauntless Project - 8/25/2003 6:21:36 PM   
NE0



Posts: 1170
Joined: 7/30/2002
From: Newark, OH, USA
Status: offline 		Jim,

Wow that's exciting stuff! CONGRATULATIONS on your first flight!!!

I take it you didn't have to add any nose ballast then? Did she slow down well for you on landing? Much flaps needed?

How's your finish holding up? Saw a scary post on using the Minwax for glassing today...

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=1074887&s=#1074887

Frugalflyer said his went south on him when he got it outside in the humidity?

Congrats again... keep the pics coming!

Neoo

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       Post #: 151

Ziroli Dauntless Project - 8/25/2003 7:35:30 PM   
Tmoth4



Posts: 1358
Joined: 3/14/2002
From: Brecksville, OH, USA
Status: offline 		Thanks, guys.
Neo,
I put a small piece of lead in the cowl but it didn't really need it. The final weight of the plane is 28 lbs. dry. It slows way down when you put the flaps down, mine go down about 30 degrees, and that's plenty. With the throttle set to around 1/3 for downwind and final, the plane looked almost in slow motion, but solid as a rock. It's no exaggeration to say it lands like a trainer. It probably lands EASIER than a trainer.
I have my Chipmunk glassed with Minwax WB poly and it's been fine for 2 seasons and all kinds of weather. My Nieuport has Minwax WB poly clearcoat over latex and it's been fine too.

< Message edited by Tmoth4 -- Aug 25 2003 2:57PM >

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       Post #: 152

Ziroli Dauntless Project - 8/25/2003 7:46:09 PM   
k_sonn



Posts: 1134
Joined: 2/15/2002
From: Bellevue, WA, USA
Status: offline 		Jim:

How does the SBD fly compared to your P-47?

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       Post #: 153

Ziroli Dauntless Project - 8/25/2003 8:11:11 PM   
NE0



Posts: 1170
Joined: 7/30/2002
From: Newark, OH, USA
Status: offline 		Jim,

Thanks for the response... that's a big help. So you don't need any flaps at all on takeoff 'eh? Did it have to roll out long and fast or jump up pretty quick?

I can't believe you're at 28 pounds! That's amazing. 'Course, you'll add a LITTLE weight back in when you do your cockpit, bomb & drop, gear doors, etc.. Are you doing the tailhook, trapeze, pitot tube, etc.?

Neo

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       Post #: 154

Ziroli Dauntless Project - 8/25/2003 8:52:02 PM   
Tmoth4



Posts: 1358
Joined: 3/14/2002
From: Brecksville, OH, USA
Status: offline 		Neo,
I applied throttle gradually and the tail came up pretty quick. Liftoff is in maybe 200'. It takes off like a normal plane, not abnormally long and not leaping off.

Ksonn,
The Dauntless is very stable and steady. I think it could fly hands off forever. The P47 is faster, more maneuverable, and has a faster roll rate, which makes sense, because one is a dive bomber and the other is a fighter. The P47 lands a little faster, but they both slow down nice when you flair out.

Jim

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       Post #: 155

Ziroli Dauntless Project - 8/25/2003 9:44:30 PM   
NE0



Posts: 1170
Joined: 7/30/2002
From: Newark, OH, USA
Status: offline 		Thanks Jim,

Wonder if I'll have to move my CG back too, since it's basically the same location with the difference in scale taken into consideration? Might not... my airfoil is a little different than yours, might be a slight difference in incidence too. I think I'll stick to the plans for first flights to be safe and move it from there if needed. Better to be noseheavy than tailheavy.

Neo

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       Post #: 156

Ziroli Dauntless Project - 8/26/2003 12:54:55 AM   
Tmoth4



Posts: 1358
Joined: 3/14/2002
From: Brecksville, OH, USA
Status: offline 		Neo,

From what you told me previously the balance point on your Bates plans is already farther back. I would go with that and not move it back any and see how it goes.

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       Post #: 157

Jim's SBD Dauntless...built, finished, FLOWN !!! Congr... - 8/26/2003 3:44:06 AM   
John Rood



Posts: 69
Joined: 8/1/2003
From: Boston, MA, USA
Status: offline 		Congratulations, Jim...

This whole thread here on your SBD project is pure inspiration, topped off now with images of the darn thing FLYING !!!

