RE: Club 40 - Rules / Mod discussion

RE: Club 40 - Rules / Mod discussion
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RE: Club 40 - Rules / Mod discussion - 4/17/2007 12:59:38 AM

DonStegall

Posts: 624
Joined: 8/8/2005
From: Monroe, NC, USA
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Did the Texas committee have a meeting at the race on 4-14-2007 and finalize the Club 40 Racing rules for your area?

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Don Stegall
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Post #: 76

RE: Club 40 - Rules / Mod discussion - 4/17/2007 1:20:47 AM

gunfighter

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From: Canyon Lake, TX, USA
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NO. Do to weather (25mph+ winds with gusts to 35) and other committments by some of the committee members, we did not have enough for a meeting.

We have a pretty good concensus though. I think Ken will post the rules soon.

Even with the winds, we had 20 pilots show up and we had a good race.

(in reply to DonStegall)

Post #: 77

RE: Club 40 - Rules / Mod discussion - 4/20/2007 5:30:05 AM

Ken Erickson

Posts: 307
Joined: 12/17/2005
From: Columbus, IN, USA
Status: offline

Just tried to load the html files from Paul Herman's NMPRA race program from our South-Central Texas Circuit Club 40 Race last Saturday. Not supported.

Will have the report written for the Newsletter soon and will try to post that.

Ken Erickson

Edited to say,"Sorry. wrong thread."

< Message edited by Ken Erickson -- 4/20/2007 5:31:13 AM >

(in reply to Ken Erickson)

Post #: 78

RE: Club 40 - Rules / Mod discussion - 5/4/2007 5:42:05 PM

DonStegall

Posts: 624
Joined: 8/8/2005
From: Monroe, NC, USA
Status: offline

Mufflers for Club 40 Gold Class

The AMA 428 Quickie 500 and AMA 422 Quarter 40 racers don't have to worry about mufflers coming apart because the Nelson and JETT mufflers are effectively one piece. Not literally, but the way they are made, they do not come apart.

Many of the sport .40 engines come with mufflers that tend to come apart unless steps are taken to keep them together. Some have baffles and others don't. In many cases the difference in performance is the muffler.

I have used the Macs Muffler O.S. .40-.46/TT .40, aka the Macs One Piece, and I love the no worries factor.

While they cost $35, they outlast most airplanes and engines. Unless the plane is lost, the muffler cost is minimal over the long haul.

I propose that this muffler be allowed in the Club 40 Gold (Advanced) class to make the planes even more fuss free.

Note that this is just a proposal, and not a recommendation.

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Don Stegall
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Post #: 79

RE: Club 40 - Rules / Mod discussion - 5/4/2007 5:57:51 PM

DHG

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From: Arvada, CO, USA
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Don,

Is that a tuned muffler, or does it just look like a tuned muffler?

A guy had one on a Sky Raider at our field the other day, and he'd buffed away the black coating to reveal a shiny silver finish. It looked really sharp.

Duane

(in reply to DonStegall)

Post #: 80

RE: Club 40 - Rules / Mod discussion - 5/4/2007 6:03:33 PM

DonStegall

Posts: 624
Joined: 8/8/2005
From: Monroe, NC, USA
Status: offline

Duane,

It is just a simple expansion muffler with no baffle.

No boost other than a little less backpressure than a baffled muffler.

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Post #: 81

RE: Club 40 - Rules / Mod discussion - 5/4/2007 8:09:21 PM

Oldbob

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Joined: 6/29/2005
From: georgetown, TX, USA
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That’s a tuned muffler and will produce a 400+ rpm increase just by bolting it on the engine.

Why don’t we just tell people how to keep there two piece mufflers from coming apart. Then they will also be “fuss free”. For the past ten years I have been using RTV silicon sealant. It will never come apart until you want it to, and then you have to use some muscle.

Bob

(in reply to DonStegall)

Post #: 82

RE: Club 40 - Rules / Mod discussion - 5/4/2007 8:38:40 PM

daven

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From: Andover, MN, USA
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That muffler is not tuned, we use to allow them in our OS racing. In fact I actually saw a decrease in RPM using that muffler.

Eventually, the OS and TT mufflers will come apart. If you happen to lose the back half over the bean field, your pretty much screwed. Some of the locals liked the idea of a one piece so we let them in, there is NO advantage. Several of us tested them with the same motor/plane/prop with the radar gun extensively. This goes back about 4-5 years, so unless somethings changed, I wouldn't see it as an issue.

Although, you will still have that ugly "perception" to deal with.