Fantastic work. Happy landings, and as they say, THANKS FOR SHARING ;-) !!!

John Rood
Boston, MA
USA

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       Post #: 158

Ziroli Dauntless Project - 8/26/2003 7:37:15 AM   
Tmoth4



Posts: 1358
Joined: 3/14/2002
From: Brecksville, OH, USA
Status: offline 		Thanks John! I'm glad you've been inspired. I say, The more giant warbirds out there, the better. This is the third Ziroli warbird I've built and they're all fantastic fliers.

Jim

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       Post #: 159

Bates Plan - 8/26/2003 8:15:06 AM   
BearcatPilot


 

Posts: 102
Joined: 8/24/2003
From: Lincoln, NE,
Status: offline 		Neo,
how did you like the Bates' plan? I was looking into both the Ziroli and Bates plans of the F8-F Bearcat, but decided I would rather go with the smaller Bates one. Did the pieces fit well and was there anything unusal about the constuction?
BTW, your site is great.

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       Post #: 160

SBD...... - 8/26/2003 5:41:43 PM   
warbirdz1


 

Posts: 578
Joined: 8/7/2002
From: Pembroke pines, FL, USA
Status: offline 		Jim.......Nice job on your new project.......good work generally ends up with a nice flying plane as you have shown here.......I have a number of the Ziroli planes.......4 of them up to now........and have found Nick makes the CG to the nose heavy side....which is better for initial test flights........I have moved the CG's back in all of my planes slightly( which means less nose weight too) ....with only slight difference in flt characteristics.......good luck with your new plane......Bill.....BearCat Pilot........I have a Ziroli BearCat kit patiently sitting on my workbench as my next project.......let us know how your BearCat is doing........Bill....

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       Post #: 161

Ziroli Dauntless Project - 8/26/2003 8:36:49 PM   
NE0



Posts: 1170
Joined: 7/30/2002
From: Newark, OH, USA
Status: offline 		BearcatPilot,

The best advice I can give you is to check my site in regards to my comments on the Bates plans. My experiences were different than what yours would be...

I bought my plans and laser cut wood from someone second hand here on RCU. When I got them I found them to be 10 years old and the fuse which he had already started building was crushed. Then, I found the laser cut parts for the wing (All American Kit Cutters) to be VERY poor. Basically, I ended up recutting about 80% or more of the whole plane myself by hand.

There were a few snafus in the Bates design that I had to modify as well. However, this was a 10 year old set of plans and they have changed radically since then. Jerry sent me the latest set of plans after I was nearly done building the plane, and I found that he had completely redesigned it. I think the new plans are MUCH better than the mine, and go together much more like the Ziroli plans.

The biggest difference with this design versus any 100" design is that it uses a one-piece wing. Personally, I like that, but some guys don't. If I were going to do a 100" plane, I'd probably go for the Ziroli plan, but if you want the smaller 85" airframe, you'll have to go with Bates. The new Bates plans are really nice though, so don't feel like that's a negative.

The smaller 85" version is really nice since you can transport and store it a lot easier... however, it makes it tough to find room for some of the internal components and hiding your engine in the cowl is VERY hard. If you don't build a full cockpit like I am, you'll have a lot more room inside the fuse, but with the deep, two-place cockpit... it's really tight inside.

Neo

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Ziroli Dauntless Project - 8/26/2003 9:16:46 PM   
k_sonn



Posts: 1134
Joined: 2/15/2002
From: Bellevue, WA, USA
Status: offline 		BearcatPilot:

I started building a Bates Hellcat last winter. Here is the link to the build thread: [URL=http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/tm.asp?m=363671]http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/tm.asp?m=363671[/URL]. I will be finishing it this fall/winter. The bates plans for the Hellcat are very straight forward. Most of the parts were a good fit. I chose the Bates Hellcat over the Ziroli Hellcat because the Bates Hellcat is much more scale than the Ziroli. If you haven't already found it, here is a link to a Bates Bearcat build thread: [URL=http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/tm.asp?m=651536]http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/tm.asp?m=651536[/URL]. If you have any questions about my experience thus far with the Bates plan, feel free to email me as I do not want to hi-jack Jim's thread..

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       Post #: 163

Ziroli Dauntless Project - 8/26/2003 11:58:09 PM   
NE0