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Post #: 83

RE: Club 40 - Rules / Mod discussion - 5/4/2007 9:19:35 PM

gunfighter

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From: Canyon Lake, TX, USA
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AFAIAC - Once you open it up to "after market" mufflers you have opened up a whole new "can of worms". I would NOT recommend it, nor vote for it.

You can clean the two halves of the mufler with acetone or alcohol and JB weld it together as many in 424 do, you can even use bolts to help secure it, but it must be stock and have the baffle inside (If the engine originally came with one). At least that is the way the Texas group is dealing with it.

BTW - I am running 3 TT Pro 40's in club 40 and have NEVER had a muffler come loose. I do put loc-tite on the threads before I screw it together.

(in reply to daven)

Post #: 84

RE: Club 40 - Rules / Mod discussion - 5/4/2007 11:02:27 PM

DonStegall

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From: Monroe, NC, USA
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As Far As I Am Concerned, there are performance and parity issues with the range of engines being allowed anyway.

I have not tested the muffler on a wide range of engines, but in general it pretty much equalizes the sport .40 engines.

The benefit of having mufflers that do not come apart is in the spirit of making the class a simple and fun event. No baffles to check, no gluing mufflers together, etc.

As I said, this is a proposal, and this is a request for comments. So keep them coming.

My mufflers do not come apart because I pin them with four 4-40 x 1/4" socket head screws and I use PermaTex gasket maker that is good up to 700 degrees to hold them together. But I cringe every time I sell a new in the box TT Pro 40 engine to someone because I know that the muffler may come apart. I'm actually prepping engines and breaking them in for people so that they get a good start.

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Post #: 85

RE: Club 40 - Rules / Mod discussion - 5/4/2007 11:33:35 PM

gunfighter

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From: Canyon Lake, TX, USA
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quote:

there are performance and parity issues with the range of engines being allowed anyway.

I don't agree. We have had wins by: Super Tiger GS 40, GMS 40 and Thunder Tiger Pro 40 in Advanced class.

What better parity could we have?

To my knowledge, we have only had 1 muffler come apart at all our races combined. I really don't think this is as big an issue as you seem to think it is. Most pilots know of the possibility and take steps to avoid it.

(in reply to DonStegall)

Post #: 86

RE: Club 40 - Rules / Mod discussion - 5/5/2007 2:24:57 AM

dwbebens

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From: Dickson, TN, USA
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I fully agree with you Gunfighter. This aftermarket muffler issue is one of those "inchworm" type of rules deviations that we must strenuously guard against. There are many well known, very effective measures that prevent the stock mufflers from coming apart.

Doug Bebensee

(in reply to gunfighter)

Post #: 87

RE: Club 40 - Rules / Mod discussion - 5/5/2007 4:14:14 AM

DonStegall

Posts: 624
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From: Monroe, NC, USA
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Doug,

The OS .40 LA engine mufflers do not tend to come apart like the TT Pro 40 mufflers do. The rpm's are lower and the muffler seems to hold together. Plus you guys are using a single engine.

I simply tossed out the concept of a "Single Replacement Muffler" for discussion. No one needs to get all worked up about it.

Quite honestly, I have had doubts about my original recommendation to allow the LA Racer 40 in Club 40. I think that allowing a single airframe and single engine with very strict limitations like the Florida group is doing may be the best formula.

Has there been any discussion in the Florida group about having a faster class of Club 40? Just wondering.

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Post #: 88

RE: Club 40 - Rules / Mod discussion - 5/5/2007 1:38:48 PM

dwbebens

Posts: 207
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From: Dickson, TN, USA
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Don;

As for myself, I'm not getting all worked up. I'm just repeating my opinions concerning rules deviations. Someone, somewhere, can (and will) always come up with "reasons" for rule changes. Any one change in itself may not cause much problem, but once the "floodgates" are opened, then the event will morph into something beyond it's original intent and will no longer serve those for whom it was intended.

I've only seen one TT Pro 40 muffler actually come apart in the air during a race. The preventive remedies are well known.

I don't see any indication that the Florida Club group is concidering any kind of faster class or other airframe choices. Sure, there are a few minor things I'd like to see them do differently. But, I'm certainly not going to mess things up for them by agitating - - especially when things are going so well. If it ain't broke, don't fix it!

The Florida Club 40 group is having another race next Saturday, May 12, 2007, at the Rainbow RC Air Park at Dunnellon, FL, hosted by the Tri-County RC Club. Come join us if you can. I'm so looking forward to then.

Doug Bebensee

(in reply to DonStegall)